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'Rainbow Warrior Codex?'
*Clicks thread*
*Looks more carefully on phone screen*
*Clicks back*

+++
Bad jokes aside, this seems to be fairly reasonable to me. I think it's a bit sad that players seem to be so uninterested in the visuals and stuff beyond the game itself that they have to be coached on basic politeness to strangers, though :(

All these rules seem perfectly reasonable to me, I don't know what the fuss is about.

As for the 'no 3rd party stuff' - well, duh, Warhammer World is a game store and wants you to buy their stuff. I see this as no different than any of the FLGS saying don't use Death From the Skies at their events because you can't buy it at their store.

I actually hope the rest of the stuff does get written into the rules. Back in 3rd/4th ed, all the codexes had a line in them, "Remember that you cannot field models that are equipped with weapons and wargear that are not shown on the model."

 pretre wrote:

Denzark on the Bols Lounge wrote:
Just back from my latest foray into the GW tournament, Throne of Skulls. I thought you might like some information on the meta there, things I saw over the weekend, and a few rumours etc

Others included me being asked why my drop pod doors were glued shut - ummm because I don't like them flapping around, I can't be arsed to paint the insides and also because i was not aware the rules said a vehicle's doors must be modelled to open?

It is a cold day in Hell when Denzark criticizes Games Workshop. Games Workshop is pushing the tolerance of even its most diehard supporters.

Redbeard wrote:As for the 'no 3rd party stuff' - well, duh, Warhammer World is a game store and wants you to buy their stuff.

See, I did buy their stuff, though.

I just happen to think their stuff would look cooler with other people's stuff glued to it. Like a new Tau broadside with Paulson Games not-railguns glued to the back so that I have the newer, better-looking model but with the cooler silhouette of the old model.

Redbeard wrote:I see this as no different than any of the FLGS saying don't use Death From the Skies at their events because you can't buy it at their store.

Which a lot of people also complained about. I'd be surprised if very many stores still had that policy anymore, it was mainly one or two that made a big stink about it and got attention.

My store actually had a few copies of Death from the Skies for a while, so I know they didn't really care.

 CaulynDarr wrote:

I just hope independent stores don't pick it up as a guideline. The only thing that really keeps me in the game right now is all the third party options that help keep the game reasonably priced for me.

They won't, there's no reason and plenty reasons against.

Painted models: Reasonable - People who exploit 3 colors and based are a problem at painted events. One guy had an unpainted model at an Indy event which claimed to have painting and claimed "Plastic, metal and Greenstuff" was 3 colors. They let him play. Same event had a black landraider with a sticker on it also allowed.

No Proxies: Reasonable - A Landspeeder is not a Predator. It is not a clever conversion, it is not a cool 'Counts as' it fails rule of cool. It is someone turning starter box trash into 'coke can' proxies.

These have always been GWs rules and are supposedly the rules most Indy Events already claim to enforce but rude people show up and abuse the goodwill of a tourney and force unpainted or abusively modeled conversions or proxies on an event and people 'suck it up' Even I had someone claim 'this big shoota is a rokkit launcha' at NOVA and they have these very rules (painted, conversions need approval)

This is a non-issue. All Indy Events already have these requirements and they are reasonable ones. And no 3rd party stuff is a known thing for gaming on GW propertiah. Not going to lose sleep off corporate run events requiring corporate models to play. PP does this. Take the king's coin, do the king's bidding.

GW can make any kind of rule or policy with regards to how they want the game played -- and they can enforce that at any event they hold or sponsor. Which means it impacts only those people who play at warhammer world. I'm pretty sure that accounts for a whole 0.001% of 40k players. In other words: utterly meaningless. Meh.

I don't go to tournaments, so I don't care what silly little rules GW forces upon players.

But it seems to me people should be upset about this. Who is GW is judge what standard an army should be at? Even with the dumbed down tutorials, most people can't achieve the level of quality they do in their books.

And why should GW be making rulings about converted models and paint schemes? It seems to me this is a hobby, people should be able to do what they want. Tournaments are supposed to be a way to capture the best aspects of the community, not the most technically proficient or the most adherent to arbitrary rules.

Alabaster.clown wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
That's cool, but how do they expect to enforce these new policies? There is one GW event still running, and the rest of the tournaments have their own policy.

The next edition of the rules will introduce this "Warrior's Code" into the core of the game, inseparable from the mechanics, including a caveat that specific armies can only be painted in official colour schemes and any conversions (of which an available model already exists) must have prior written authorization from GW.
Any 3rd party tournament that wishes to include 40k will have to abide by these new rules or face C&D letters quickly followed by expensive legal proceedings.

That's how they will enforce these new policies.

And people will moan and complain, and a few will quit the hobby, but the majority will bow and submit just like they always have.

Not likely. The Warrior's Code thing is strictly a set of rules for participating in events at Warhammer World.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I don't go to tournaments, so I don't care what silly little rules GW forces upon players.

But it seems to me people should be upset about this. Who is GW is judge what standard an army should be at? Even with the dumbed down tutorials, most people can't achieve the level of quality they do in their books.

And why should GW be making rulings about converted models and paint schemes? It seems to me this is a hobby, people should be able to do what they want. Tournaments are supposed to be a way to capture the best aspects of the community, not the most technically proficient or the most adherent to arbitrary rules.

Because conversions can hurt how the game is played, both in interacting with rule mechanics and giving people unfair advantages/disadvantages. Not being able to quickly and easily tell what wargear a model has is a big issue in a timed competative event, especially if only one side has to fumble around with paper and constantly ask 'what is that supposed to be' and the other side doesn't.

Your outrage is misplaced as *ALL MAJOR INDY EVENTS HAVE ALMOST THE EXACT SAME REQUIREMENTS*. Unfair conversions, unclear proxies, unpainted models are not allowed in most event's tourney packets. Almost all those events ask for conversions to be 'pre-approved'.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I don't go to tournaments...

And why should GW be making rulings about converted models and paint schemes?....

The rules now, as ever, say you need to use GW models (not a new restriction, but one they enforce with discretion) and essentially ask you to be considerate to the other player. Nowhere does it ban converted models outright - as mentioned, we've played under these rules using lots of custom stuff.

I know - asking you to be considerate is an outrageous infringement of your liberty. Life is so hard sometimes.


Here, incidentally, are the old rules:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3010062a_Throne_of_Skulls_Rules2013.pdf

Again: Are there any GW tournaments left except the one in Nottingham's Warhammer World?
I thought GW axed them all.

So basically, Denzark's Warrior's Code rumor is Partially True. The core is true but his interpretations (no counts-as paints or models, drop pod doors, etc) are suspect.

I'd say - most of that is ok - pretty much just defining how people already play or expect at a tournament. There are quite a few hidden gems in there though - like the majority of the "incomplete" models section. Most of the examples given seem specifically designed to stop people from creatively stretching out kits and saving money so the section reads like an obvious cash grab - not something that reinforces the hobby.

Gdubz Warrior Code wrote:Here are some examples of incomplete
miniatures:
• One Mangler Squig on a base (even if you
strap a smaller Squig to it with a chain – it’s
not the same model!)
• Two Scarabs on a swarm base (it’s not really
a swarm if there are only two, is it?)
...
• An arm on the floor representing a Skeleton
(it’s not been fully raised boss, honest!)
...

1) Chopping the ridiculously overpriced, oversized, mangler squig in half and making two models is the most obvious thing to do with it and still completely obvious what the unit is if modeled converted correctly.

2) 2 insects = what is this model? I am so confused
4 insects = OMG a horrifying swarm!!

3) If the whole unit was like this - yes, it's a problem. A gravestone with an arm and a skull should be fine for those skeletons you summon and then just die again 2 seconds later.

The other examples they gave fall more under WYSIWIG - ie. A DP with flight needs wings and a 2 person space marine bike needs a side car.

Updated first post with the new info.

Well IF I ever find my self in the Uk Ill be sure to pack all the correct minis to go play a game at GW's world HQ this way I dont tick off Matt Ward.


EDIT:

Rule 10: Major conversions approved by us

Rule 1: All minis must be made by GW/FW/WF

This should also apply to ANYTHING GW posts on thier web page. I can't tell you how many times an army has been posted with converted land speeders using monster truck tires from Hot Wheels. I know cause I sell those same monster trucks.

FWIW, I heard from someone at the company years ago that production issues were what was holding back plastic Thunderhawks. Which I suppose is a somewhat obvious and not overly insightful comment. Still...this does more or less jibe with what I heard.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There are proxies and there are counts-as. Using your fully painted squat army as Imperial Guard is a counts-as army. Using a shoebox or a borrowed space marine landspeeder to stand in for an Eldar Grav tank is a proxy. One is cool, the other isn't.

Exactly. We all know the kind of behavior they're trying to eliminate with this.

And regarding the Warrior's Rules overall, I think it's appropriate and even obvious that Warhammer World would be quite strict about various model-related issues. You're playing the game on company grounds, folks.

Interestingly enough no FW in their official document. Muhahaha.

Also, they clearly cover what the difference between counts-as and proxy is in their doc. The original rumor is bunk.

The rules are almost no different that days long past. They are also similar to indy events in a lot of regards. The only hitch is no 3rd party stuff, which is expected. The only way they could enforce it or rather try to, is to not support events with prize support, assuming of course that they do.

As for the plastic Thunderhawk. If it is true, I would have a fleet of them

I find people turning one kit into two like mangler squigs a perfectly reasonable thing to say incomplete models. I also think under-swarmed Swarms is not going to pass 'rule of cool' and is done purely for financial reasons.

If that is how it is, I can just only assemble half a model and double my army size.

nkelsch wrote:
A Landspeeder is not a Predator. It is not a clever conversion, it is not a cool 'Counts as' it fails rule of cool. It is someone turning starter box trash into 'coke can' proxies.

It may well have been an excellent conversion that fitted in perfectly with the rest of the army. Writing off conversions unseen is not a very clever thing to do.

 pretre wrote:
So basically, Denzark's Warrior's Code rumor is Partially True. The core is true but his interpretations (no counts-as paints or models, drop pod doors, etc) are suspect.

You might want to add that the Warrior's Code is only for Warhammer World events too, as that part about it being their rules for -everything- was blantantly false.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Palindrome wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
A Landspeeder is not a Predator. It is not a clever conversion, it is not a cool 'Counts as' it fails rule of cool. It is someone turning starter box trash into 'coke can' proxies.

It may well have been an excellent conversion that fitted in perfectly with the rest of the army. Writing off conversions unseen is not a very clever thing to do.

Which is why you show it to them in person or via email with pictures and a full explination ahead of time. That's just common sense.

 Palindrome wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
A Landspeeder is not a Predator. It is not a clever conversion, it is not a cool 'Counts as' it fails rule of cool. It is someone turning starter box trash into 'coke can' proxies.

It may well have been an excellent conversion that fitted in perfectly with the rest of the army. Writing off conversions unseen is not a very clever thing to do.

In an army where you have access to a landspeeder, even a converted landspeeder is probably best used as a landspeeder. It fails 'counts as' because there is probably a more appropriate set of rules or unit slot which can be used and they are just shoe-horning models for personal advantage. This is back to the 'everymarine' army using 'bikes' as TWC even though space wolves have access to bikes.

If someone wants to argue it meets 'rule of cool' then provide a photos. The description fails 'rule of cool'.

I got to chime in on this one. As a person who spent Thousands literly on GW products and had a professional modeler do my paint on approx 70% of my army's to date. It is foolish for GW to do this. I used infernus pistols for certain models even though my army list has melta guns on it because it made the model look better. Also because i did have a professional modeler do mine as well as paint i have certain things done so that they can fit in my army case with out breaking off. Arms cut shorter ect. and re molded and painted you cannot even tell it was done without a micrometer. Also there are people with armies in progress that are assembled primed or in some various state. I agree with the total proxy rule one thing being another coke can or a total different model being used in place of another. But my pro painted sang priests 2 with jump packs 2 without i should not have to de-bond them if i need one with a different load out. Even though my army looks great i do not expect or demand anyone that i play against have the same care or detail. .'m just happy most weeks to play a game or 2. Hell it would devastate new customers to be told yes you can spend hundreds on your army assemble them but no you cannot play till you have them all painted? It takes weeks do make a nice squads assembled painted everything. It is getting new customers into the game by showing them what their army can be by bringing out old customers like me that spent and still do that keeps the game alive. Cause lets face it GW is a 1 time purchase unless new models are brought out. You Buy your army finish it boom that is it or you do it for another but mainly that is a 1-2 army style for the player.

Side note anyone who goes well magnetize your models. On Vehicles or large pieces yes it works great. But on the small troops it always mis-aligns the paint pattern or causes problems. But to date i have NEVER seen a GW Magnet for any model nor is there any from their website and it is mentioned in the rule book even. So those of you that say well you should, I can go BUT it is not GW and that point is a custom model using non GW parts and the fact they can pick and choose is flat out crap. At that piont they can go let me see your army and go well your army as a whole does not look great we are so not allowing it.

Last point- IF someone your playing against has a nicely painted rhino and wants to use it a a razor back and has all the correct stats/load out printed out for it would you let them use it ? If they had a partially done razor in their army box that is a work in progress, Then? I would just based on the fact they own the model. I would not even care if it was still in the box.

Fireraven wrote:
I got to chime in on this one. As a person who spent Thousands literly on GW products and had a professional modeler do my paint on approx 70% of my army's to date. It is foolish for GW to do this.

I think you're missing the point. Also, GW isn't doing anything. This guy is alleging that GW is doing something and they weren't.

I used infernus pistols for certain models even though my army list has melta guns on it because it made the model look better.

As long as you're not playing BA, this could be counts-as. If you're playing BA, it is confusing. If you have NO infernus pistols in your entire army, it might be acceptable but is still confusing to your opponent and an example of bad counts-as. I.e. Some melta guns look like this, but some melta guns look like this. That's bad counts-as. All melta guns should be recognizably the same.

Arms cut shorter ect. and re molded and painted you cannot even tell it was done without a micrometer. Also there are people with armies in progress that are assembled primed or in some various state.

Neither the rumor nor the code for WW prohibits this.

But my pro painted sang priests 2 with jump packs 2 without i should not have to de-bond them if i need one with a different load out.

Umm, yeah you should. Or magnetize them or have different models. This has nothing to do with GW or the rumor. If you are playing a completely different model (model with jump pack) as another one (model without jump pack), that's proxying. Which is completely cool at casual events but not at pretty much any tournament (GW or otherwise).

Side note anyone who goes well magnetize your models. On Vehicles or large pieces yes it works great. But on the small troops it always mis-aligns the paint pattern or causes problems.

You obviously haven't seen good magnetization. There is no reason it should be misaligned.

Last point- IF someone your playing against has a nicely painted rhino and wants to use it a a razor back and has all the correct stats/load out printed out for it would you let them use it ?

Casually? Yes. At an event? No. You should have the models on the table that are in your list (or an appropriate counts-as). Would you let them play a shoe box as a land raider if they showed that they owned a land raider?

Fireraven, I really don't get what you're say. I see a lot of words but you never state a clear point on anything that makes sense.

These rules are only for people playing in events at Warhammer World. How is it foolish they have rules to make sure that they limit, of not eliminate, as many arguements as possible before hand?

EDIT: I hate posting from tablet. Typos...typos everywhere.

nkelsch wrote:
I find people turning one kit into two like mangler squigs a perfectly reasonable thing to say incomplete models.

Except, no.
If they have gone to the trouble of modeling on another squig attached by a chain it should be an acceptable conversion. Specifically calling it out in the doc is purely to drive sales of a powerful, overpriced model that just happens to be very easy to split in half.
If they didn't model on a second squig it would "technically" fall under wysiwig or conversions.

nkelsch wrote:
I also think under-swarmed Swarms is not going to pass 'rule of cool' and is done purely for financial reasons.

If that is how it is, I can just only assemble half a model and double my army size.

Ahhh yeah - that was the whole point.

There is a big difference between putting 3 insects on a base instead of a whole whopping 4 in order to squeeze out a few extra swarms to save some cash and saying "Herp Derp I'm going to chop all my space marines in half and have twice the army!"

But in any case I echo the sentiments of those reminding that these are rules for a once a year event that I wouldn't attend even if I lived in that country - meaning I give exactly 0 feths - except to mock it briefly for it's fart-in-windstorm level potency.

nkelsch wrote:
I find people turning one kit into two like mangler squigs a perfectly reasonable thing to say incomplete models. I also think under-swarmed Swarms is not going to pass 'rule of cool' and is done purely for financial reasons.

What's wrong with trying to save some money whilst having no noticeable impact on the identification of your toy soldiers?

If that is how it is, I can just only assemble half a model and double my army size.

That's not really the same thing, is it? No-one is talking about fielding squads of half models, just reducing the number of models on a multi-figure base. The models are still complete and identifiable, the base is the same, there's just less models on it.

The fight to legalize Chaos Dwarfs just took a hit.

 Red Viper wrote:
The fight to legalize Chaos Dwarfs just took a hit.

For the three people who play at WW.