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Wraiths are still probably better off with the destroyer lord I'd wager; Preferred Enemy is better since it lets you re-roll failed hit and wound rolls of 1 too.

Still, the thought of adding a your vehicle-HQ hybrid to a group of anything else sounds both hilarious and a good idea to try out.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
Given the fact that Ever Living works on the CCB and that roll can be modified by a Piece of wargear on the Ol (Rez Orb), I do not see why the Phase Shifter would not also effect the entire model.

As for joining units as a IC on a Chariot, they are considered one unit and thus benefit from both the Vehicle (Chariot) rules and the IC rules.

So Wraiths and CCB and a DL or Spyders/Scarabs and a CCB for giggles.

They changed the rule for what Independent Characters can join. An IC can't join a unit that contains a vehicle or MC, so you can't join Sypders, and currently it is unknown if you can join by having your CCB join a group last to try and side step the rule.

I would say no on that, hopefully we will get a definitive answer from GW soon.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
Given the fact that Ever Living works on the CCB and that roll can be modified by a Piece of wargear on the Ol (Rez Orb), I do not see why the Phase Shifter would not also effect the entire model.

As for joining units as a IC on a Chariot, they are considered one unit and thus benefit from both the Vehicle (Chariot) rules and the IC rules.

So Wraiths and CCB and a DL or Spyders/Scarabs and a CCB for giggles.

My god, CCB Wraith units. It not only improves the DLord Wraith combo, it opens up the RC for competitive play.

Ninja'd on that. Guess it doesn't work. Sad

what have y'all done!? two of my main opponents are cron players....

I'm calling in the black ships!!

The same thing as you'd do to handle what is essentially a death-star? field one of your own or stay out of it's way. It's a whole lot of points tied up in not so very many wounds/hull points.

In this case you'll need strength 8 fire in bulk it reliably handle it (which is pretty rare), or get into close combat with a melee death-star of your own (a bit more common/likely)

i agree, i think its great, i can't wait to tell them about it.

does this idea swing the other way??

khorne/tzeentch/slaanesh herald in thier respective chariots joining a unit from their god? bloodcrushers, screamers, fiends?

If they have the IC rule and they are not joining another IC, Vehicle, or MC, yes.

giggity

Where do you get the info from that an Overlord on a chariot is unit type Chariot (Character)? As far as I can see, the unit type is Chariot and it therefore cannot join any other units, on top of vehicles not being allowed to join units.

The "always treated as one model" rule wouldn't fit here as unit types cannot be shared and even if it did, it would conflict with there being two different unit types.

Is it in the new rulebook that a character with dedicated transport chariot becomes unit type chariot?

I haven't got my rule book yet. If it is not specified, seems open to different interpretation. Is it character/chariot/both?


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Is o'vesa listed as monstrous creature, independant character or both? I can't think of a vehicle+character example.


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It will suffer from the same problem of o'vesa cannot join any unit interpretation.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Where do you get the info from that an Overlord on a chariot is unit type Chariot (Character)? As far as I can see, the unit type is Chariot and it therefore cannot join any other units, on top of vehicles not being allowed to join units.

The "always treated as one model" rule wouldn't fit here as unit types cannot be shared and even if it did, it would conflict with there being two different unit types.

Vehicles/Chariots can't join other units because they (used to) lack the Independent Character special rule, not because of their type innately.

The Independent Character rules don't make any distinction between unit types. The only thing it says is that the IC can't join vehicles/MC himself.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Where do you get the info from that an Overlord on a chariot is unit type Chariot (Character)? As far as I can see, the unit type is Chariot and it therefore cannot join any other units, on top of vehicles not being allowed to join units.

The "always treated as one model" rule wouldn't fit here as unit types cannot be shared and even if it did, it would conflict with there being two different unit types.

You dont need to have unit type (character), just the IC special rule, which the overlord-model has, and presumably so does the combined model given nothing indicates this special rule is lost.

The question is what unit type the CCB has. According to the FAQ, it's Vehicle (Chariot) and it doesn't mention Individual Character. I don't see it gaining that rule from anywhere either as a CCB must be taken with a IC. You might argue that the Chariot gets it because of the "always treated as one model" ruling, but that seems really far-fetched. Hm.

Guess that's what happens if you don't playtest rules.

It's because the rules tell us that it's a single model with 2 profiles (1 for the 'vehicle', 1 for he 'character).

You can't just say the rules for the character don't apply.

I'm just trying to see both sides of this. I'd love to get my CCB some additional protection.

How would one compute the process of firing at a unit with a CCB in, though? Presumably you use majority toughness, and then the game implodes because you can't allocate wounds to a vehicle? IDK...

Even if the unit type of the Necron Overlord + CCB is in fact just 'chariot', it is still a model with the Independent Character USR; which confers the ability to leave and join units. (and a bunch of other stuff)

Joining him to units is fun but it does create some situations. If joined to a unit of tomb blades, can the bikes turbo boost and the chariot move flat out, as long as they are in coherence? And will coherence be 2 or 4 inches? It does make me wonder if gw has thought this out.


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Wound allocation is still doable, since you do the same thing with vehicle squadrons.

 milkboy wrote:
Joining him to units is fun but it does create some situations. If joined to a unit of tomb blades, can the bikes turbo boost and the chariot move flat out, as long as they are in coherence? And will coherence be 2 or 4 inches? It does make me wonder if gw has thought this out.


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Wound allocation is still doable, since you do the same thing with vehicle squadrons.

Except with vehicle squadrons everything is damaged in the same way...
With this you end up rolling to wound against an un-woundable model, or rolling to penetrate against a model with wounds...

Tactical_Genius wrote:
How would one compute the process of firing at a unit with a CCB in, though? Presumably you use majority toughness, and then the game implodes because you can't allocate wounds to a vehicle? IDK...

The model has a toughness characteristic, so you can use that just fine. That said when firing at a chariot unit you have to split up all your shots based on their effects after hitting, but before rolling to wound. At that point the chariot controlling player decides wether or not he wants them to hit the chariot or it's rider and you resolve the effects from there.

Essentially a chariot (and/or it's rider) soaks up 'all' the fire until such time as it is no longer in the unit.

Where the rules get a bit more funky is wether or not a unit is considered to be a chariot unit if only some (most probably one) of the models it is comprised of are chariots.

 Neorealist wrote:
Where the rules get a bit more funky is wether or not a unit is considered to be a chariot unit if only some (most probably one) of the models it is comprised of are chariots.

Yeah this is where my question was getting towards, really.

Mixed Units have always had problems related to them....
Personally; if the Unit contains even a single Model of the Unit Type in question then it will trigger any Restriction related to that Unit Type.

JinxDragon wrote:
Mixed Units have always had problems related to them....
Personally; if the Unit contains even a single Model of the Unit Type in question then it will trigger any Restriction related to that Unit Type.

Seems like the easiest way to play it. Although, that does make any unit with a chariot tanker entirely immune to small arms...

Tactical_Genius wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Mixed Units have always had problems related to them....
Personally; if the Unit contains even a single Model of the Unit Type in question then it will trigger any Restriction related to that Unit Type.

Seems like the easiest way to play it. Although, that does make any unit with a chariot tanker entirely immune to small arms...

Wraiths with a CCB. I rest my case.

 milkboy wrote:
And will coherence be 2 or 4 inches?

2", as per the IC rules. If the IC is more than 2" away then he has left the unit.

Tactical Genius,
Not the first combination to do so, Void Shields shattered that benchmark a long time ago, but this time the 'immune to small arms' might not be intentional.
Does remind me to finish building that list with six Void Shields, the last test I did using the 'One Blast = One Hit' Rule was very informative as it rendered the army immune to damage for two to three turns against an enemy that could table them in two without.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Mixed Units have always had problems related to them....
Personally; if the Unit contains even a single Model of the Unit Type in question then it will trigger any Restriction related to that Unit Type.

Seems like the easiest way to play it. Although, that does make any unit with a chariot tanker entirely immune to small arms...

If it is the closest model, wouldn't firing your melta/plasma first be the priority of choice? It's similar to how marines get transported in rhinos. While in rhinos, they are immune to small arms as well.

If I were to play this I would most likely put the wraiths/tomb blades in front to protect my chariot from meltas.

RivenSkull wrote:
You simply had a question earlier as to how the math of adding +1 to a 5++ does not equal a 6++, which is in fact a worse probability.

Why yes - yes it is! I already knew that, of course, but congratulations on figuring it out!

Now, I'll go a little slower this time because obviously my point flew right over your head last time.
We have rules for Armor Saves on how they're modified - when you get +1 to your AS, your target number goes down.
Please, cite the rule that allows the same for invul saves.


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 Shandara wrote:
It's because the rules tell us that it's a single model with 2 profiles (1 for the 'vehicle', 1 for he 'character).

You can't just say the rules for the character don't apply.

You can, actually.

In addition to its characteristics profile, each model will have a unit type, such as Infantry or Monstrous Creature, which we discuss in the Unit Types section. It might also have an additional save of some kind, representing any special armour or mystical protection it might have, it could be carrying one or more shooting or Melee weapons or might have one or more special rules.

A Chariot is an unusual unit with a dual profile – a non-vehicle profile for the rider of the Chariot (see below), and a vehicle profile for the Chariot itself.

While they're 1 model, there's 2 profiles. The profiles include a model's special rules, any wargear, and unit type.

So their wargear is entirely separate, as dictated by the chariot rules.

Could actually be a good way to tank for desroyers if you want to go shooty. Cheaper CCB too. Still quite a lot of points for 15 st5 ap3 shots.
Would the overlord still get LOS?

MilkBoy,
The Rule creates an interrupt within the Shooting sequences being resolved against Chariots. This interrupt requires us to allocate the Hit's being generated to either the Rider or the Chariot, allowing the Defending Player to allocate to whom would have the better chance of surviving. This normally will not create any issues as the only Model in the Unit, but these Rules do not just vanish when that Model manages to gain access to the Independent Character Special Rule. Now we have a Rule that must be evoked when Attacks are resolved against the Chariot, yet no method telling us how to determine if an Attack is being resolved against any individual Model until it is too late to do Hit Allocation like required.

In theory;
The Chariot doesn't even need to be the closest model, but that could be used against the Chariot's owner as well so firing the anti-light vehicle weapons first is a must.