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 HawaiiMatt wrote:
How bad is the new Culexus really?
It's not that hard to move out of range before the psychic phase, and then still go invisible. I'm thinking storm raven is about the only usable method of delivery. It's just not that hard to kill this guy, who has to get point blank and doesn't want to be in combat.
I really like the no cover save S10 shot. It's like GW is saying we're sorry about that whole waveserpent thing.

It still shuts downs the psychic power affect when it gets in range. So in movement phase you get in range with culexus, stop the invisilibty effect and shoot it to bits in shooting phase .

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yep, right around 13 if my numbers are right.

*opens bitzbox*

This should be hilarious

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
How bad is the new Culexus really?
It's not that hard to move out of range before the psychic phase, and then still go invisible. I'm thinking storm raven is about the only usable method of delivery. It's just not that hard to kill this guy, who has to get point blank and doesn't want to be in combat.
I really like the no cover save S10 shot. It's like GW is saying we're sorry about that whole waveserpent thing.

From what I've read on here, if the Culexus gets close enough he cancels out Psychic buffs as well as preventing powers from being cast. So if you move a unit away from him then make them invisible, he can move up after them (run if he needs to) and cancel out the invisibility before the rest of his army shoots at you.

Kangodo wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
if you end up not playing against a psyker army, hes pretty lacklaster.

How so?
Even against non-Psykers he has a 18", S5 AP1 and Assault 3 weapon.
He still attacks at I7 with AP1 and a chance for Instant Death.
And you still have to fight/shoot at him with WS/BS1.

I think of him as a good unit that becomes insane when you fight against Psykers.
Seeing as my next battle is against Daemons, Grey Knights and Eldar I will probably get him before that day

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Are the assassins still unique?

Sadly: No.

Im not saying hes bad.

He does have an 18" str5 ap 1 gun, but its 0 shots base, you have to put WC into it to get 1-3 shots, which oddly does give you something to do with the WC on your psychic turn if you have no psykers, but otherwise is taking away WC you could use for your psykers. If you are putting your own psykers near him to give him more shots, your losing their WC, and they then manifest on 6s, meaning your probably not putting psykers near him to feed him more shots as 1 shot for 1 ML is pretty situational. The gun is 18" so anything he is shooting at, is firing back and or assaulting if the cullexus is not assaulting.


Firing on him at WS1/BS1 is not that big of a deal, its like having to snapshot but better because you can still fire templates/blasts at him. a 4++ is nice but im guessing he has no other armor, and probably still only as toughness 4 2 wounds. So anything str 8 or higher is IDing him. Any unit that fires on him needs on average 48 shots to kill him if they wound on 4+. If twin linked/or rerolls that number changes to 24 shots. A 10 man dark eldar unit with splinter rifles/splinter with splinter racks in a raider will on average gun him down in 1 go, 24+ork boyz with shootas will on average gun him down in 1 go shooting or overwatch, devgaunts pewpewpewpew. some armies also have access to things like signums which can set your BS to 5, so if you fired say a devestator with a lascannon at him, you could choose the order things are applied and apply the BS1, then the BS5 (since its not snap shots only) and then fire a lascannon/krak missile and have a 37% chance to instagib the culexus. Tau can burn ML tokens to up the BS from 1, of course tau tend to have no psykers so having them fire at the assassin is probably good as its deterring them from shooting other things..

Of course devestator squads are rare, so thats not a big deal.

the cullexus has no assault weapons so has 4 attacks base, 5 on the charge. against non psykers your looking at causing on average 1-2 wounds on the charge, not exactly great. Hitting back at WS1 is a lot easier than shooting at BS1, and shooting at BS1 is not that bad.

I think its a good unit, and a lot better than it was, I just think for a TAC kind of list you are better off taking a different assassin.

if I played a deathstar psyker army, or summoing army, or anything that relied on psykers I would be scared of this guy existing or even possibly showing up. Its not that he would be around all game, but psyker deathstars rely on the sweet warm baby swaddling of invisibility and all their other buffs to be effective, losing that for even 1 turn can turn the battle critically against them.

I for one look forward to seeing assassins in the game, as anything that changes the meta brings freshness to the game.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
How bad is the new Culexus really?
It's not that hard to move out of range before the psychic phase, and then still go invisible. I'm thinking storm raven is about the only usable method of delivery. It's just not that hard to kill this guy, who has to get point blank and doesn't want to be in combat.
I really like the no cover save S10 shot. It's like GW is saying we're sorry about that whole waveserpent thing.

It still shuts downs the psychic power affect when it gets in range. So in movement phase you get in range with culexus, stop the invisilibty effect and shoot it to bits in shooting phase .

It's a counter alright. But the culexus is vunerable to shooting. Even if you need 6s to hit, one krak missile can end his day. A bunch of bolters will do the same thing. So you have to keep him out of LOS in the opponents turn and then run him up in your turn to take advantage of the bubble.

 Wilson wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Can anyone help me with this please?

I downloaded the preview. Read it. Then paid £9.99 for the dataslate. When I downloaded the dataslate and opened it - it now just has the preview pages avaliable... What's happened?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can anyone help me with this please?

I downloaded the preview. Read it. Then paid £9.99 for the dataslate. When I downloaded the dataslate and opened it - it now just has the preview pages avaliable... What's happened?

if you've paid for it, just delete it and download it again. should fix the issue.

Thanks - all sorted! Turns out it wasn't uploading from my downloads so was just opening the preview again (previous file viewed), sorted it by uploading direct from my memory card. Cheers for the reply though!

I tried out the callidus and eversor assassins in a game of eldar and marines against orks and dark angels and I have to say that both were awsome and well worth their points.

The callidus stopped ravenwing bikers from scouting very far as well as flaming two black knights turn one and on turn two she flamed a combat squad of bikers with sammael and killed two as well as putting a wound on sammael. She then charged him and got two sixes for two wound that ignoringed both armour and invul and dropping him for slay the warlord and bonus victory point from command benefit. And the minus to reserve also kept a outflanking battlewagon with mega armoured big mek and 6 meganobs out of the game for an extra turn.

The eversor infiltrated behind a wall first turn before jumping out turn two and destroying a unit of about 10 burnas in close combat with the help of a dreadnought to soak the overwatch. He then proved surprisingly resilient with 4+ invul and FnP by only taking two wounds from 20 boyz with shootas. Although these then charged him and he killed 3 with overwatch and 2 in close combat before explding and doing 11 wounds to the unit.

When turn three came about the orks and angels were so mauled that they surrendered so I didn't get to try them out further.

Why are you tactical geniuses thinking of running him out in the open like some sort of chump? Just fly him around in the new FOTM (Flyer of the Month) Stormwolf and debuff at leisure.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Why are you tactical geniuses thinking of running him out in the open like some sort of chump?

I said no such thing

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Why are you tactical geniuses thinking of running him out in the open like some sort of chump? Just fly him around in the new FOTM (Flyer of the Month) Stormwolf and debuff at leisure.

You are than paying a hell lot of points for something that is basically an anti-psyker beacon with wings, that still dies very fast when targeted by meaningful AA.
I mean, the guys who care the most are eldar, demons and nids.
Eldar gotta have some way to drop flyers-not sure how, but I bet they do. demons and nids just take their FMCs and vector it to death.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Why are you tactical geniuses thinking of running him out in the open like some sort of chump? Just fly him around in the new FOTM (Flyer of the Month) Stormwolf and debuff at leisure.

You are than paying a hell lot of points for something that is basically an anti-psyker beacon with wings, that still dies very fast when targeted by meaningful AA.
I mean, the guys who care the most are eldar, demons and nids.
Eldar gotta have some way to drop flyers-not sure how, but I bet they do. demons and nids just take their FMCs and vector it to death.

lol, do you have some sort of RSS feed every time somebody mentions a tactical genius on Dakka?

If you've played competitive 40k in any capacity at all you will realise the top tables are always dominated by some form of psychic Deathstar. 140 points to hard-counter shenanigans like that will make him a MUST TAKE the way every list includes Coteaz and 3 servo skulls. Many of these deathstars have to come to you as well (Seer Council, Beast Star, Grav Star) so flying isn't even strictly necessary.

The Stormwolf is a 12/12/12 flyer with ceramite playing, so it's up there with the Stormraven with one of the hardest flyers to kill- not to mention it outguns the Stormraven. Vector strikes/FMCs have been nerfed to heck, by the way, and no serious tournament player uses FMCs. The Stormraven, in any case, can stand-off and just shoot them to death with twin-linked multi melta, lascannon, and helfrost destructor since it outranges them by a fair bit.

Also Assasins come stock with Infiltrate, so you can just hide him in some convenient nook near the enemy's psykers and pop out at the opportune moment.

Even when facing a non-psyker army, he remains a ridiculously hard to kill unit that pulls its weight in far excess of any effort the enemy should conceivably spend into killing him. Sure, you can burn your template weapons on him, it just means that you're not shooting other, more threatening units in his army.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
lol, do you have some sort of RSS feed every time somebody mentions a tactical genius on Dakka?

I just outflank myself into any thread that mentions it

Even when facing a non-psyker army, he remains a ridiculously hard to kill unit that pulls its weight in far excess of any effort the enemy should conceivably spend into killing him. Sure, you can burn your template weapons on him, it just means that you're not shooting other, more threatening units in his army.

Actually, I think a couple wyverns could drop him pretty much anywhere on the board. They don't care about the BS nerf between twin-linked and barrage. 75% chance per template to put a wound on him, 50% chance for it t get past his invuln, you're looking at a little less than 3 templates on him per wound from a 48" range unit that doesn't need LoS to fire. Incidentally, they also play the role of taking out annoying heavy/special weapons, sgts. etc far better than the Vindecare. Granted the downside is you can't just slap in a couple wyverns without taking some additional guardsmen.

I don't think any of these guys are game breaking unless you're a better tactician than your opponent or he's relying on a one-trick army whose one trick your assassin is a hard counter for (in which case he deserves to lose for bringing an unbalanced army).

Just to clarify on the Culexus, the special rule that nerf attacks against him is
Etherium: Whenever enemy units target a Culexus Assassin with shooting or close combat attacks, the shots/attacks are always resolved as if the attacking unit had Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill 1.

As i read it, all the signums and markerlights in the galaxy won't help. Unless its a six your not hitting him. Also all assassins have 3 wounds.
Personally while I think these guy might shake thing up abit I don't see them being broken. They are all vulnerable to ID with T4 across the board. They're just another tool in the shed for tactically and a good opportunity to do some nifty kitbashes. I'm thinking a hulking berserker with some skaven tech bits for the Eversor.

You are correct, "fixed" values are applied AFTER modifier like markerlights and signums.

That's why a gun drone has better aim than even a vindi when targeting the cule.


Asmodai Asmodean-I do not reveal my secrets, I've got my ways.
As for FMCs, many armies still feature them, be the the screamerstar or the skyblight armies, and while VS was nerfed against ground targets, its actually better than 6th against air targets now.
Now, while that tactic has its values, be assured that every army that relies on psykers will bothe coming up with an answer to the cule, or simply shift out of the meta.


Assassins regulate themselves, as if they become dominant, the very things they counter phase off meta and render the assassin ineffective.

I'm not convinced by these guys from what I've read. They are still only one model with three wounds which can be instant killed if needed. If they present that much of a threat to your army you will get rid of them whether they are in a flyer, Landraider or bastion.

If they do shake up the meta then great!

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:


no serious tournament player uses FMCs.

Aha. Like all those guys doing so well after day one at the BAO incling jy2 and all the FMC players at the ETC. They just can't possibly be taken seriously!

Mavnas wrote:

Even when facing a non-psyker army, he remains a ridiculously hard to kill unit that pulls its weight in far excess of any effort the enemy should conceivably spend into killing him. Sure, you can burn your template weapons on him, it just means that you're not shooting other, more threatening units in his army.

Actually, I think a couple wyverns could drop him pretty much anywhere on the board. They don't care about the BS nerf between twin-linked and barrage. 75% chance per template to put a wound on him, 50% chance for it t get past his invuln, you're looking at a little less than 3 templates on him per wound from a 48" range unit that doesn't need LoS to fire. Incidentally, they also play the role of taking out annoying heavy/special weapons, sgts. etc far better than the Vindecare. Granted the downside is you can't just slap in a couple wyverns without taking some additional guardsmen.

I don't think any of these guys are game breaking unless you're a better tactician than your opponent or he's relying on a one-trick army whose one trick your assassin is a hard counter for (in which case he deserves to lose for bringing an unbalanced army).

This last codex seems to have turned the Grey Knights into a one-trick army. All of the variations I played in 6th are void, because they relied on either Psyflemen, or PAGK's with Psycannons. Our only options now are assault as soon as possible, bring as many Dreadknights as you can, and bring allies if you want to do anything else.

And remember, these guys (and gal) were just now plucked out of the Grey Knight Codex.

It's interesting that in the new GK codex that rhinos and razorbacks are fast attack choices, which can also be taken as dedicated transports.

The non-dedicated bit is what I like. Turn 1, I can start with my vindicare(s), inside non-dedicated transport rhinos, firing out of the top.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
It's interesting that in the new GK codex that rhinos and razorbacks are fast attack choices, which can also be taken as dedicated transports.

The non-dedicated bit is what I like. Turn 1, I can start with my vindicare(s), inside non-dedicated transport rhinos, firing out of the top.

-Matt

Or better yet, Culexus in a drop pod. Hey daemons/seer councils.

My sisters are very very pleased!
Points for the 4 formation?

canadianguy wrote:
My sisters are very very pleased!
Points for the 4 formation?

Its whatever the 4 assassin cost.

Another interesting change is that no more 6+ FNP for anyone except the eversor who gets the standard FNP which seems pretty appropriate.

I have my fingers crossed that the culexus' debuff bubble is what the Shadow in the Warp will look like in the next Nid dex.
I know I'm probably dreaming, but can you imagine if they actually un-fecked the nid dex...It would make them actually competative!!

Which is funny because I have faced a lot of competative nid armies(given they had two+ flying hive tyrants) but there are a few builds that work.

Oh, I know that nids can be competative...I placed equal 3rd in a tourney just yesterday...It's just that they are completely outclassed by top tier armies like eldar and tau (and yesterday annihilator barrage/doom scythe spam). I prefer playing any kind of game on the hard setting-i'd just like to be able to turn it down sometimes

Its all in the name man, I already worked in the culexus assassin into my tournament list. Now I just need to wait on tournament rulings.

question here

Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule.

if I read this thing RAW, it means every shot that vindicare fires have a 1/6 chance of pick someone out at your will, since 7th BRB do have a USR of precision shots

or did I miss something..?

 sqrt4 wrote:
question here

Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule.

if I read this thing RAW, it means every shot that vindicare fires have a 1/6 chance of pick someone out at your will, since 7th BRB do have a USR of precision shots

or did I miss something..?

You seem to be reading it right. So this guy is a lot less potent than people originally read him to be. It looks like the great IC Apocalypse will not happen.

Edit: It's odd though, Sniper already carries the Precision Shots special rule. So as written, Deadshot does nothing.

This seems to be a case of bad rule-writing. The roll of 6 is hard-coded into the Precision Shots USR, so when Deadshot re-applies it, the roll of 6 is still being required.

In order to function like the 5th edition Vindicare, Deadshot should read "All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, are resolved as rolls of 6 with regards to the Precision Shots special rule." Or something like that.

Not really, rolling a D6 only applies when a model with that rule rolls To Hit.
In this case the successful To Hit-rolls have that rule.
Since it's not a model with this rule, we should continue to look at the second part of the rule and that tells us to allocate all Wounds.

Note the precision shots special rule. The first paragraph states that a model with this special rule has precision shots when it rolls a 6 to hit.

By the text, the Vindicare does not have this special rule - it's the shot itself that has the rule. Therefore, the first paragraph is not relevant to the text, as the shot has the rule thanks to 'all successful to-hit rolls have the precision shots special rule'.

The second paragraph is what would then apply in this case, which basically means the Vindicare allocates freely.

Poor rules writing at its best. Exists to confuse people. I bet the game guy who named the Gun Emplacement with <Weapon> and Emplaced <Weapon> back in 6e did this naming schema.

EDIT: 5 am on the internet