Continuing Rumors of WHFB 9th (Post-End Times) in Early Summer 2015

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**Strombones**

My personal theory was that the end times was meant to spike whfb sales while setting up a new world where smaller model counts would be needed....ie.....because massive armies had wiped each other out.

Smaller model count and revamped rules = lower entry barrier and new interest in the system?

This is a pretty bold rumor though. Im leaning toward false but I must admit it has me thinking.

**Baragash**

Mr. Burning wrote:
Limited time releases prevent 3rd party manufacturers gaining traction.

How so...? If sets are limited release 3rd party manufacturers can make money with alternate models for OOP kits.

There's no way I'm getting involved in Warhammer: The Gathering if this is true, and I'm only interested in WHF as a mass battle game.

**angelofvengeance**

Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

**Darnok**

Backfire wrote:
There have been similar rumours about WHFB every time a new edition is forthcoming. So I am not holding my breath.

I've been following WHF since 5th edition, and there never were "similar rumours about WHFB" to this before late last summer.

**Howard A Treesong**

Sounds a bit mad. I can see GW scrapping Fantasy as it's too generic and sales appear to be weaker than for 40K. Due to the huge costs of Fantasy, there are lots of people playing it with Mantic or Perry miniatures which GW also dislike.

I can certainly see Fantasy being scrapped and a new game introduced on circular bases which is much closer to 40k in style. They would also reimagine all the armies so that they become more distinct/unique and less generic, also expect everything being renamed, all to reinforce the all important IP.

It could just be rubbish though, it sounds a very drastic move and GW are quite risk averse.

**Strombones**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

I've been wondering the same thing!

**Warhams-77**

Welcome Darnok

With all the financial trouble GW has lately and what made them do what they did with 40k and 7th edition, it is not unlikely they will drastically change WFB

LOTR/Hobbit is dead already

**Fango**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

No one ever expects THE INQUISITION!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Sounds a bit mad. I can see GW scrapping Fantasy as it's too generic and sales appear to be weaker than for 40K. Due to the huge costs of Fantasy, there are lots of people playing it with Mantic or Perry miniatures which GW also dislike.

I can certainly see Fantasy being scrapped and a new game introduced on circular bases which is much closer to 40k in style. They would also reimagine all the armies so that they become more distinct/unique and less generic, also expect everything being renamed, all to reinforce the all important IP.

It could just be rubbish though, it sounds a very drastic move and GW are quite risk averse.

I seem to recall Rackham doing something similar with their Confrontation/Ragnarok game...basically ending the games as their fan's knew it, changing to round bases, then releasing small units of pre-painted figs (I know GW are not doing this bit, but they may be dumping a large part of their range according to this rumor).

I seem to recall Rackham going bankrupt and closing their doors shortly after that bad decision.... I know GW wont die if they kill off Fantasy as we know it, but I certainly don't think it will do them any good.

**Tamereth**

So this rumour is basically that GW are canning fantasy and releasing a totally different game that has almost nothing in common with WFB.

I'll stick to playing WFB with what I've got already.

Why don't they just slow down released on WFB and launch a new game, see how that goes. Canning one of their game systems, when they only have 3 is crazy stupid. What if the new game flops, then what. With the LOTR pretty much guaranteed to disappear next year they are going to end up with nothing but 40K, and 40K 7th edition doesn't seem to have done them any favours.

I don't won't to believe this, but then I can't underestimate the Kirby factor.

**triplegrim**

lord_blackfang wrote:

It will incur the same wrath from the vets as dropping Fantasy entirely would have, without the benefits on saving production capacity for something better.

The vets already have their armies, and doesnt buy much new, in my experience. In any GW store i visited, people are playing 40k or even hobbit/lotr, because the fantasy boys have been going at it in their homes, having established terrain and everything there since they have been doing the hobby for such a long time.

**Ehsteve**

A lot of the stuff in there is just a rehash of Harry's rumours from back in September with just some extra detail inserted. As much as I disliked those rumours he does have a stellar accuracy rating apart from some timeline issues.

I however am hopeful that they don't completely nuke the fantasy world.

**triplegrim**

I dont really play warmachine, but I cant help but think that what these rumors points at is comewhat closer to WM.

Units which come with rules on cards, can be implemented in "factions" (recalling the mercenary faction of wm) and much fewer armies, and perhaps fewer units.

**Azreal13**

Strombones wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

I've been wondering the same thing!

One day he just... stopped posting.

**Darnok**

Azreal13 wrote:
Strombones wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

I've been wondering the same thing!

One day he just... stopped posting.

Did somebody try to contact him? Such behaviour is... worrying.

**pretre**

It may have been involuntary.

**lord_blackfang**

His Master's Voice wrote:
No.

GW may be stupid, but they're not THAT stupid.

That's what I used to say in these sort of threads too... but they keep proving me wrong.

**Ghaz**

Darnok wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Strombones wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the heck happened to Kroothawk?

I've been wondering the same thing!

One day he just... stopped posting.

Did somebody try to contact him? Such behaviour is... worrying.

Kroot's last post on Dakka was May 5th of last year.

**Sigvatr**

Round bases. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN. 300+ Goblin models.

**Darnok**

I think it is a good sign that I'm more worried about a random person not posting for eight months than GW scrapping a whole wargames range. I hope he's well.

**Warhams-77**

Is Harry confirming the 'new wfb human faction' in the warseer topic?

Harry

Quote Originally Posted by Poncho160 View Post
Months and months and months ago, early last year some time, Harry (I think ) wrote that their would be a new faction for fantasy that they would be the equivalent of 40ks space marines.

I hate it when that happens.

Quote Originally Posted by Regulator View Post
The mankind will be one army together. Meaning the Empire and the Bretonians become the "survivors". Good luck with that!

Chaos V's "Humans" ...

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different&p=7349524&viewfull=1#post7349524

**Triszin**

So is it safe to assume, If this turns out to be true, that this is a trial run for 40k. And then 2016 will be the reset of 40k, and the advancement of the timeline.?

Lots of people will be very angry, rightly so, bu with GW's Prices I don't see it surviving. If they did this and also did a massive pricedrop? yeah I could see people accepting it. But current prices and having to rebuy entire armies, and buy limited dlc for armies is asinine.

edit:
Trial run could've been the special imperial guard limited release?

**Azreal13**

pretre wrote:
It may have been involuntary.

It wasn't, RiTides confirmed in another thread just recently that there's no reason from Dakka's end that he couldn't.

People just disappear. Zweischnied is another who's disappeared, not only from here but also his own blog and Twitter (all on the same day too.)

Statistically I guess we may lose one person every now and then to something tragic, but, personally I think it's more likely just life taking over, or, and this happens fairly often, they've just reinvented themselves with a new username and account to divorce themselves from any associations they may have accumulated.

OT

I'm not actually that phased by this, indeed, done well it may actually bring me into the game, but if the constant assumption that WHFB has been dying for years, why not do something radical to shake it up?

Too early and too few details to panic/get excited just yet.

**Warhams-77**

More from Harry on Warseer recollecting what he had posted during the last years about the topic

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different&p=7349621&viewfull=1#post7349621

**ImAGeek**

Triszin wrote:
So is it safe to assume, If this turns out to be true, that this is a trial run for 40k. And then 2016 will be the reset of 40k, and the advancement of the timeline.?

Lots of people will be very angry, rightly so, bu with GW's Prices I don't see it surviving. If they did this and also did a massive pricedrop? yeah I could see people accepting it. But current prices and having to rebuy entire armies, and buy limited dlc for armies is asinine.

edit:
Trial run could've been the special imperial guard limited release?

I think 40k is safe. From what I gather, this is all because Fantasy isn't doing very well.

**migooo**

These rumours seem depressing. Unfortunately this I can believe, it saves more space for space marines.

**Ozymandias**

Warhams-77 wrote:
More from Harry on Warseer recollecting what he had posted during the last years about the topic

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different&p=7349621&viewfull=1#post7349621

For the lazy:

Harry wrote:About six months .... but i first heard about ita good six months before I posted that.
Sometimes it is not all that cryptic .....

I tried to find some of my old posts about this. i have posted about this 6 months, 12 months and 18 months ago. But many of my recent posts have been deleted.???

In the end I had to go find some of what I had said on BOLS Forum where Big red had quoted me from here. (Thanks Red)

OK, here's one for you .....

Chaos Vs "Humans".

Quote Originally Posted by Tozudos a Dieces:
I've just read The fall of Altdorf.

OMG.

At least fluff-wise, nothing's gonna be again the same. It all will change. All.

Harry: You are not wrong there fella. That is what I have been saying.

Quote Originally Posted by Ludaman:
Awesome! Thanks Harry! I may be way off, but that sounds like the contents of a new starter Box to me.

Harry: We have been playing this game together for too many years.

Big Red: So first up, Harry called the End Times and Glottkin by name over 6 months out. So when he says something, you should take it as much more serious than garden variety rumors.

This insinuation of new boxed sets and unified "Human" factions all feeds back into Harry's earlier speculation on GW utterly shattering the game with the End Times series, to produce a very different environment and game on the other side of the series.

After months of absence, the BEST rumormonger out there returns to talk about the End Times of Warhammer Fantasy:

Harry's BACK from the wilderness!

Harry: You may remember last year I was being very vague about some 'radical changes' in a thread about 9th edition.

Back at the start of the year, in one of my first posts of the new year I said this:

I don't think they are trying to destroy it.
I suspect they will be trying their hardest to breath new life into it.
We are not seeing the "End times" for Warhammer just yet.

Did you see what I did there?
The clues are always there fellas.

So I first heard about all this last autumn?
I was told 2014 would be "Year zero" for Warhammer.

Had no idea what that meant at first but if you Google your way to the wikipedia you get this:

The term Year Zero, applied to the takeover of Cambodia in April 1975 by the Khmer Rouge, is an analogy to the Year One of the French Revolutionary Calendar. During the French Revolution, after the abolition of the French monarchy (September 20, 1792), the National Convention instituted a new calendar and declared the beginning of the Year I. The Khmer Rouge takeover of Phnom Penh was rapidly followed by a series of drastic revolutionary de-industrialization policies resulting in a death toll that vastly exceeded that of the French Reign of Terror.

The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is deemed largely irrelevant, as it will (as an ideal) be purged and replaced from the ground up.

It was made clear to me that this was what we were talking about for warhammer.
Everything that existed being completely destroyed (or discarded) and something new replacing it from scratch ... purged and replaced from the ground up.

I hinted in various posts that they would be getting rid of the existing timeline, the existing map, etc. (In an effort to soften the blow. )

I am going to get this a bit wrong because I honestly can't remember where I heard it but to confirm the three book rumour .... I did hear the "End times" were going to be spread over three books.

Nagash was the first, followed by Malekith followed by Glotkin

Good luck with that!

...You have to ask yourself .... What will remain of the world as we know it when it has been ravaged in turn by the Undead, the Dark Elves, Skaven, and Chaos?

...Whatever 9th is it will be set in the grimmest, darkest post apocalyptic Warhammer fantasy world yet.

You think I haven't had all the same thoughts being voiced on here?

I can't see them throwing out everything they have done either ... but the only way to own the IP is to loose all the generic Fantasy that other companies can copy ... normal Dwarves, Elves and sure as heck you have to get rid of the historical based human armies ... or you can go build an Empire or Bretonnian army from anyone's miniatures.
I can't see them getting rid of any armies either ... but they can not continue to support all of them so some of them have to go or some get mashed together.
I can't see them wanting to reduce the number of minis you need .... but if it costs too much to complete an army people don't even start an army ...so is it better to sell some minis for a scaled down game or no minis? Is it better to ramp up the Lords and monsters allowance and keep on selling the big kits so an army is 'more tanks and less infantry' and thus less minis and easier to paint .... or sell no minis.
Simple fact is so many people have so many armies now unless they do something drastic with the look of the armies no-one is buying enough minis. The only way to force folks to buy new stuff is if we cannot use our current stuff. Some folks may refuse to buy the new stuff on principal ..... what do they care? They were not buying the stuff anyway as they already had their army. Imagine how badly Fantasy must be selling compared to 40K if anyone even thought about knocking it on the head for even a moment .... they must be thinking .... it can't make things any worse!!! What have we got to loose??? But if they are doing this why even bother completing 8th edition? Why do all the books?

I have been around and around with this in my head ..... the only thing that makes any sense to me at the end of the day is that 8th edition is complete enough and robust enough to endure a bit longer and 9th edition will not be a complete new edition of the rules .... but an alternative background and rules with which to play post End times battles but you still need the core rules to play A bit like all the stuff in Strom of Magic was an add on to the existing rules. The core rules and books will still exist for those that want to remain stuck in the timeline but if you want to be down with the cool kids you really need to buy the new post End Times stuff.

I don't know what else I can add to this.
I don't have all the answers.

But for what its worth .... I think it will be round bases.
First said that on here more than 18 months ago .... when someone guessed very close to the mark about WFB becoming a skirmish game.

**H.B.M.C.**

Azreal13 wrote:
People just disappear.

Like me. I disappeared months ago. Does anyone know where I am?

**Azreal13**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
People just disappear.

Like me. I disappeared months ago. Does anyone know where I am?

We know exactly where you are..

**Warhams-77**

Thanks, Ozy. It is all in Harry's post, the why, the when and whats the concept for the future of WFB (according to what he has heard ofc)

**Tannhauser42**

Azreal13 wrote:

I'm not actually that phased by this, indeed, done well it may actually bring me into the game, but if the constant assumption that WHFB has been dying for years, why not do something radical to shake it up?

It vaguely reminds me of WotC and D&D 4th Edition's Forgotten Realms setting. As I recall, they advanced the timeline, had a big war among the gods, had the "missing twin planet" appear and merge with the original, all so they could shoehorn in all the shiny new 4th Edition stuff and make the setting shiny and new to match the modern fantasy style.

Of course, GW might want to learn a lesson from 4th Edition D&D with this supposed new WHFB: don't just ditch the old edition entirely or some other company might come along and pick up all those players who preferred it over the "new hotness." Because, as Paizo did with Pathfinder, so could Mantic do with Kings of War.