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 BrotherGecko wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It really doesn't. It still averages less then 1.8ish wounds. The GA averages 1.2ish wounds. So not really significant.

That's 1.5 times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To continue playing Devil's Advocate, the Barge also has a turreted weapon, meaning that it doesn't have to position itself in specific ways to fire and can shoot when immobilized.

With the very recent Jink nerf, the AB has become even less worthwhile.

 Sigvatr wrote:
With the very recent Jink nerf, the AB has become even less worthwhile.

What jink nerf?

Immobilised skimmers can no longer jink.

Well, at least it makes sense.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Well, at least it makes sense.

Like bikes being able to jink after not moving.

 Byte wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Well, at least it makes sense.

Like bikes being able to jink after not moving.

They drove in a cirlce? Burned rubber to make a smoke screen? Ha, I don't know there's a bunch of silly stuff that would occur from the rules if you really tried to picture it all.

To be fair, though, Jinking while being immobilized would make sense. As stated in the BRB, immobilised might just mean that the skimmer could not be able to move to another spot, but still hover around in the spot, thus allowing for a swift turn to the left or right and thus dodging stuff.

 Sigvatr wrote:
To be fair, though, Jinking while being immobilized would make sense. As stated in the BRB, immobilised might just mean that the skimmer could not be able to move to another spot, but still hover around in the spot, thus allowing for a swift turn to the left or right and thus dodging stuff.

So the bikes sit there and perform matrix like dodging maneuvers.

Alcibiades wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It really doesn't. It still averages less then 1.8ish wounds. The GA averages 1.2ish wounds. So not really significant.

That's 1.5 times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To continue playing Devil's Advocate, the Barge also has a turreted weapon, meaning that it doesn't have to position itself in specific ways to fire and can shoot when immobilized.

To be fair the gun doesn't move nor is designed to thus by RAW it is hull mounted and not a turret.

Pretty sure you are wrong there and it really IS a turret...

Otherwise my necron friend has unknowingly cheated for years XD

BRB says its gotta move or was designed to move to be a turret. It does neither so I think he made a mistake lol.

I think theyre AWESOME an everyone should own 6.


BtW: check out my sale thread. I think I can supply one person with 6. lol

 BoomWolf wrote:
Pretty sure you are wrong there and it really IS a turret...

Otherwise my necron friend has unknowingly cheated for years XD

My barge isn't glued, because it can easily serve in either configuration without needing glue to hold it in place.

Gun is still totally locked forwards when placed in.

It looks like a turret to me.

GW could just, like, designate some weapons as "turrets."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's actually generally the point of having one main weapon on top and a secondary weapon in the front.

Alcibiades wrote:
It looks like a turret to me.

GW could just, like, designate some weapons as "turrets."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's actually generally the point of having one main weapon on top and a secondary weapon in the front.

To both I agree. The rules however are clearish on how it all works.

I have no idea why they stopped declaring what a weapon is in their respective rules but they did. In its place they left us with, "does it or doesn't it move?". Which some interpret as an imagination concept as oppose it a literal concept.

You can however run the interpretation that all vehicle weapons are turrets/hull mounted as each unit doesn't declare what its weapons are.

Just remember to build all your guns so they can swivel

lol Well that would mean all my gauss flayer arrays can both target the same thing.

Actually it seems like as long as a weapon can rotate it can see its target. No weapon is given a specific type of firing arc any more, so its feasible as long as you converted it to move I would say by RAW you're in the clear.

Except the RAW doesn't cover converting models (or even assembling them for that matter)...

Right and it only covers the proccess to determine LOS.

Vehicles no longer have rules to show where a weapons placement even is. Other then the actual kit its self.

As a side note. If you do not glue the Ghost Ark or Doomsday Arks gauss arrays inplace they can swivel around and point to the opposite side. Adding in the allowed 45° up\down from the barrel and you can get both flayer arrays to shoot the same target lol. No modifications to the model and it uses the RAW on weapon movements.

One of the reasons annibarge is not as good as before is that the tesla-nerf actually means it lost range. I used to move my barges 12" and snap shoot quite often if nothing was within 30" and it worked most of the time (we've all seen the math on old tesla and snap shots).

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage. Too bad wave serpents are still floating around...

 MLKTH wrote:

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage.

I don't anyone is saying it's garbage, it's just probably the worst way to spend 120 points in the new codex.

I mean, sure if we try hard enough, we may find a few, specific, situations where it's better than say half a dozen Tomb Blades, in an unbound, or CAD.

Remember too, in a Decurion, you can't even field one by itself. You need to field 2 A-Barges with a Doomsday Ark. A formation where the Abarges sit out range of everything while you strip them of their Quantum Shielding to keep the Doomsday Ark's shielding up. See, for 240 points, 2 A-barges can be useful for something that nothing else in the codex can do. You know, unless you just run the Doomsday ark in a CAD, or Mephrit Dynasty FOC, and save 70 points and just run 2 Doomsday Arks.

Or perhaps an Obelisk?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

This exactly. The points increase would have been okay. The tesla nerf would have been worse but still okay. Both together? My Barges will be doing CCB duty or gathering dust on the shelf .

 adamsouza wrote:

 MLKTH wrote:

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage.

I don't anyone is saying it's garbage, it's just probably the worst way to spend 120 points in the new codex.

I mean, sure if we try hard enough, we may find a few, specific, situations where it's better than say half a dozen Tomb Blades, in an unbound, or CAD.

Remember too, in a Decurion, you can't even field one by itself. You need to field 2 A-Barges with a Doomsday Ark. A formation where the Abarges sit out range of everything while you strip them of their Quantum Shielding to keep the Doomsday Ark's shielding up. See, for 240 points, 2 A-barges can be useful for something that nothing else in the codex can do. You know, unless you just run the Doomsday ark in a CAD, or Mephrit Dynasty FOC, and save 70 points and just run 2 Doomsday Arks.

Eeem...who said they have to sit with the ark? its a formation, but not an armored spearhead (AFAIK)

To use the Quantum Deflection rule the Annihilation Barge must be within 6" of the Doomsday Ark.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Eeem...who said they have to sit with the ark? its a formation, but not an armored spearhead (AFAIK)

You sit near each other to get the benefit from the formation.

Not seeing much value in that formation, though. Your AB would just spend the game sitting next to a DA while rarely being able to shoot at things due to the limited range. I'd take a second DA over the formation anytime.

The points increase was valid, and makes sense. In its previous version the thing was an auto-take, it was so good.

Now, however, the nerf to tesla snap shots is a massive nerf to its efficiency in AA, while jinking, and a host of other situations.
I'm not sure what to do with mine anymore.

It's still a good solid unit with lots of fire power.