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Catskills in NYS

The tau XV109 Y'vahra might do rather well. It's pretty tough, very mobile, and it's plasma flamer will ignore their armour and save, and has a 6" torrent to extend the range. Also has another 3 shots with the ionic discarge cannon at 12", which ignore armour and blind them, if you then want to charge and attack them.

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For orks flash gitz might come in handy. It a lot of S5 shots and half the time you ignore armor and they can take a battle wagon as a transport.

Deff koptas with twin rokkits are almost just as fast, have 4+ armor and 2 wounds.

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I'm a bit dissapointed with the range of their snazguns but they are essentially Nobz with 2 wounds each. They look amazing and I'm certainly going to pick up some for painting but as soon as they lose the mobility of their transport I fear those bikes will have no issue staying out of range while still being able to reach them with their own guns.

Deff Koptas are Orks version of jetbikes. I'm juggling the idea of getting them or buggies. Hard to say. Maybe/probably both.
   
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I might have missed it, but was there a reason Torment Grenade Launchers and the Archangel of Pain aren't on the list for Dark Eldar?

Also, Harlequins: a Shadowseer with the Mask of Secrets and Psychic Shriek (and/or Terrify) could do some serious damage to the new bikes. Death is Not Enough on the Death Jesters could seriously hurt the bikes too, especially given that they are likely to be hanging around backfield and that they flee farther than other units.

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As an addition to what's already stated about the Wyvern, Jink is useless against it, and if you take Renegades you can field batteries of 5 and each tank is 10pts cheaper to boot. 20x twin-linked shredding cover-ignoring barrage small blasts. All for slightly more than a Land Raider.

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My Wyvern battery did really well at wiping small squads of bikes out this past weekend. They accounted for 90% of the kills in both squads. Admittingly their first volley only killed two of a 5 man unit but the rest of the volleys did major damage to both units I was against. That said, it was a wraith list and the bikes were pretty much the only thing worth shooting at with them in the entire list.

I think that if 10 man bikes become a thing, Wyverns will be a great weapon to use. Especially as hopefully the IG player is using target saturation to his advantage.

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Would using Rapier batteries with quad heavy bolters work? Not ideal given 36" range and low mobility, as bikes can dart in range then back out again - but they can deny large areas of board to the Eldar, in theory, while being at least relatively resilient and useful against other targets, and not particularly expensive points-wise.

More useful in Maelstrom games where the Eldar might actually have to come in range of the artillery position, I suspect.
   
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That reminds me of fortifications. They are largely immune to S6, so it might be possible to get some board denial with them.

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Land raider redeemer with Deathwing knights and Ezekiel inside. Ezekiel mindworms champion, deathwing knights are T5 with special ability, 2+ and 3++. On the charge they get 15 attacks, and can charge to str 10. Could also use belial with Thunder Hammer. and challenge.

 
   
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AnomanderRake wrote:CSM have the Typhon and Sicarans too, though unfortunately the Legacies of Ruin in IA13 don't include one that gives Ignores Cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Land Raider Prometheus is impervious to Scabikes and has an auspex for everyone else, might be worth looking into. Problem with trusting your Land Raider or Typhon is the abundance of D weapons on the other side of the Jetbikes.


already on the list though you are correct in that I didn't put it in CSM as I find the lack of ignore cover making it not much better than just battlecannons (which are now added)

A Town Called Malus wrote:The HYMP broadsides don't need ignores cover as their missiles don't get past the 3+ armour save, so the attached commander doesn't actually contribute to the unit (unless you also have them with twin-linked plasma rifles, in which case carry on but you need to get closer which will be difficult). Also, the Puretide chip doesn't give ignores cover, it's the one that gives out tank hunter, counter-attack etc. so if that's on there for other reasons then carry on.

For Tau, I'd say a possibility is the Farsight 7 man bodyguard team with buffmander/buff'vre and a load of drones as ablative wounds.

So many twin-linked ignores cover plasma rifles...


I forget, can you deep strike all of them close enough (thought there was a broadside in there)? and in the end, isn't it the same effectively as a bunch of crisis suits with plasma + farsight enclaves?

I'll correct the broadsides entry

Eggzavier wrote:Necron Nightbringer may be too short range if taken as itself.

If taken in a conclave though, you can DS it, should be close enough to get in a PotC'Tan and a gaze of death. Plus 6 S5 AP3 shots from the crypteks that are with it.

It'll also be T8 if you build the conclave correctly.

Another thing: Necron Doom Scythe formation. They'll get some S10 AP1 blasts, and one of them will deviate less. Add to that the Tesla Destructors, and the formation can reduce their leadership to a 7, which might make them run after getting some hits in, and also pairs well with the aforementioned gaze of death.

Sort of a hybrid in the Shooting/Melee counter:

Catacomb Command Barge: Kitted out, you can get a S7 AP2 one use only flamer, an AP3 2 shot heavy guass cannon, and/or a staff of light on the overlord riding. For the melee list, it can move 12" and flat out 18", so it should be able to catch them and the scatter laser can't touch the Barge's AV13.


how do you build this conclave? I am not familar with crypteks that can attach with a C'tan. Please elaborate on the rules on this one. I might have overlooked it in the codex.

the command barge does not make this list since it is too short ranged. Someone else please make a melee counter if you want. I'm sticking with a narrow view to stay on topic.

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Co'tor Shas wrote:The tau XV109 Y'vahra might do rather well. It's pretty tough, very mobile, and it's plasma flamer will ignore their armour and save, and has a 6" torrent to extend the range. Also has another 3 shots with the ionic discarge cannon at 12", which ignore armour and blind them, if you then want to charge and attack them.


the ranges are a tad too short to make this list technically though I guess I'll add it as an honorable mention. 6' move + 12' torrent +6 ' flamer = 24' only so it's not as great as I'd initially thought (according to experimnental rules on forgeworld)

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:For orks flash gitz might come in handy. It a lot of S5 shots and half the time you ignore armor and they can take a battle wagon as a transport.

Deff koptas with twin rokkits are almost just as fast, have 4+ armor and 2 wounds.


hrm... good ideas. 12' truck (fast vehicle move) and then typical ork shooting with snazguns can sorta work. I'll add it in as a runner up. deffkoptas are not putting out the amount of dakka necessary to make this list with rockets or shootas honestly.

ProwlerPC wrote:I'm a bit dissapointed with the range of their snazguns but they are essentially Nobz with 2 wounds each. They look amazing and I'm certainly going to pick up some for painting but as soon as they lose the mobility of their transport I fear those bikes will have no issue staying out of range while still being able to reach them with their own guns.

Deff Koptas are Orks version of jetbikes. I'm juggling the idea of getting them or buggies. Hard to say. Maybe/probably both.


it's still 24' + 12' truck move but ya... that AV10 vs all the str6 isn't gonna last long lol.

Jimsolo wrote:I might have missed it, but was there a reason Torment Grenade Launchers and the Archangel of Pain aren't on the list for Dark Eldar?

Also, Harlequins: a Shadowseer with the Mask of Secrets and Psychic Shriek (and/or Terrify) could do some serious damage to the new bikes. Death is Not Enough on the Death Jesters could seriously hurt the bikes too, especially given that they are likely to be hanging around backfield and that they flee farther than other units.


I'm not familar with the torment grenade launcher or harliquins and how to get it into range. Are you deep striking something with this plan? I'm not familar with the archangel of pain so you'll have to explain it a bit for me please. I can't really add it without knowing how it'd work or where to put it in terms of strength of counter. All I really know of harliquins is that stupid blitz thing from solitares and how annoying shadowseers make long range shooting lol.



MarsNZ wrote:As an addition to what's already stated about the Wyvern, Jink is useless against it, and if you take Renegades you can field batteries of 5 and each tank is 10pts cheaper to boot. 20x twin-linked shredding cover-ignoring barrage small blasts. All for slightly more than a Land Raider.


It's already on the list.

Col. Dash wrote:My Wyvern battery did really well at wiping small squads of bikes out this past weekend. They accounted for 90% of the kills in both squads. Admittingly their first volley only killed two of a 5 man unit but the rest of the volleys did major damage to both units I was against. That said, it was a wraith list and the bikes were pretty much the only thing worth shooting at with them in the entire list.

I think that if 10 man bikes become a thing, Wyverns will be a great weapon to use. Especially as hopefully the IG player is using target saturation to his advantage.


target saturation meaning what exactly in this case? that the wyverns have too many targets?

The Kremlin wrote:Would using Rapier batteries with quad heavy bolters work? Not ideal given 36" range and low mobility, as bikes can dart in range then back out again - but they can deny large areas of board to the Eldar, in theory, while being at least relatively resilient and useful against other targets, and not particularly expensive points-wise.

More useful in Maelstrom games where the Eldar might actually have to come in range of the artillery position, I suspect.
the quad heavy bolters are kind of OK and heavy bolters are already on the list so it's not too crazy if you can get enough shots downrange but you aren't ignoring armor or cover but just wound saturation.

Co'tor Shas wrote:That reminds me of fortifications. They are largely immune to S6, so it might be possible to get some board denial with them.


true, and I like the fortifications but that's a different list than this one. trying to stay with just the weapons. we can have other threads on how to survive 100+ str 6 shots per turn.

Doctadeth wrote:Land raider redeemer with Deathwing knights and Ezekiel inside. Ezekiel mindworms champion, deathwing knights are T5 with special ability, 2+ and 3++. On the charge they get 15 attacks, and can charge to str 10. Could also use belial with Thunder Hammer. and challenge.


I think alot of folks are interested in a melee counter to jetbikes but its outside the scope of this particular list. Feel free to start a seperate discussion on melee and or ways to kill wraithknights. I find I can't manage to moderate more than one thread a day if I wanna keep my day job lol.

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A Town Called Malus wrote:The HYMP broadsides don't need ignores cover as their missiles don't get past the 3+ armour save, so the attached commander doesn't actually contribute to the unit (unless you also have them with twin-linked plasma rifles, in which case carry on but you need to get closer which will be difficult). Also, the Puretide chip doesn't give ignores cover, it's the one that gives out tank hunter, counter-attack etc. so if that's on there for other reasons then carry on.

For Tau, I'd say a possibility is the Farsight 7 man bodyguard team with buffmander/buff'vre and a load of drones as ablative wounds.

So many twin-linked ignores cover plasma rifles...


I forget, can you deep strike all of them close enough (thought there was a broadside in there)? and in the end, isn't it the same effectively as a bunch of crisis suits with plasma + farsight enclaves?

I'll correct the broadsides entry


Oh, I didn't mean his Farsight Enclaves command team (which yes, does have a broadside in it). But Farsight also has a special rule (whether taken as Farsight Enclaves or from Codex: Tau Empire) where his standard Shas'vre Bodyguard unit can have up to 7 members, rather than the usual maximum of 2 for other Crisis commanders.

Combine with pinpoint deepstrike from Farsights warlord trait and that gives you a lot of plasma (and fusion if you wanted to kill some tanks) you can drop into enemy lines. Make sure to have enough target locks to allow split fire and prevent massive overkill (no point in pointing 25 plasma rifles at a unit of three jetbikes, after all).

Though they would be susceptible to any Strength D which the Eldar player had, so killing that would also be vitally important.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/20 23:21:04


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got'cha. updated and credited. It's basically the farsight bomb all over again lol. They need more split fire to get at the other things.

I'm debating between melta or plasma on all the suits to hopefully target something like a wraithknight nearby too.

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TGL's and the Archangel of Pain both require a Ld test, and cause a wound (with no cover or armor saves) for each point by which the test is failed. This is made much better by the ability of the Dark Eldar/Harlequins to stack negative modifiers out the wazoo. (Each Haemmy coven formation projects a stacking 12" -1, the Shadowseer can take a 12" -2 as well as applying a further -1 from Terrify, and any Codex DE HQ can take a 6" -2. The Shadowseer can also take Psychic Shriek, which is even more effective than the TGL or Archangel of Pain.

All of these units have access to Deep Strike, and the DE HQs can take a Webway Portal to negate scatter. You could theoretically drop a Raider in with four HQs aboard (provided that you are taking a Harlequin, DE, and Covens detachment) which can cause 3d6-one unit's Ld in wounds (no saves for bikes) in the psychic phase, followed by a different unit suffering a TGL hit (Ld test, 1 wound-unsavable for bikes-per point it is failed by), as well as every unit within range of the Archangel of Pain suffering the same (although THIS test must be taken with a further -2 due to the Archangel's special rules). The unit inside the Raider (a unit of Harlies works well, as would a unit of Grotesques, who could potentially add another -1 to the equation) is also still free to shoot, although the Shadowseer can use his own Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher to throw out an attack which causes a Pinning test if it even hits, and this can target a different unit than the two previously hit!

Furthermore, in the above example, units within 6" of any part of the Raider are at a -5 or -6 to Ld normally, those within 12" are at -3 or -4.

This is only one example. The Freakish Spectacle rule, Mask of Secrets, Archangel of Pain, and Armor of Misery play well with the Torment Grenade Launcher, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher, as well as the Death Jester's Death is Not Enough! rule and the Shadowseer's guarantee-able Psychic Shriek and potential Terrify. These can all be mixed and matched to devastating effect against infantry (the TGL, PGL, and Archangel do not work against models with ATSKNF or Fearless, but Eldar don't have those normally) to devastating effect, and if allied with Codex: Eldar or a Corsairs army, the leadership-based tactics get even more gruesome.

(For reference, the Codex: Dark Eldar selections in the last paragraph are in Red, the Harlequins in Pink, and the Covens in Blue, with the selections that both DE forces can take in Purple.)

(Although I didn't list it in the example unit, the Death Jester pairs well in this grouping. Any unit he wounds must take a Morale test with a -2 penalty, and upon failure will flee in a direction of the Death Jester's choosing, strongly increasing the chances the bikes will flee off the board.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 23:37:19


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Conclave of the Burning One is a Necron formation in the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book.

You pair two crypteks (which can take any wargear options / artifacts as normal) with a C'Tan Shard (Nightbringer, obviously). The three become one unit, cannot seperate, and no other ICs can join the unit for the game.

The crypteks get to use the C'Tan's toughness though when determining to wound rolls. (T7 normally, T8 if one of the crypteks takes a god shackle, a 10pt upgrade). The crypteks also give the C'Tan a point of FNP each (5+ when both are alive),

This also allows the unit to DS, since you can give one of the crypteks the Veil of Darkness, and the other one can take the Solar Staff, which makes everything else snap shoot at the unit once per game.

Of course, they still only move 6" once they land, but they should wipe out a squad of bikes the turn they paradrop in.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/21 05:14:00


 
   
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How about the Dominous Triple Bombard?

moving it will throw a ST 10 AP 3 large blast up to 36 inchs, but standing still it'll throw a apocalyptic template (the clover) with 3 hits at a much greater range (60" max) same ST and AP.

Might saturate the area enough to hopefully wipe out some bikes.


Also. The Imperial Armor: Vol 1, 2nd Edition Hydra Flak Tank still holds the Auto Targeting System ability that ignores jink saves or cover saves made by super sonic or Jink (or something along those lines, can't remember the exact thing). A squadron of them still throws out plenty of Autocannon shots and with the Anti-Jink ability might be able to bring them down. Or at least kill a bunch.

If absolutely needed I suppose 9 of them (all 3 Heavy support taken up) could hold them at bay for a period of time.

The Praetor Launcher with its Firestorm missiles of ST 6 AP 4 ignore cover, 7inch blast Twin Linked Barrage Ordenance 2 might be able to burn enough of the bikes to make them think twice. Not to mention its extreame range would help it hit the bikes multiple times before they get close enough.

Even its Foehammer rockets (anti tank rockets): with battle cannon stats ST 8 AP 3, with barrage, TL, Ordinance, 2 large blasts Could remove chunks of the Bikes group.

Plasma Blastguns like from the Stormblade or the Omega Pattern Blast gun on the Omega Macharius might throw enough plasma templates to mlet the jetbikes through sheer number of saves.


Edit:
The new Icarus Array mounted on the Skittarii Dunewalker while its short ranged for an AA weapon (I think) is still longer range then Jetbike weapons like the scatter cannon. Unleashing its weapons into jetbikes all of which have skyfire could kill plenty of bikes, squadroned into 3s the walkers could hold back the tide and their invul save for standing close to each other might stave off some of the glances they will defiantly get when bombarded by the Scatter cannon (hopefully frontally!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 05:51:01


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The XV107 R’varna might be useful as well. It has two large blasts at 60", and will hit bikes twice at S7 for each model under the blast. Assuming 3-4 bikes under each blast, that could mean something like 16 hits a turn from each one. That would mean 4.4 dead bikes are turn as I make it out, not the best, but better than nothing.


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Also, how much is a sinlgr bike+gun, I'd like to see if it makes it's points back.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 05:55:59


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Another IMO good counter for Tau is the Skyray. With 3 markerlights (out of which the Skyray itself provides 2 at BS 4) you can fire 6 s8 ap3 Seeker Missiles at BS 5 with Ignore Cover. This results in about 4.2 deadbikes, almost makimg the Skyray's points back (4 bikes are 108, skyray is 115) and forcing a Ld check. After the missiles are spent, Skyray still provides 2 markerlights and a SMS.
   
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I can see any battle cannon equivalent being useful as well.

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Orks have Lobbas that can kill a couple of bikes per shooting. Considering the lobba's point cost, range, t7 3+, ammo runts and ability to snipe out warlocks, i'd consider mass lobbas to be the weapon of choice against both bikers and bunched up wraithguards. Much better than lootas i think.

Also, as mentioned above, Flashgitz might be fine. Te thing with gitz is that they have d6 AP and bikes have to jink before you actually make a shooting attack, so they can't know if they WILL need that jink or not. So, even if you screw up with rolls, you still tickle the eldar's nerves. The downside is they're 24" which jetbikes laugh at. They eat up HS slots that are very valuable for orkses. Gitz are very expensive, squishy and fully rely on transports. Thus, you need either a battlewaron or a gun wagon. BW are also expensive and gun wagons eat up another HS slot. Yes, you can squadron them but the squadron will get easier eliminated by eldar firepower. Furthermore, Gitz in opentopped transports will get one-shotted by D-Scythe squad that would cost half their price.

Thus, i think gitz are not an option.

A squad of 10 lootas has a potential to kill from 0.74 to 2.22 bikes. Statistically. And they even don't force bikes to jink. That's for a 150 pt squad that's gona get erazed by return fire next turn. Not great.

Lootas are also not an option imo.

Tankbustas are not very point-efficient against jinking bikers but they can pull a wound or two on a wraithknight and can potentially do something with wraiths and serpents. So, taking them in a gun wagon might be an option. And they're allready in many ork lists. 24 range, though and are once again super vulnerable to scythes in OT transports. But better than gitz and lootas as they're much cheaper than gitz, more mobile lootas and more universal than both of them.

So, all we've really got are lobbas and tankbustas, kmk to force eldar jink. Nothing to actually counter but can try to deal with them. And if you're lucky, can even kill enough to make them less frightening.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/21 07:07:01


 
   
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 koooaei wrote:
Orks have Lobbas that can kill a couple of bikes per shooting. Considering the lobba's point cost, range, t7 3+, ammo runts and ability to snipe out warlocks, i'd consider mass lobbas to be the weapon of choice against both bikers and bunched up wraithguards. Much better than lootas i think.

Also, as mentioned above, Flashgitz might be fine. Te thing with gitz is that they have d6 AP and bikes have to jink before you actually make a shooting attack, so they can't know if they WILL need that jink or not. So, even if you screw up with rolls, you still tickle the eldar's nerves. The downside is they're 24" which jetbikes laugh at. They eat up HS slots that are very valuable for orkses. Gitz are very expensive, squishy and fully rely on transports. Thus, you need either a battlewaron or a gun wagon. BW are also expensive and gun wagons eat up another HS slot. Yes, you can squadron them but the squadron will get easier eliminated by eldar firepower. Furthermore, Gitz in opentopped transports will get one-shotted by D-Scythe squad that would cost half their price.

Thus, i think gitz are not an option.

A squad of 10 lootas has a potential to kill from 0.74 to 2.22 bikes. Statistically. And they even don't force bikes to jink. That's for a 150 pt squad that's gona get erazed by return fire next turn. Not great.

Lootas are also not an option imo.

Tankbustas are not very point-efficient against jinking bikers but they can pull a wound or two on a wraithknight and can potentially do something with wraiths and serpents. So, taking them in a gun wagon might be an option. And they're allready in many ork lists. 24 range, though and are once again super vulnerable to scythes in OT transports. But better than gitz and lootas as they're much cheaper than gitz, more mobile lootas and more universal than both of them.

So, all we've really got are lobbas and tankbustas, kmk to force eldar jink.


I know this is kinda reaching for LoW and FW again. But a friend of mine runs Orks and I don't want him to be grasping at straws if the local Eldar players use mass jetbikes (of which several actually have the jetbikes to in theory attempt it, maybe not WYSIWYG per model, but certainly enough bikes!).

But what about a Killabursta with the D Gun (Which I built my friend one) or the Kill Blasta with the Giga-Shooter that might spit out enough bullets to do serious damage.

That or maybe the Kill Krusha tank maybe? I can't recall its shell types but Im sure ONE of them could be used to make holes in jetbike groups.

That or mounting a Supa Cannon to a Battlewagon maybe? I don't know the stats but a gun of THAT size must be able to throw a big template and plenty of ST and AP Dakka for 'urtin' dem twiggy Eldar.

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I don't think that big expensive tanks are an option against D-weapons in the first place. Remember, they can one-shot your 400+ pt tank with a 120 pt squad up close or a 295 pt wraithknight from across the board.

Even worse with stompa as it's combo with a KFF and meks is around 1000 pt.

Yep, if there are no D-weapons, tank could work. It will not work if there are. So, if ranged D-weaposns are allowed, don't think that ANY big ork vehicles can work.

You could potentially get a MFF mek and hope he doesn't roll 6-s but the combination is very expensive once again.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/21 07:59:27


 
   
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Chaos lord or sorc jump pack burning brand s4 ap3 torrent in a unit of raptors with a couple of flamers ds in and burn and if a sorc with telep psy shiek as well. Mark them as slaanesh for fnp banner and they could become a real pain to shift.
   
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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I can see any battle cannon equivalent being useful as well.


Max spacing, yo!
   
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I'd not go for flamers with raptors. It's not a good weapon for a deepstriking squad that can't mitigate scatter.

Not sure if psy powers ar an answer cause eldar have good psychic protection via a ton of psy dice here and there and psychers in most valuable squads.

Anywayz, Tzeenc is worth looking at with their s8 ap1 beam. You'll probably kill one of your own guyz but...why not! Can also destroy serpents that would carry wraiths.
   
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 sudojoe wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:For orks flash gitz might come in handy. It a lot of S5 shots and half the time you ignore armor and they can take a battle wagon as a transport.

Deff koptas with twin rokkits are almost just as fast, have 4+ armor and 2 wounds.


hrm... good ideas. 12' truck (fast vehicle move) and then typical ork shooting with snazguns can sorta work. I'll add it in as a runner up. deffkoptas are not putting out the amount of dakka necessary to make this list with rockets or shootas honestly.

ProwlerPC wrote:I'm a bit dissapointed with the range of their snazguns but they are essentially Nobz with 2 wounds each. They look amazing and I'm certainly going to pick up some for painting but as soon as they lose the mobility of their transport I fear those bikes will have no issue staying out of range while still being able to reach them with their own guns.

Deff Koptas are Orks version of jetbikes. I'm juggling the idea of getting them or buggies. Hard to say. Maybe/probably both.


it's still 24' + 12' truck move but ya... that AV10 vs all the str6 isn't gonna last long lol.


I don't think I saw this mentioned but I may have missed it. If you are going with the 12' vehicle move with 24' range, 10 Necron Warriors in a Ghost Ark at AV 13 (until something pops the quantum sheilds, then its still an AV 11) can put some hurt on even if you only get 20 shots out of it at range (salvo 10 from the ark with relentless and 10 from the crons inside as it's an open topped vehicle)

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Jimsolo wrote:TGL's and the Archangel of Pain both require a Ld test, and cause a wound (with no cover or armor saves) for each point by which the test is failed. This is made much better by the ability of the Dark Eldar/Harlequins to stack negative modifiers out the wazoo. (Each Haemmy coven formation projects a stacking 12" -1, the Shadowseer can take a 12" -2 as well as applying a further -1 from Terrify, and any Codex DE HQ can take a 6" -2. The Shadowseer can also take Psychic Shriek, which is even more effective than the TGL or Archangel of Pain.

All of these units have access to Deep Strike, and the DE HQs can take a Webway Portal to negate scatter. You could theoretically drop a Raider in with four HQs aboard (provided that you are taking a Harlequin, DE, and Covens detachment) which can cause 3d6-one unit's Ld in wounds (no saves for bikes) in the psychic phase, followed by a different unit suffering a TGL hit (Ld test, 1 wound-unsavable for bikes-per point it is failed by), as well as every unit within range of the Archangel of Pain suffering the same (although THIS test must be taken with a further -2 due to the Archangel's special rules). The unit inside the Raider (a unit of Harlies works well, as would a unit of Grotesques, who could potentially add another -1 to the equation) is also still free to shoot, although the Shadowseer can use his own Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher to throw out an attack which causes a Pinning test if it even hits, and this can target a different unit than the two previously hit!

Furthermore, in the above example, units within 6" of any part of the Raider are at a -5 or -6 to Ld normally, those within 12" are at -3 or -4.

This is only one example. The Freakish Spectacle rule, Mask of Secrets, Archangel of Pain, and Armor of Misery play well with the Torment Grenade Launcher, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher, as well as the Death Jester's Death is Not Enough! rule and the Shadowseer's guarantee-able Psychic Shriek and potential Terrify. These can all be mixed and matched to devastating effect against infantry (the TGL, PGL, and Archangel do not work against models with ATSKNF or Fearless, but Eldar don't have those normally) to devastating effect, and if allied with Codex: Eldar or a Corsairs army, the leadership-based tactics get even more gruesome.

(For reference, the Codex: Dark Eldar selections in the last paragraph are in Red, the Harlequins in Pink, and the Covens in Blue, with the selections that both DE forces can take in Purple.)

(Although I didn't list it in the example unit, the Death Jester pairs well in this grouping. Any unit he wounds must take a Morale test with a -2 penalty, and upon failure will flee in a direction of the Death Jester's choosing, strongly increasing the chances the bikes will flee off the board.)



Awesome, I like it. copied to front page and credited.

Eggzavier wrote:Conclave of the Burning One is a Necron formation in the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book.

You pair two crypteks (which can take any wargear options / artifacts as normal) with a C'Tan Shard (Nightbringer, obviously). The three become one unit, cannot seperate, and no other ICs can join the unit for the game.

The crypteks get to use the C'Tan's toughness though when determining to wound rolls. (T7 normally, T8 if one of the crypteks takes a god shackle, a 10pt upgrade). The crypteks also give the C'Tan a point of FNP each (5+ when both are alive),

This also allows the unit to DS, since you can give one of the crypteks the Veil of Darkness, and the other one can take the Solar Staff, which makes everything else snap shoot at the unit once per game.

Of course, they still only move 6" once they land, but they should wipe out a squad of bikes the turn they paradrop in.


nice, added to list and credited

Engine of War wrote:How about the Dominous Triple Bombard?

moving it will throw a ST 10 AP 3 large blast up to 36 inchs, but standing still it'll throw a apocalyptic template (the clover) with 3 hits at a much greater range (60" max) same ST and AP.

Might saturate the area enough to hopefully wipe out some bikes.


Also. The Imperial Armor: Vol 1, 2nd Edition Hydra Flak Tank still holds the Auto Targeting System ability that ignores jink saves or cover saves made by super sonic or Jink (or something along those lines, can't remember the exact thing). A squadron of them still throws out plenty of Autocannon shots and with the Anti-Jink ability might be able to bring them down. Or at least kill a bunch.

If absolutely needed I suppose 9 of them (all 3 Heavy support taken up) could hold them at bay for a period of time.

The Praetor Launcher with its Firestorm missiles of ST 6 AP 4 ignore cover, 7inch blast Twin Linked Barrage Ordenance 2 might be able to burn enough of the bikes to make them think twice. Not to mention its extreame range would help it hit the bikes multiple times before they get close enough.

Even its Foehammer rockets (anti tank rockets): with battle cannon stats ST 8 AP 3, with barrage, TL, Ordinance, 2 large blasts Could remove chunks of the Bikes group.

Plasma Blastguns like from the Stormblade or the Omega Pattern Blast gun on the Omega Macharius might throw enough plasma templates to mlet the jetbikes through sheer number of saves.


Edit:
The new Icarus Array mounted on the Skittarii Dunewalker while its short ranged for an AA weapon (I think) is still longer range then Jetbike weapons like the scatter cannon. Unleashing its weapons into jetbikes all of which have skyfire could kill plenty of bikes, squadroned into 3s the walkers could hold back the tide and their invul save for standing close to each other might stave off some of the glances they will defiantly get when bombarded by the Scatter cannon (hopefully frontally!)


The skyfire guns are fun but they don't ignore armor and the snapfiring will hurt it's abilities to do adequate wounds to ground targets. Jetbikes don't count as skimmers as far as I am aware.

Co'tor Shas wrote:The XV107 R’varna might be useful as well. It has two large blasts at 60", and will hit bikes twice at S7 for each model under the blast. Assuming 3-4 bikes under each blast, that could mean something like 16 hits a turn from each one. That would mean 4.4 dead bikes are turn as I make it out, not the best, but better than nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how much is a sinlgr bike+gun, I'd like to see if it makes it's points back.


Interesting, I'll add it to the list as a runner up. credited

LordBlades wrote:Another IMO good counter for Tau is the Skyray. With 3 markerlights (out of which the Skyray itself provides 2 at BS 4) you can fire 6 s8 ap3 Seeker Missiles at BS 5 with Ignore Cover. This results in about 4.2 deadbikes, almost makimg the Skyray's points back (4 bikes are 108, skyray is 115) and forcing a Ld check. After the missiles are spent, Skyray still provides 2 markerlights and a SMS.


Added and credited

Co'tor Shas wrote:I can see any battle cannon equivalent being useful as well.


already on the list to at least make the things jink

koooaei wrote:Orks have Lobbas that can kill a couple of bikes per shooting. Considering the lobba's point cost, range, t7 3+, ammo runts and ability to snipe out warlocks, i'd consider mass lobbas to be the weapon of choice against both bikers and bunched up wraithguards. Much better than lootas i think.

Also, as mentioned above, Flashgitz might be fine. Te thing with gitz is that they have d6 AP and bikes have to jink before you actually make a shooting attack, so they can't know if they WILL need that jink or not. So, even if you screw up with rolls, you still tickle the eldar's nerves. The downside is they're 24" which jetbikes laugh at. They eat up HS slots that are very valuable for orkses. Gitz are very expensive, squishy and fully rely on transports. Thus, you need either a battlewaron or a gun wagon. BW are also expensive and gun wagons eat up another HS slot. Yes, you can squadron them but the squadron will get easier eliminated by eldar firepower. Furthermore, Gitz in opentopped transports will get one-shotted by D-Scythe squad that would cost half their price.

Thus, i think gitz are not an option.

A squad of 10 lootas has a potential to kill from 0.74 to 2.22 bikes. Statistically. And they even don't force bikes to jink. That's for a 150 pt squad that's gona get erazed by return fire next turn. Not great.

Lootas are also not an option imo.

Tankbustas are not very point-efficient against jinking bikers but they can pull a wound or two on a wraithknight and can potentially do something with wraiths and serpents. So, taking them in a gun wagon might be an option. And they're allready in many ork lists. 24 range, though and are once again super vulnerable to scythes in OT transports. But better than gitz and lootas as they're much cheaper than gitz, more mobile lootas and more universal than both of them.

So, all we've really got are lobbas and tankbustas, kmk to force eldar jink. Nothing to actually counter but can try to deal with them. And if you're lucky, can even kill enough to make them less frightening.


I'l add the lobbas and credited, but I'll leave the other suggestions on the list for now. It already says that orks are pretty screwed atm >.< I'm not really sold n tankbustas/rockets, I've never seen massed rockets do much of anything.

Skullhammer wrote:Chaos lord or sorc jump pack burning brand s4 ap3 torrent in a unit of raptors with a couple of flamers ds in and burn and if a sorc with telep psy shiek as well. Mark them as slaanesh for fnp banner and they could become a real pain to shift.


intersting tactic and I'll add it, credited.

I don't think I saw this mentioned but I may have missed it. If you are going with the 12' vehicle move with 24' range, 10 Necron Warriors in a Ghost Ark at AV 13 (until something pops the quantum sheilds, then its still an AV 11) can put some hurt on even if you only get 20 shots out of it at range (salvo 10 from the ark with relentless and 10 from the crons inside as it's an open topped vehicle)


How are you getting the shot numbers? The ghost ark is not a fast skimmer so it'd be moving at cruising speed to go 12'. That'd force snap firing as far as I am aware. Or does the formation's relentless override that?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:
I'd not go for flamers with raptors. It's not a good weapon for a deepstriking squad that can't mitigate scatter.

Not sure if psy powers ar an answer cause eldar have good psychic protection via a ton of psy dice here and there and psychers in most valuable squads.

Anywayz, Tzeenc is worth looking at with their s8 ap1 beam. You'll probably kill one of your own guyz but...why not! Can also destroy serpents that would carry wraiths.


the beam I suppose can be deep struck within range but you'll still be able to jink it correct?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/22 00:00:21


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 sudojoe wrote:


LordBlades wrote:Another IMO good counter for Tau is the Skyray. With 3 markerlights (out of which the Skyray itself provides 2 at BS 4) you can fire 6 s8 ap3 Seeker Missiles at BS 5 with Ignore Cover. This results in about 4.2 deadbikes, almost makimg the Skyray's points back (4 bikes are 108, skyray is 115) and forcing a Ld check. After the missiles are spent, Skyray still provides 2 markerlights and a SMS.


Does the skyray have to snapfire the markerlights at the bikes?


No. Velocity trackers allow Skyfire to be toggled on or off for that shooting phase. So the Skyray would be fine for marking the Jetbikes.

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ya, I caught it too and fixed it. Thanks though.

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 sudojoe wrote:

the beam I suppose can be deep struck within range but you'll still be able to jink it correct?


Can't jink a beam as it doesn't target anything.
   
 
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