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2015/07/09 20:46:11
Subject: Cent star in the current meta / effect of librarious conclave
You can get the FW knight with the AP3 Hellstorm template. I was going to field one, but painting the plasma obliterator that I will man with some dude wearing the helm of Durfast is taking a whole lot longer than I'd originally planned. (So yeah a SW detachment could use both apoc templates with ignored cover in a CAD.)
I don't think there's a huge shortage of cover ignoring thing that imperial forces have access to.
Heck, there's now tripple TFC units which you could give rending to with the Storm of Fire warlord trait.
But, I think we're getting way off topic (except in that I feel single centstar + one of these cover ignoring options is more viable than double centstar).
2015/07/10 00:36:23
Subject: Cent star in the current meta / effect of librarious conclave
I was thinking more for a pure CSM army then loyalists who already have several ignores cover options. When I play my Typhon vs. RW I have a chance.
The TFC + Telion for Storm of Iron is awesome. The first time I tried it I wiped out a black knight squad in one volley. The Typhon has never shot down a black knight squad in one shot.
I live in the Chicago area and we play mostly by the Adepticon rules which means FW ignores cover options are legal.
How does this deal with CentStar? The Typhon adds 1 to the thunder blitz table. If the CentStar is invisible, then a 5+ on the blitz table will most likely wipe them out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/10 00:41:32
2015/07/10 00:53:05
Subject: Cent star in the current meta / effect of librarious conclave
Xenomancers wrote: Ravenwing is going to destroy gladius. To the extent gladius isn't going to show up to tournaments. I wouldn't worry about gladius.
Marine lists are going to be more focused on hard hitting alphas from skyhammer and CAD with ultra marines running tiggy with grav devs.
Problem is - MSU don't gain much from libbies because their firepower and total wounds/defense is so low per squad. Marine have almost no other method to ignore cover - and without ignore cover - you can't beat raven wing. Want to see how fast 25 MSU can disappear when they cant kill anything? watch that matchup.
Skyhammer + CAD also wrecks galdius - the alpha alone I calculate can kill 8 razorbacks with decent rolls. Leaving you fighting an army of bolter marines fighting heavily armed marines.
I beg to differ.
My Battle Company runs about 400-pts of free transports as well as 2x3 units of centurions in drop pods. And I put characters with Auspexes in them. I've seen some BC's run Legion of the Damned to complement them as well. There are ways for marines to ignore cover. The Gladius isn't dead against Ravenwing.
Gotta get pretty close to use an auspex - means you are getting auto charged by something the next turn and you can't overwatch with cents...You could get lucky and roll ignore cover or invis with your libs but the odds of that aren't that great. Seems like a pretty expensive suicide squad - hands the enemy slay the warlord and your two toughest squads so you can take 30 grav shots. Could work some games but I wouln't call it the strongest torney build marines can put out right now.
I've considered running a 10 man unit of plasma LOTD. Problem is they don't start on the board - so it's a pretty expensive reserve squad.
My go to ignore cover option is tiggy with sterngard. Automatic ignore cover rending bolters. Tiggy has the best chance to get the spells you want too.
Getting Auspex into range isn't a problem when they're in drop pods and can still disembark 6" from the pod.
BTW, the list doesn't really rely on Centurions for the win. Rather, it relies on tons of ObSec bodies that you have to shift off of objectives (unless you're playing Kill Points). The centurions are just "distraction" units. Dangerous yet just a distraction unit after all. You may spend 2-3 turns killing them but by then, my ObSec bodies will be firmly entrenched onto the objectives. BTW, I don't have to put my Warlord with the centurions:
jy2 wrote: Here is an example of a list that I would run. The emphasis isn't on psychic powers. Rather, it is on lots of scoring and a distributed threat used to alpha-strike the opponent. I don't care about Skyhammer because I can just null-deploy. Drop my centurions on T1 if I'm going 2nd or drop them later if I am going 1st.
5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Drop Pod
5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Drop Pod
5x Tacticals - Gravgun, Combi-grav, Meltabombs, Drop Pod
5x Scouts - Meltabombs, Land Speeder Storm
5x Scouts - Meltabombs, Land Speeder Storm
5x Scouts - Meltabombs, Land Speeder Storm
Coteaz (feel free to swap him out for a 3rd Librarian and move 1 troops to the allies section if you want)
Problem here is that you're essentially playing a different army / not using centstar... The gk Libby with the book is there for the 4/6 roll of gate to let the second star bounce around the table (first one from Draigo)
The number of Libby's is for rolling for invis for the second centstar as well... Through playtesting four games I've hit both powers for the second centstar every game so they are necessary
I do agree with the stormtalon not being enough air support and considering I could drop that and gain a centurion and still have points I think that's worth it late game once the censtar starts taking random wounds
The rhinos are simply there to counter skyhammer with the scouts
Even if skyhammer combat squads the devastators they only hit four targets so 2 rhinos and 2 scout squads max... They almost certainly wipe those units sure but besides first blood who cares?
The assault squads still charge the centstars but they can hold their own against that many attacks, especially with Draigo and Libby's in each squad respectively
In games that it's not skyhammer I can still use the rhinos to run around for objectives or shuttles for scouts or even mobile cover depending on circumstances so they aren't a complete waste
Fair enough. I am suggesting that running dual centstars isn't all that great because the supporting cast are just too lacking, but if you are really set on running it, then that's fine. If you are set on running the Conclave as well as GK allies, then there really isn't much wiggle room in terms of trying to reduce the character count in order to bump up the supporting units.
You can't have two Drop Pods in an allied detachment, as Drop Pods are Fast Attack, which is 0-1 in an Allied Detachment.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/07/10 01:23:16
Subject: Cent star in the current meta / effect of librarious conclave
Sorry, but that is actually a Space Marine CAD, not allies. I'll fix it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer Blades wrote: jy2 the truth is practically no one runs Tau competitively .
Doesn't change the fact that Tau is a potential counter-army to RW. And in a few months when the new Tau dex comes out, you will see them en masse once again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/10 02:37:49
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