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Hi,

I tried to build some pulp charcters. As main profiles for little toolbots I used the base from dwarfs and for the bigger defensebots the base from orks. It worked out really good and the games seemed to be well ballanced. But there is one thing I didn't understand clearly. Do I have to add the hero / henchman stats (HP DP & XP) to the base values of the race or replace them?
I like the idea to represent the damage dealt to the armor by adding the armor value to the health points, but armor becomes to powerful if more than 1 point is added. Maybe heavy armor could add 1 HP and 1 DP instead?

Yes, what you have to do is start off with the stats for one of the races already listed, and then you can add +4 points for Henchmen or +8 points for Heroes.

I haven't decided yet, but I have been thinking of lowering that amount to +2 for Henchmen and +4 for Heroes. The stats will be lower, but I think it will make people choose their attributes more wisely

I have been thinking about armor and shields, I didn't want to allow people to raise Defence too high, because then it might be too difficult to wound your enemies. So at best you can get +1 DP for a shield, and also +1 DP from a skill.

So I liked the idea of armor raising HP to represent them being tougher to kill. I don't think armor can be as simple as Shileds though because there are so many different types of armor.

How about incrasing the XP cost for armor? I could double the cost, so light armor would be +10 XP, medium 20 and heavy 30? Then if you end up using a lot of heavily armored men, you could be outnumbered easily and your opponent has more chances to attack you and negate all the extra HP that armor gives you?

Yes, increasing the xp for armor sounds good. This represents the fact, that heavy armor is really expensive and just a few members can afford it. Cool! I would not lower the points to spend but maybe the number of skills to use. What about 1 skill per 2 points of intellect?

But you misunderstood my question. If I set up a human caracter as a hero, do i use (before I spent any points) the 2 HP from the race and add the 4 HP from getting a hero to result in 6 HP or do I replace the 2 by 4?

Looks like I forgot to add that part to the rules! Basically what you do is select your race, and those are the stats for a Minion or average person for that race.

For a Henchman they will get +2 HP (total of 4), +1 Str (total of 2) and + 25 XP (Total 50).

A Hero would be +4 HP (total 6), +2 DP (total 3) and +50 XP (total 75)

Hope that makes sense. I'll update the rules on the web shortly

It's me again
What do you think of a skill that let's a model that has not been activated during this turn interupt (or test/try to interupt) the actual model? Like a sniper (or camper ) waiting for someone to walk in his line of fire. Then the model would count as activated.

Could work in a fantasy setting to. (City guards with crossbows on the watchtowers... )

Hmm, like Overwatch? It could be done as an action.. you activate someone and put them on overwatch and then they can shoot later in the turn if someone moves into view?

The only thing is I think it would be too unbalanced if they had high stamina and could make a lot of shots .. so maybe it could be changed where you must have at least 1 free action left in your turn to save it for later, so you can still move into position and set yourself up. But for any extra unused action, you can add +1D6 to your shot? So if you have a stamina of 4, you could move once, go on overwatch for your next action.. and since you have 2 actions left you would get +2D6 to hit when you shoot?

Or does that complicate things too much and you should just be able to shoot as many times as you have stamina left? I just don't want it to turn into a game where everyone just stays on overwatch and never moves

To keep it simple, you could go on overwatch if you have at least 1 unused action. Then if you want to use it, I would allow only one shot +1d6 for aiming. All other unspent actions (if there are some leftover) are gone.

And maybe it should really become a skill to prevent the situation, that nobody moves ever. And it would reflekt the specific training as a watchman.


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Or if not a skill, the watchman would have to do a intellect test. If not successful he just doesn't notice his enemy.

Planning to do an update tonight, I'll add the Overwatch skill .. save your last action to shoot at a target that moves into view. You can take your shot after they finish a Movement action, and if they're still alive after you shoot then they can finish the rest of their activation afterwards.

Also going to add Careful Planning, save your last action to use in the following game turn instead, giving you +1 action next turn. I think that will be useful early in the game where you might reach your movement max and have no one to shoot at yet.

I think I'm also going to change around the undead and demon races and just go for 1 Horror chapter listing Skeletons, Zombies, Vampires, Demons and Werebeasts. Then things like ghouls or wights won't be like a separate race, but instead I'll use those names for different character profiles when I get around to adding them.

I've updated the skills and added Overwatch and Planner, also renamed Leader to Inspiring.. and I shortened a lot of the text so it's shorter and sweeter.

Also got some other feedback from some testers and decided to change jumping and tackling. Now, you can jump across a gap as a special move action, but you can only move half of your quickness when you jump. If you move more than 6" first and you're running, then you can jump your full quickness.

For tacking, I changed that to where you can just drop down and if you land in an enemy's personal space you'll have +1 Strength in your next melee attack against them.

As far as presentation goes, I think I’m going to change things up with the settings a bit. I was trying to keep things more open ended and less redundant, but I think it will work better if each setting is in it’s own self-contained PDF and section on the web rules. Even though some things like races will be shared among different settings (you can use fantasy elf stats if you want to make space elves in sci fi games for example).

So I’m just going to update the Fantasy chapter to include all races, including the horror ones. Plus more comprehensive weapon listings, spells, special skills, etc. That way all of the fantasy rules will be in 1 place. Then when I do some other settings, I can just copy and paste the same rules over to there.

I was trying to avoid repeating a lot of the same info, but I think in this case it will be a lot more efficient for people, they will have all of the special rules they need for the games they want to play all in 1 place.

Next on my list... I have been giving the racial stats a lot more thought and I’m planning to change them around a bit more.. We have our list of "mortal" races now, so instead of creating all new stat lines for each type of undead character, I’m going to start with the mortal version and add a + & - modifier to each one. This will allow us to have Zombie Elves, Skeletal Dwarves and even Orcish Vampires. I will still have all of the attributes for each listed in the rules for easy reference, but what I am planning on doing is having the changes be like this:

Zombie: -1 Quickness, +1 Strength
Skeletal: -1 Intellect, +1 Quickness
Vampiric: -1 Strength, +1 Intellect

Once I have the stats worked out for minion creatures like Dire Wolves or Baby Dragons, you’ll be able to apply those same modifiers to create a lot of different kinds of undead critters. I’m also going to set them up like two separate factions, Mortal and Undead.

Demons will be a 3rd faction, they get the same attributes allowing any mortal to be possessed by them, but they must select a demonic gift, so they will generally cost more XP than mortals.

You normally can’t mix races from different factions together, but there will be new special skills added that your Gang Leader can learn to allow him to recruit members form other factions.

So I take that back. I decided I don’t like the idea of a halfling vampire. What I decided to do was keep the 3 primary undead races.. skeletons, zombies and vampires. And then add in a generic undead stat line for all of the mortal races. So there’s just “undead dwarf” or “undead orc”. Doing the same thing with demons, there’s Minor Demons, Greater Demons and Arch Demons, and then possessed mortals. I just wanted to have a lot of the bases covered since there is such a huge variety of fantasy miniatures out there in the world.

I’m planning to post a big update to the rules and finish up the fantasy supplement this week. I just need to add the equipment and I want to make character cards using all of the fantasy character art I had done. After that I’ll probably start announcing it around the web.

Great news! I think I'll have to activate my fantasy minis again ☺
Pirates could fit in a fantasy setting too - maybe. This could be a way to play my undead pirates.
So far all the pulp test games we played seemed to be very balanced.

So I can't wait fot the printed version of the rules.

Another thing I neglected to add in the last version was a how to win the game page. I guess it’s kind of obvious that you’ll win if you wipe out the other gang, but I wanted to add an optional turn limit and objectives. So, you can just play to the death if you want, or have your game last for 6 full turns. You’ll get victory points for each kill you get, and also for picking up objectives scattered around the board.

In regular games the objectives will be worth extra victory points, but in the big fantasy book these objectives will usually be treasure chests or other sort of loot cache where you might find a cool weapons or magic items that your models can use during the game. There will be a chart that you can roll on to see what you find, and I was also thinking of having an optional loot deck done too, so you can just draw cards instead.

Then in campaigns, after your game you can sell your loot to get extra XP to add to your gang’s fame limit, or keep the items and add to your character permanently for the next game.

So now that that’s added i’m going to be putting together those sample character cards then I should be all set for the fantasy rules, later this week or early next week.

As usual, it's taking longer than I hoped. Too much new TV this week But I'm almost there. I've done some tweaks to some skills and added some extra bonus fantasy skills. I removed the Hunter universal skill, I'm going to make themed versions in each setting's rules. Or would it be better to have them all in the universal skills page so it's all in 1 place?

So some of the ones I added are..

Bounty Hunter - +1D6 to hit vs mortals

Templar - +1D6 to hit vs undead

Inquisitor - +1D6 to hit vs demons

Witch Hunter - +1D6 to hit vs mages

Necromancer - If your mortal gang leader has this, he may recruit undead minions and henchmen

Cultist - If your mortal gang leader has this, he may recruit demonic minions and henchmen

Beguiling - If your demon leader has this, he may recruit mortal minions and henchmen

And I want to do one like the above for undead to recruit mortals, but I can't think of a good name for it.

What would you think of Dark (or Undead) Archon?
On the other hand, vampires would have human henchman also...

I went with Compel for the name of the skill where undeads can have mortals in their gangs. Like where a vampire could compel you to do whatever they say.

I'm just about done. Well, the PDF is done. I just have to finish those character cards, and then I also want to start with a special blog post talking you through building a gang using a few minis so I have to take some photos for that. I hope to have it all done around friday, or else some time this weekend, then I'm going to start advertising the new site around the web next week.

Got the new PDF rules done Here is is:
http://skirmishgames.com/download/59/

Lots of changes, just about everything I mentioned since the last update. One other thing I just changed is how terrain and cover works a bit. There is no more heavy cover, just being "in cover" gives you a +1 Defense against ranged attacks. You can be inside area terrain, or behind an obstacle. Also, part of the obstacle has to be in your model's personal space in order to get the cover bonus from it. I had lots of questions from folks about when something counts as cover and when it doesn't, so I think this should make it a bit easier.

I also added a whole new page on how to win the game, which I forgot to add before. The easiest way to win is to wipe out the other gang, but there's added rules for having a set turn limit and adding objectives for you to collect.

Next I'll be finishing up those character cards and I'll get them posted tomorrow or Sunday.




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Oh and also, I'm going to remove the web-based rules pages for now. It will take a while to update them so the PDF is the most current for now

Just downloaded and read the rules and I really like them! Good job! While I always loved games like Necromunda and Gorkamorka, I have also been a great fan of generic fantasy skirmish wargames.

Hope to go through my fantasy collection and get together a couple warbands to give the fantasy rules a try.

Cool, let me know how it goes I'm going to be adding more to the fantasy rules soon too.. I was going to add a beast faction similar to Blakwater Gulch's beasts, for lycanthropes or players that just like the whole animals as people thing, and I'm also putting together the campaign rules and should have them ready in a little while.

Have a quick question about creating Heroes and Henchmen. Under making them, the rules state this:

Start with the base Attributes listed for your race. Heroes will gain +4 Health, +2 Defense, +50 XP and you may also spend 8 points to spend raising Strength, Quickness, Stamina, Intellect, Ranged Combat and Melee Combat. Henchmen gain +2 Health, +1 Defense, +25 XP and 4 points to spend raising attributes.

I get how they are otherwise get their attributes raised above the racial norm, but can you use each type of fighter's points (+8 for hero, +4 for henchman) to raise either their health or defense over the bonuses they already get, or just for ONLY the other attributes mentioned (Strength, Quickness, Stamina, Intellect, Ranged Combat and Melee Combat)?

Yep, you can only use the points to raise Strength, Stamina, Quickness, Intellect, Melee and Ranged combat. You can increase Health and Defense with skills or equipment

Great. Thought so but best to make sure. Thanks. Now off to get a handful of Skaven stormvermin and a grey seer painted to finish off a long-languishing warband.

Cool, I'm planning to put together a Stormcast guild once I get more if em painted. Gonna be a lot of XP for them though, since they are all large models in heavy armor.

Thinking aloud (as usual) .. I have some new ideas for minis and KS campaigns. First, instead of going with a full printed rulebook for each gameworld where I need to order 1000’s of copies (well, 1500 minimum) .. I worry about those costs cranking up a KS funding goal really high. The minimum amount of books would be around an $8000 funding goal, not including minis.

I’m starting to think now that maybe it would be better off at this point to keep it all online… a PDF version, maybe a more interactive apple iBook version like GW does, and a print on demand copy through Wargame Vault. Mostly because I don’t want to create a KS campaign with a really high goal, minis campaigns aren’t doing as well as they used to these days. I’d rather keep my costs way down and allow me to focus funds more on the miniatures. Then see how things go and consider the real printed books later, once there’s a line of minis to support the gameworld?

So that brings me to the minis. I have decided to go ahead and do my own miniautres for Lair of the Wurmqueen rather than just telling people to use stuff from other games (you still can if you want to though). There will still be generic fantasy rules for that, but the primary villain in the game is a kind of unique race of gorgon/medusa types, so it would be good to have minis for them, and other more unique guilds in the game.

Rather than doing a campaign with a bunch of different starter sets to choose from, what I think I might want to do instead is have a bunch of smaller campaigns just based on 1 race or faction. So, we would start with a campaign to fund the Wurmqueen’s followers, ship those out and then jump right into the next one for the next guild. Each campaign would have a finite amount of models & stretch goals, maybe 10 minis max. If things go well enough I might be able to do later guilds without needing to kickstart them.

At first I was thinking it would be better to do 3-4 different guild’s starter sets + a printed rulebook as a bigger campaign, but like I said I worry about the way campaigns have been going nowadays. Maybe after i can get 4 full factions together, maybe that can lead into the real printed book?

Anyway, that’s where I’m at now. I have Wayne starting on some concept art for the Wurms, so I hope to have that soon and will show it off when I get it

I like the idea of keeping it manageable and straightforward. You have a proven Kickstarter record and you know where you want to go, but don't put yourself in a position where you can damage your credibility or burn yourself out.

Yes, burnout was the reason I wanted to go this route. So doing 1 faction at a time I can focus on making some cool minis, get them all produced, and then not do the next faction until I'm ready.

It's probably better to introduce a new game with a rulebook and a few different factions from the start, but that requires a whole lot of funds that I just don't have. So I think this way will be better, I can slowly grow the line over time rather than rushing to do it all at once.

Then when I get a few fantasy factions established I hope to jump back and forth between that, and Blackwater Gulch and Mechadrome, so there's always something new coming for each gameworld.

Well, I've been impressed by what you've been able to do so far, so if you can keep going and get all three setting to function under the same ruleset, then I think that's a great accomplishment and you'll probably be able to build off of it even faster then.

Yep it will be easier once I bring the other games into the new format. I'm not rushing though, I want to get the Fantasy game up and running first and polished. Plus, since I just released the Savage Beasts update for BWG I don't want that to be invalid already. So I'm thinking I will probably do the Fantasy game this year, then BWG next year, and Mechadrome the following year.

Some random questions and musings:

Would Lair of the Wurmqueen introduce a larger variety of weapons rules-especially melee ones? I know they are lumped together for simplicity, but I think it'd be great to see "some" different types of weapon have different stats.

Like how a sword and an axe might each be largely the same as a one-handed weapons, but maybe things like two-handed Polearms could be M+2, but with a range of "2" for 5xp, while a normal spear would be 3xp for just M+1 and range 2. Normal two-handers would remain the same.

And right now unless I am missing something, dual-handed weapons seem in an odd place, as they can do the same as a two-hander for -1xp, but the same as a one-hander for +1xp. Because right now a one hander and a shield and a dual hander and shield do the same for different costs?

It mentions some items take up more than one point of strength when equipped. Which ones? Is that what the weapon trait "heavy" means on armor and shields?

Also, about taking damage:

If you do not make as many saves as attacks you are hit by, do you just take -1 health total, or -1 health for each failed save D6 rolled? The rules suggest the former to me, especially with the low health totals on most models, but I would want to be sure.