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The problem with the WW1 setting is First World War German soldiers were not evil mooks to be mowed down by the dozen like WW2 Nazis are. I don't know what the body count will be for this film but that could be difficult to make her the Good Guy.

 feeder wrote:
The problem with the WW1 setting is First World War German soldiers were not evil mooks to be mowed down by the dozen like WW2 Nazis are. I don't know what the body count will be for this film but that could be difficult to make her the Good Guy.

Well they seem to have some evil forces using the germans - masked girl and the general (?) who is fighting her hand to hand and says "what are you".

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?

 Mr Morden wrote:

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?

Were Hydra supposed to be worse than the Nazis? They never did anything remotely as bad and I kinda assumed that they broke them away from the Nazis to actually make them not seem quite as evil. Don't see why else it was necessary. Unless it was supposed to be a 'not even doing it for their country' kind of thing.

I assumed that this is what they are going for in Wonder Woman. Gets told that she's fighting an evil empire only to discover that they're not particularly worse than the people she's been helping and that many of the people she killed were just ordinary men conscripted to fight for their country. Bonus points if they actually slip in the lies perpetrated about the German army (such as them killing all the babies in Belgian villages as they went through). Though in fairness Germany and its allies were the aggressors so really we were more in the right than them. Britain only declared war after they marched into Belgium after all.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?

Were Hydra supposed to be worse than the Nazis? They never did anything remotely as bad and I kinda assumed that they broke them away from the Nazis to actually make them not seem quite as evil. Don't see why else it was necessary. Unless it was supposed to be a 'not even doing it for their country' kind of thing.

I assumed that this is what they are going for in Wonder Woman. Gets told that she's fighting an evil empire only to discover that they're not particularly worse than the people she's been helping and that many of the people she killed were just ordinary men conscripted to fight for their country. Bonus points if they actually slip in the lies perpetrated about the German army (such as them killing all the babies in Belgian villages as they went through). Though in fairness Germany and its allies were the aggressors so really we were more in the right than them. Britain only declared war after they marched into Belgium after all.

I'd bet literally none of that is in the film. Sorry if that came out as hostile. Let me be more clear, I do not believe the movie is going to be nuanced in any way. After all its a Greek Demi-god fighting in WW2 with what appears to be an American and a really big Iroquois.

 Frazzled wrote:

I'd bet literally none of that is in the film.

Probably.

But something is going to cause her disillusionment with man, right?

I think WWI trench warfare is more than enough. How delusioned is she if she is still banging about?

I could very well imagine Chris Pine either dying a horrible death, possibly betrayed by someone. Or him doing some suitably awful thing 'for the greater good' in the last act.

Given that Pine has said (I believe) that he's playing both WW1 Steve Trevor and his grandson, I'd not be at all surprised if he doesn't die in this, prompting Diana to return to the Amazons and shun humanity. Then when she comes back after BvS, she meets the modern Steve who convinces her to stay this time.

So well... This is a thing.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-theme-by-tina-guo

Um... Probably not safe for work, technically speaking...

I know how I feel about this, but, considering it's Wonder Woman, I'm not entirely sure if that's how I should feel about this...

Why so confused?

The first reactions from critics are out (reviews are still embargoed)...and they're actually positive.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-first-reactions/

I hope it is good - and I think it will be, but I wonder if the usual suspects who like to bash DC movies almost by reflex are given pause here because this is Wonder Woman now, and this time around they'll actually have to think critically about it before getting too critical by default?

If that makes sense?

The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.

It's interesting that WW and Aquaman -- of all characters -- seem to have the films with the strongest buzz. Which makes me wonder if WB will be focusing more on solo films than future JL installments. The schedule obviously suggests that, but it seems like the solo films work better when they're allowed to be their own thing. I think that MoS is without question the best of the 3 DCEU films we've seen to this point, for instance.

You know, I think you're on to something there!

But...why is that the case?

Is it just because the 'behind the camera' talent used so far just isn't up to the task, or is there something about these characters that doesn't lend itself to 'Avengers Style' group films?

 gorgon wrote:
The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.

Jesus, dude. How much does Warner Brothers pay you to defend their movies from strangers on the internet? BI haven't seen this much bitterness since I visited the Tyranids tactica thread.

weird-neither GC nor wife are interested.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.

Jesus, dude. How much does Warner Brothers pay you to defend their movies from strangers on the internet? BI haven't seen this much bitterness since I visited the Tyranids tactica thread.

They pay me your worth many times over. Dude.

Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.

 gorgon wrote:
Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.

It can be both things.

Well, sure.

Just like how BvS and SS being films with plenty of issues doesn't mean that some individuals didn't complain about all the wrong things. I think that's what I fear will happen with WW in certain circles.

I think "Marvel fanboys" isn't really much of a thing. A self-justification, perhaps.


Anyway, my wife and I are very excited about this movie (dirty Marvel fans that we are), so I hope all the positive buzz that I'm hearing through the vast Marvel agitprop network is accurate. I don't want to get my hopes up too high, though, because positive buzz is often deceitful.

I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!

High hopes here, and hearing initial positive buzz is, I think, a good sign.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!

Agreed. Fewer movies like Green Lantern, ANY of the Fantastic Four offerings, and Iron Man 3. MORE movies like Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxies, and The Dark Knight.

Kim Horcher seems really excited and positive about it, she saw it at the weekend.

So yeah, just a random internet person but broadly speaking if she disliked something she'd certainly really lay into it, and heavily. So as much as that's worth, I think the film will actually be good.

 gorgon wrote:
The first reactions from critics are out (reviews are still embargoed)...and they're actually positive.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-first-reactions/

Really hope it is decent.

I'm not a fan of what's come before, but being the first female lead superhero movie has put extra onus on this to buck DC's trend of mediocre-at-best.

I am interested more now, then when it just looked like a WW origin story. Now, it looks like a blending or myth, history, and an origin story. I generally like that in my superhero films.

 gorgon wrote:
They pay me your worth many times over. Dude.

Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.

Because that's the only reason anyone could find fault with the DC movies--as we all know, the two factions are rival gangs that settle their disputes via dance-off, West SIde Story style.

Me, I just want to see more awesome superhero movies.

Right, because anyone thinking that there are hateful trolls on the Interwebz are clearly just hateful trolls of an opposing opinion.


Soooooo...it's currently at a solid 78 on Metacritic, which isn't bad at all. It's at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes, although I still say RT's system is stupid.

Pleased to hear it doesn't suck!

Interesting, and not at all surprising, read here:

http://www.newsarama.com/34669-how-wonder-woman-was-patterned-after-batman-begins-and-superman-the-movie.html

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!

Very much the same. I think falling into a Marvel vs DC camp is... very strange, at best. As a kid who read lots of Marvel and lots of DC I hope for them both to do well and expand the genre.

I am 4x hyped about Wonder Woman. I'm not sure what specifically it is about this movie that has me so much more interested than the more recent ones - I guess because Wonder Woman is a little fresher and newer to me. I've never seen the Lynda Carter show. Maybe it's just because Gal Gadot was the best part of BvS imo. In any event, I am gonna see this on Thursday for sure unless it sells out.