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Lord Kragan wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

As much as I despise AOS, I wouldn't be against a RPG in that setting. It would give a chance to move beyond the shallow gigantic battle of faceless superheroes, and more info on the actual life in AOS is (yeah I know that the last novel is supposed to go into this a bit, but not interested enough in AOS to read it, while I would no doubt read a RPG book)

This. I love the Old World, but frankly, there already is a lot of material for it. I'd rather see AOS setting fleshed out, and I would love to have the setting information easily available in RPG sourcebook format, rather than spread out across several terrible novels (I did read 'the Gates of Azyr'; without any hyperbole, I can say it was the worst novel I have ever read. Not touching any BL stuff again.)

You went and read the worst novel (alongside warstorm's first third... which features the same characters.) of the setting as your first attempt? OH gee. Seriously, though, that gak was bad. If you ever want to read AoS novels, though, I recommend you go for Knigths of Vengeance and Mortarch of Night's series. Far better and interesting, stormcasts there have actual personality and there's more characters than them (plus Mannfred, oh... Mannfred)

I am glad I am the only one who does not feel like this I feel the hunt for nagash audio drama/mortarch of night is a good intro book that shapes the general setting better and introduces stormcast better than the other stuff. The first novels were not that great also city of secrets is another good one.

I don't think this version is going to be set in the AoS-verse though, so...

 Gamgee wrote:
I want a new 40k rpg so bad.

I think you'll be in a minority... While playing Orks, Eldar or Tau might seem like a fun and good idea... Too most of the RPG crowd that is way to alien! Even in most D&D games playing an (Half)Orc, Elf or Blue Fish People is often done in a party that's running through mostly human concepts and players still play 'alien' characters with mostly human concepts... In 40k that's pretty much a No-Go. Your playing in completely alien environments.

Personally I think the market is currently saturated for 40k or Old World RPGs, a AoS RPG might have some chance...

I didn't care much for WFRP 3e, it was useful for fluff, but with 2E I have a very good Grim and Gritty WFB RPG on my hands...

Asmodee is not going to take the license, if they were interested FFG would have extended the license.

Modiphius Entertainment I have mixed feelings about, feels a bit like a formula license holder.

Cubicle 7: Oh God No! Drivethrurpg.com no longer lists any Warhammer (40k) rpg, I hope that was a mistake...

Cergorach wrote:
Personally I think the market is currently saturated for 40k or Old World RPGs, a AoS RPG might have some chance...

How can a market be saturated for 40K RPGs when they are no longer:

A). Being produced?
B). In print?
C). Available digitally?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cergorach wrote:
Personally I think the market is currently saturated for 40k or Old World RPGs, a AoS RPG might have some chance...

How can a market be saturated for 40K RPGs when they are no longer:

A). Being produced?
B). In print?
C). Available digitally?

Everyone who wanted such a game has bought it over the last couple of years. With FFG it's always known many months in advance when something will go out of print. If people wanted it, they would have bought it. Not to mention the multitude of sales for those RPG ranges through FFG and some stores here in the EU. So the amount of people that don't have it and want it are either new or didn't have the funds for it during the last couple of years (but now do), that's not a large target audience... How many people would buy a new WFB/40k RPG when they already have one? I suspect not that many at the moment, especially considering that most customers are WFB/40k players that spend a lot of money on GW books and minis already, so it's competing with already stretched thin funds... As for WFB, maybe folks that didn't go with AoS and stopped buying GW minis, but would they want money going to GW through a third party?

Oh, it's available digitally... ;-)

I have almost every single book in every single range even before FFG picked it up and the collectors edition Deathwatch book.

I would still buy a new 40k rpg

Dungeon's and Dragon's has gone through numerous editions. And Star Wars numerous publishers and systems. Old rpg's are updated fairly regularly all the time.

I think your speaking for yourself only at this point given the evidence for all of rpg time is against you.

I know people who still play the older versions of games and people who move on to the next big thing. At this point the core rules for 40k are ancient dating back to pre FFG for the core of its rules and a lot of flaws have popped up over the years.

A new rpg gives a company another take at a system that does something different and alternate to the FFG line and no one is taking the FFG line away from anyone who owns or wants them.

Many people love the FFG Star Wars but a lot of die hard saga fans like myself hate it a lot for being gimmicky. The two systems do two very different things despite both being Star Wars and booth approach playing in it in totally different ways and do things the other can't.

Cergorach wrote:
Everyone who wanted such a game has bought it over the last couple of years. With FFG it's always known many months in advance when something will go out of print. If people wanted it, they would have bought it. Not to mention the multitude of sales for those RPG ranges through FFG and some stores here in the EU. So the amount of people that don't have it and want it are either new or didn't have the funds for it during the last couple of years (but now do), that's not a large target audience... How many people would buy a new WFB/40k RPG when they already have one? I suspect not that many at the moment, especially considering that most customers are WFB/40k players that spend a lot of money on GW books and minis already, so it's competing with already stretched thin funds... As for WFB, maybe folks that didn't go with AoS and stopped buying GW minis, but would they want money going to GW through a third party?

Right... but none of that is "market saturation". You understand that, right? Some of what you've said above is logical, and most of it is supposition, but none of it points to any form of 40K RPG market that's just flooded with products.

In fact in a couple of days it will be a drought, as there will be nothing available anywhere other than 2nd hand and whatever some random stores still have floating around.

Plus people would buy a new 40K RPG because it's a new 40K RPG. People want that product, and now they can no longer get it. Give it to them all of a sudden and people will buy it.

Cergorach wrote:
Oh, it's available digitally... ;-)

Aren't you clever.

My RPG collection is huge, takes up a large wall. I do have all the D&D stuff. But like I said, WFB/40k is a different beast, it's a licensed property of an already existent game world that produces tons of fluff already and is a very expensive hobby already. Add to that, that WFB 3e was very badly received by fans of the 1st and 2nd edition fans, I suspect that unless a 4th edition goes back to it's roots, it will not be well received either.

D&D tried to improve every edition, 2E was better then 1E, 3E was better then 2E. 4E was a mess and everyone felt that in sales and the exodus to Pathfinder. 5E was a return to form.

Look at SW, how long between the WEG and D20 edition? How well was SAGA received? I have all the WotC stuff, but I saw demand drop sharply. But SW is a magnitude different from WFB/40k, while there is a ton of merchandise, the amount of fluff won't set you back a few $100 a month/week. And a lot of folks that bought it never play RPGs. How much time between WotC and FFGs RPGs?

You can't even compare WFB/40k RPG to Warzone, Infinity or Warmachine RPGs, the amount of stuff coming out on a weekly basis is nothing compared to GWs money making machine. There are not all that many people that will buy the books if they aren't WFB/40k fans already...

There's a reason why FFG dropped it, FFG is very good at making money, they drop properties if they don't expect it to make them as much money as something else could.

Maybe things have changed with Cubicle 7 games, but I remember them from the D20 glut and they made crap, worse then Mongoose and that's saying something... Will they live up to the expectations FFG has set? The 40k books were beautiful!

So Modiphius officially responded about this and they do not have the license, Chris stated:

yes we decided not to pitch as we have plenty on to keep us busy.

As for the saturation talk. Right now it really does seam saturated on the 40k end just to do all the firesales (I actually picked up books from a local game store for $5 as apparently they bought in on the clearance sale that FF had) but even if a a new game was announced today it will still be 12-16 months away before the game is released unless it's really rushed. By that time all of the cheap priced will be moot.

@cergorach I hope 4th is a new beast and not just a 2nd edition update. D&Ds worst enemy is it's old throwbacks they keep putting in to hearken back to previous editions which make the systems stale or worse yet shoehorned in as with the first d20 starwars (where wizards tried to make it feel like a successor to the WEG game). That's not to mean they can't keep some aspects but it's better to look at things from fresh eyes. And yes, this can turn out like crap as 3rd edition but I think 3rd edition was poorly received for being a poor ruleset that was a boardgame without a board then for being too far separated from 2nd edition.

Demand for Saga was and is through the roof and it still has a serious and large dedicated fan followings and is considered to be one of the best star wars rpg's of all time hotly contested with FFG's take on Star Wars.

Wizards had a timed exclusive with Star Wars and decided not to renew their rights with Lucas Arts. This may or may not have been a decision of their parent company. At the time each new book was finally selling less after years of support. Any single rpg line except dnd would hit a saturation point where they had covered everything needed for players even allowing custom races to be made and whole host of additions. Saga's line is impressive and all high quality except for one or two books which weren't received as well.

Saga demand is quite high and core rules are still priced like new or even higher. The KOTOR campaign book is listed as rare and I had to buy a new sealed copy for 180 CAD when I seen a good deal. And this was when US/CAD parity was at its closest point in decades.

So Saga is extremely successful and popular. It's one of my favourite systems of all time right under Numenera and the 40k rpg systems.

Despite all this that didn't stop FFG's line from being super successful and even bigger and more spammed.

Cergorach wrote:
My RPG collection is huge, takes up a large wall. I do have all the D&D stuff. But like I said, WFB/40k is a different beast, it's a licensed property of an already existent game world that produces tons of fluff already and is a very expensive hobby already. Add to that, that WFB 3e was very badly received by fans of the 1st and 2nd edition fans, I suspect that unless a 4th edition goes back to it's roots, it will not be well received either.

D&D tried to improve every edition, 2E was better then 1E, 3E was better then 2E. 4E was a mess and everyone felt that in sales and the exodus to Pathfinder. 5E was a return to form.

Look at SW, how long between the WEG and D20 edition? How well was SAGA received? I have all the WotC stuff, but I saw demand drop sharply. But SW is a magnitude different from WFB/40k, while there is a ton of merchandise, the amount of fluff won't set you back a few $100 a month/week. And a lot of folks that bought it never play RPGs. How much time between WotC and FFGs RPGs?

You can't even compare WFB/40k RPG to Warzone, Infinity or Warmachine RPGs, the amount of stuff coming out on a weekly basis is nothing compared to GWs money making machine. There are not all that many people that will buy the books if they aren't WFB/40k fans already...

There's a reason why FFG dropped it, FFG is very good at making money, they drop properties if they don't expect it to make them as much money as something else could.

Maybe things have changed with Cubicle 7 games, but I remember them from the D20 glut and they made crap, worse then Mongoose and that's saying something... Will they live up to the expectations FFG has set? The 40k books were beautiful!

Ok, yes, but, again, none of that speaks to 'market saturation' of 40K RPGs.

You're spending a lot of time and words not addressing the issue here Cergorach.

The issue here being the new Warhammer Fantasy RPG that might (hopefully) be on the horizon, right?

Assuming it's a new one, and not just reprints of the old one. Or old ones. Does everything related to 3rd Ed stay with GW or FFG?

I can't imagine another company wanting to pay for another WFB RPG. I played all of its editions and I can't see it selling well beyond making people happy on the internet (who don't spend their money on it).

The current edition has all those funny dice that you'd need which is a big burden if the company no longer makes them (yes you can make your own, but most people don't want to do that). Anyone who really really loves WFB RPG can STILL play it and has the needed books to do so.

It can't possibly be a reprint of the FFG stuff since there might be licensing problems for the rules themselves. It's kind of a big waste of your money licensing 40k and just reprinting other people's books.

Seeing that Mr. Fox was heavily involved in the announcement/proliferation of the news, could it be that his Zweihänder RPG will be republished as WFRP by Cubicle7?

Wasn't that pretty much the same way they got onto The One Ring? (Hook up with Mr.Nepitello, get the LOTR license and BOOM!)

Maybe I am wishing for too much but a moderately improved WFRP 1st edition, and especially a high quality HC version of the Enemy Within campaign, would be an auto-buy for a lot of people.

Heck, we might even see the first legit German WFRP version!

Cergorach wrote:
My RPG collection is huge, takes up a large wall. I do have all the D&D stuff. But like I said, WFB/40k is a different beast, it's a licensed property of an already existent game world that produces tons of fluff already and is a very expensive hobby already. Add to that, that WFB 3e was very badly received by fans of the 1st and 2nd edition fans, I suspect that unless a 4th edition goes back to it's roots, it will not be well received either.

D&D tried to improve every edition, 2E was better then 1E, 3E was better then 2E. 4E was a mess and everyone felt that in sales and the exodus to Pathfinder. 5E was a return to form.

Look at SW, how long between the WEG and D20 edition? How well was SAGA received? I have all the WotC stuff, but I saw demand drop sharply. But SW is a magnitude different from WFB/40k, while there is a ton of merchandise, the amount of fluff won't set you back a few $100 a month/week. And a lot of folks that bought it never play RPGs. How much time between WotC and FFGs RPGs?

You can't even compare WFB/40k RPG to Warzone, Infinity or Warmachine RPGs, the amount of stuff coming out on a weekly basis is nothing compared to GWs money making machine. There are not all that many people that will buy the books if they aren't WFB/40k fans already...

There's a reason why FFG dropped it, FFG is very good at making money, they drop properties if they don't expect it to make them as much money as something else could.

Maybe things have changed with Cubicle 7 games, but I remember them from the D20 glut and they made crap, worse then Mongoose and that's saying something... Will they live up to the expectations FFG has set? The 40k books were beautiful!

FFG didn't drop WHFB, GW didn't want to continue their partnership.