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It is definitely slow but then I sat through JJ so I suppose can deal with that but the main gripe at this point (besides the hair obliviously) is that they guy playing IF seems to be someone acting like someone else whereas DD, JJ, and LC inhabited those roles. As stretched out* as JJ was Krysten Ritter was excellent as JJ.



*Felt like it should have been an eight episode series and not thirteen.

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Jessica Jones as a masterwork drama, as it dealt with the sensitive subject of abusive relationships quite beautifully. It didn't sensationalise, it didn't understate. Yes it put a fantastical bent on it, but it never lost its message.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Jessica Jones as a masterwork drama, as it dealt with the sensitive subject of abusive relationships quite beautifully. It didn't sensationalise, it didn't understate. Yes it put a fantastical bent on it, but it never lost its message.


I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean that that the show wasn't dragged out over to many episodes. One can recognize a good story idea and bad story editing. The series would have benefited from bit more succinct, is all.

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I agree about JJ. The first season of DD also could have used a trim. I don't mind a slower pace, but at a certain point you need to cut the film.

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Agreed on both. They could easily have been 10 episodes or 8 and been fine.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Jessica Jones' biggest failing was that it was slow, but if that's its only failing then it did pretty well. Certainly better than Luke Cage (relentlessly boring, and a hero that stays reluctant throughout the entire series, even during the final damned fight in the last episode), and certainly better than Iron Fist.

At the end of Iron Fist's 13th hour I was left thinking: And the point of that was...?

It reminded me of a show where the creates had a great backstory, a great mythology, and wonderful characters, yet were so wrapped up in keeping things mysterious that they never bothered to tell us anything by the time we zoom into the glowy fist and smash-cut to credits. It was more interesting than Luke Cage ever was, sure, but that doesn't make it good.

And we don't even get an ending. The show doesn't end. It just stops, mid-scene, with no sense of satisfaction and only Ward getting a sense of resolution.

I've complained that Daredevil Season 2 started strong, like a thick piece of rope that held multiple threads together, but then by the end of the season that rope is frayed and has begun to fall apart completely. Iron Fist is the same, except it never began as a tightly wound rope. Rather it is a loose collection of tangled strings that never come together to form anything solid.

Now we have to hope that The Defenders rights the ship.

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Just finished. I'm disappointed that so much effort went into world building but otherwise Danny didn't really do much. It looks like this is the weakest of the four shows so far. Danny was too fething emo for Marvel. His character could have been put into a DC show on the CW and nobody would have noticed the difference.

At least the infiltration and build up of the Hand in NYC was handled intelligently.

 
   
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 Ahtman wrote:
*Felt like it should have been an eight episode series and not thirteen.


I consistently see that complaint with all Netflix shows, not just Marvel ones. I think I agree for the most part.

Its weird that its so prevalent, I always assumed that maybe the actors have contracts that require a certain amount of screen time.

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2nd season of Daredevil's main flaw was Elektra.

Not sure if it was the writer, the character or actress (or any combo of those three) but I just felt 'meh' at best.

Punisher's arc was ace though.

   
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Luke Cage remains the only one I couldn't finish. Finished Iron Fist in a little over 24 hrs. I liked it well enough. Felt like I was watching a more adult Arrow with ties everywhere into the marvel tv universe.

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I do like how the general theme has been the villains not being at all super powered - just socially powerful.

They're all wealthy, all have fingers in pies. They're all toxic to the wider community,

Of course, Ironfist's villains were really quite lacking. Wilson Fisk and Purpleman were both brilliantly realised. Luke Cage's foe was something out of Blaxploitation cinema well updated and realised without a racist tone. Ironfist? Damp squibs, damp squibs for everyone!!!!

I do wonder how I'd regard Daredevil is it wasn't for Fisk...

   
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Daredevil without Fisk was season 2, wasn't it? And that basically semmed to resort to throwing in unfeasible numbers of ninjas! whenever things got too slow.
   
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Fisk was in season 2, and stole every scene

   
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The scenes with Fisk and Frank Castle together were a lot of fun.

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 Ahtman wrote:
The scenes with Fisk and Frank Castle together were a lot of fun.


As were the scenes with Fisk and Murdock. Basically any scene with Fisk was great. D'onofrio kills it every scene.

I've only watched the first 3 episodes of Iron Fist but I'm enjoying it. I enjoyed Luke Cage as well until they swapped bad guys. Cottonmouth was great.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/19 23:09:59


 
   
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Finished watching Iron Fist yesterday. Not a bad show. I'd be happy to see more of that. Not as good as the other Defenders shows mind, but watchable.

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I loved how gloriously understated Kingpin is throughout.

Very quiet man, and you get the impression that he's far from indiscriminate in his dealings. If you're not involved, your safe. If you're involved and don't even attempt to cross him, you're safe.

A very powerful man, but so far removed from being a bully it's chilling. His relationship with Vanessa is equal parts a beautiful romance, and MacBeth waiting to happen.

   
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I just want The Defenders to be good. Thankfully it's 8 episodes, and hopefully by then Danny will have grown up and will stop having tantrums whenever he thinks flying planes or being angry or being contradicted or literally anything.

I also hope Luke wants to be a hero by the time the Defenders comes around.

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It's out later this year I think?

I really hope it's not Goodies vs The Hand. The Hand are ever so boring in the TV series.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's out later this year I think?

I really hope it's not Goodies vs The Hand. The Hand are ever so boring in the TV series.


Nope. It's Defenders vs Serpent Society.

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At the moment the best thing about the Defenders is that there's a Punisher series after it.
   
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 nels1031 wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
*Felt like it should have been an eight episode series and not thirteen.


I consistently see that complaint with all Netflix shows, not just Marvel ones. I think I agree for the most part.


Not Stranger Things. That show was awesome.
Nor Orange is the New Black.


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 -Loki- wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
The scenes with Fisk and Frank Castle together were a lot of fun.

. I enjoyed Luke Cage as well until they swapped bad guys. Cottonmouth was great.


*******Potential Spoilers for Luke Cage Ahead************

I have to admit. I have no idea why they decided to do the villain swap. It actually reduced my interest in the show as it would have been more fun to see how a "regular-street level" villain would try to deal with a super-powered foe. Heck, he could have done the exact same stuff as D-back did.

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 angelofvengeance wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's out later this year I think?

I really hope it's not Goodies vs The Hand. The Hand are ever so boring in the TV series.


Nope. It's Defenders vs Serpent Society.


Is it? I'd assumed it would be them coming together to finally stop The Hand.

What's our order of upcoming new series/seasons looking like now?

 
   
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Defenders is first, middle of this year. Punisher will be the end of the year (November I'd say, like JJ and LC).

Next after that is JJ Season 2 (likely), followed by another DD, then either LC or IF, if they get 2nd Seasons (which they hopefully won't, because they'll do Heroes for Hire instead).

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I can't see them doing Heroes for Hire, it just doesn't feel in character for these tv versions of them. We've already seen Cage turn down money for helping out, and Danny was quite willing to make less money in the name of helping others. Seeing them demand payment for assistance will be an odd jump to get there.

 
   
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I'm wondering if they're not planning to do something with the 'other' Heroes for Hire team at some point, as that's headed up by Misty Knight and Colleen Wing who are now both in this setting. Not sure all the characters would necessarily translate that well (they have a guy whose power is talking to bugs...) but they might be angling towards that as the second 'Defenders' type teamup series.

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 AduroT wrote:
I can't see them doing Heroes for Hire, it just doesn't feel in character for these tv versions of them. We've already seen Cage turn down money for helping out, and Danny was quite willing to make less money in the name of helping others. Seeing them demand payment for assistance will be an odd jump to get there.


Cage would have given up breathing if he thought it would let him avoid being a hero for even a microsecond more. That guy took 'reluctant hero' to a whole new infuriatingly boring level.

I'm hoping that the Defenders beats that trait out of him.

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I'm really not sure about Iron Fist. A man who is a living weapon really needs to get into more fights. I mean, I'm up to Episode 8, and there's been about 4 good fights, which is nothing compared to Daredevil.



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 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm really not sure about Iron Fist. A man who is a living weapon really needs to get into more fights. I mean, I'm up to Episode 8, and there's been about 4 good fights, which is nothing compared to Daredevil.


I know what you mean! I get more excited when Colleen Wing starts fighting.
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She really sells that slightly more than necessary force thing well. When she takes out the dude in the hospital and twists his wrist back the other way, not because she needs to to win, but because she enjoys hurting him and smiles... that's a really interesting shade to her character.
That being said, I do like the subtle theme of Iron Fist sucking when he's surprised (though I do wish that happened less often) but once he squares up with someone he takes them apart. It feels right for somebody who's all training, no experience. I really find his temper the most off putting part of the series so far. It seems out of place in someone who spent the last 15 years in a monastery.

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