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 Kap'n Krump wrote:
And, in fairness ,the multiplayer mode is very MOBA-looking. But it's still a RTS, and you fight over objective points, gain requisition, build your base and army, try to take the enemy's listening posts, just like old DOW1. Just with a new map, which frankly, I think has promise. You can't be zerg rushed, for example, and you have to actually build an army and push the enemy's back.

I don't think it's a MOBA, but you have essentially described the biggest problem I have with this; it practically is DOW1 with a fancier paintjob, to the point where even most of the buildings have the same name and function as those in DOW1.

DOW1 is one of the worst aged RTS "classics" imo too, with severe balancing issues and flawed mechanics. Pretty much every RTS has those problems too, but not in the abundance that DOW1 had them in. It's no Command and Conquer, that's for sure.

I loved DOW2 because it stripped out most of the gak that was in DOW1 in favour of ability focused play and a more balanced lineup of units (sometimes less is better); a lot of people have the opinion that DOW2 is more of an Action RPG than a RTS, and to an extent they are right. However, I'd much prefer the more focused gameplay I got in DOW2 than what I got in DOW1, and what I expect to get in DOW3 thanks to the glaring similarities to the first game.

Yeah, that's my fear. That they're really just taking far too much from DoW1. But DoW1 was, honestly, nothing really all that special compared to other games of the time. It was carried by the setting itself, more than anything.

https://www.dawnofwar.com/beta

Sign-ups for open beta access began yesterday apparently.

We will begin sending out Open Beta confirmation emails, which will include your access key, from Wednesday April 12th.

Also

Army Customization Spotlight.

Ork Line Unit Roster

Eldar LIne Unit Roster

Space Marine Line Unit Roster

Doctrines spotlight

Welp, guess I'll need to sign up and put my money where my mouth is...

That Ork loot mechanic has potential - I'll certainly want to see how that goes

This is looking amazing so hyped. They almost killed it with that pos dawn of war 2 one of the worse games I think I ever played, my god it was horrible.

Now that they brought back planning, strats and macro.micro and not just the single hero click bait combat crap it will be great again.
Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.

Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.

OgreChubbs wrote:Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.

Quality over quantity is what DOW2 focused on, unlike DOW1, and probably this next instalment.

Gamgee wrote:Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.

Just because consoles have had some good exclusives doesn't mean the PC is out of the running. Hell, the PS4 and Xbox One still don't even come close to the competitiveness of a good PC, and all the benefits that offers. The lead is getting even bigger now with the consoles throwing away most of the advantages of having a console over a PC to become gakkier versions of a computer.

The PS4 may have some great games worth taking some time to play if you can, but I'd still take my PC over that any day of the week.

 General Annoyance wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.

Quality over quantity is what DOW2 focused on, unlike DOW1, and probably this next instalment.

Gamgee wrote:Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.

Just because consoles have had some good exclusives doesn't mean the PC is out of the running. Hell, the PS4 and Xbox One still don't even come close to the competitiveness of a good PC, and all the benefits that offers. The lead is getting even bigger now with the consoles throwing away most of the advantages of having a console over a PC to become gakkier versions of a computer.

The PS4 may have some great games worth taking some time to play if you can, but I'd still take my PC over that any day of the week.

What quality? they copy pasted command and conquor with poorly rendered skins of gamesworkshop.

The units would de-group and run around randomly. 1 unit would get stuck in a corner and the whole unit would become unresponsive.
The cover system was a joke at best.
The supression system made no sense. "We are being shot at quick everyone "WALK REALLY SLOW" Should of had a moral break and flee or something.
The heroes at level 6+ where game ending.
There was only 1 usefull hero per army in solo.
There was no race distinction. They all played the same had the same rough caps income generating ect.
1 main core base is just dumb.
ect ect.

OgreChubbs wrote:
What quality? they copy pasted command and conquor with poorly rendered skins of gamesworkshop.

You could at least try to spell it right. And no, DOW2 is nothing like any C&C game; Tiberium Wars 3 is the only one with even a hint of squad mechanics, and all C&C games have base building. If anything, DOW1 and 3 tried to take base building straight from C&C to make it work, and failed miserably.

The units would de-group and run around randomly. 1 unit would get stuck in a corner and the whole unit would become unresponsive.

Never heard of this

The cover system was a joke at best.

Explain

The supression system made no sense. "We are being shot at quick everyone "WALK REALLY SLOW" Should of had a moral break and flee or something.

They're ducking their heads and sticking to the ground. Why would anyone in their right mind run away from gunfire out in the open?

The heroes at level 6+ where game ending.

Much like how a Steamroller in any other RTS is game ending, plus those heroes can only ever compliment your forces - they can never run down an enemy fort on their own, as much as I've tried to do that.

There was only 1 usefull hero per army in solo.

If you only play an RTS one way, that would be what you would think.

Also, Eldar Warlock, Eldar Warp Spider Exarch

There was no race distinction. They all played the same had the same rough caps income generating ect.

That's not really an argument with no context. Besides, you don't need some big central faction mechanic to make a faction play differently; IG only have 1 melee unit other than their heroes for a start; Orks have little effective ranged firepower; Eldar rely heavily on triggering abilities and keeping momentum.

1 main core base is just dumb.

Again, not an argument without anything behind it. I believe quite a few people here would agree that base building is mostly a tired game mechanic with little merit; just because it's classic doesn't mean it's compulsory. DOW2 was a breath of fresh air for chucking that out of the window and allowing you focus on fighting battles rather than wasting time plopping down lore breaking structures from thin air and tabbing up units and base upgrades.

I think you misunderstand a invalid argument and one you do not agree with.

Invalid argument is bees cant fly "because they can"
A argument you disagree with is dow 2 sucks because, Then you disagree with the reasons listed.

Also if you play tyranid and used hornygaunts and they hopped into a tree the whole unit would not retreat or do anything but fall back to that same postion stand there til shot to death.

Hornygaunts? Those are even worse than the actual units that Nids have in the game!

Ignoring OgreChubbs' off-topic rambling for a bit, it looks like the game allows for a very large number of "line" units but only a limited number of "elites". Wonder how that'll play out in actual practice.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think you misunderstand a invalid argument and one you do not agree with.

Nope - an argument with validity is one that actually provides some kind of explanation other than a valueless statement.

Making a point to counter mine is fine and dandy, except there's no point to go on, or at least no context for it.

Also if you play tyranid and used hornygaunts and they hopped into a tree the whole unit would not retreat or do anything but fall back to that same postion stand there til shot to death.

Into a tree? That sounds like an incredibly specific incident.

 Melissia wrote:
Ignoring OgreChubbs' off-topic rambling for a bit, it looks like the game allows for a very large number of "line" units but only a limited number of "elites". Wonder how that'll play out in actual practice.

It could be a positive - sometimes a few basic units complimented by specialised elite choices is a lot better than a "regular" RTS' roster that has a bit of everything thrown in there, but nothing that could motivate the player to change their tactics up. Sounds like these elite choices will let players augment how they play - sounds like a nice idea to me.

Watching AJ stream the game. Wow it looks like crap like I suspected. He and the others with him didn't seem to be having too much fun.

I wish they used the card based system from Wargame Red Dragon. Instant balance since you can only take so much of any one thing and once your out you can't call in anymore for the duration of the battle.

In that game you build a "deck" of cards to make an army. If your familiar with the tabletop 40k you will be very familiar with the system. It's basically a more complex (because computers) combined arms chart.

So you have a set amount of slots, but at the same time every unit still has its cost to call it in the battlefield. At the same time if you run out of stuff your screwed. Each card in Wargame also gives you a fixed amount of call ins so you can take the same thing multiple times, but there are limits to how much a card can be taken depending on what it is and what type of deck.

In Wargame they have different types of "CAD's" so you can specialize your deck into any number of types form marines to support decks. This could allow for fluffy army compositions and bonuses in a video game using this system.

The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.

Any link for the stream?

The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.

That's not a titan thats the Gorkanaut (or Morkanaut)

If the Eldar hero can solo the Gorkanaut which is the ork superunit for the game imagine how much their super unit wrecked. It wasn't uncommon for a decently microed Wraithknight to kill two titans, a good chunk of an army, and still have enough health to escape and heal up for a return in a few mins. Company of Heroes 2 launch balancing it seems. Gawd that game was so disappointing. Last digital collectors edition I ever preordered.

Isn't that the purpose of a beta? To find these sorts of issues and fix them up before launch?

Though I'll have to reserve judgement on my own.. Course I also like Moba's might influence such.

Right but this is Relic. They are worse at balancing a game than GW is. Why do you think I stopped playing games for just over two years and stopped buying games in the dark times of gaming 2015 and 2016 were horrible years for games with like one or two exceptions for the two years. Even 2014 and 13 weren't all that great.

PC gaming and gaming in general was in a great decline. PC gaming still going down hill but at least the consoles are back to delivering solid games again. I haven't had time to paint basically in forever which is a good thing. I picked up 40k as a side hobby because of how crap the industry got.

Now however new GW seems to understand balance a lot better from what I've seen of AoS. Better than micro-transactionfest Relic does. However I can't entirely blame Relic, Sega is a big part of the greed influencing them.

It took them like 2 years to get CoH 2 into a slightly more balanced and working state than at launch. Then they mess it up by adding random drops, micro-transactions, and pay to win elements.

No faith in them. They also messed up DoW2 pretty bad. Even though it looked good the singleplayer and multiplayer was pretty bland. It was such a wasted opportunity bringing in CoH style tactics which would bring it more in line with a 40k low points game. However the gameplay was ultimately marred heavily in singleplayer by dumb boss fights, dumb AI, and a weird loot rpg system. It's skirmish mode with the idiot AI was little more than ring around the rosie. Against players they often report the same thing for a long time before combat starts. It had one great thing though. Last Stand mode. Great inspiration.

So as you can see Relics track record has been getting shoddier and shoddier over the years. DoW2 was fun enough but definitely two steps backwards for everyone one good thing it did right. This basically sums up everything they've done since CoH topped getting expansions.

When DoW3 was first announced I was really excited. They claimed they were taking the best worlds of both DoW 1 and 2 and putting them into a game. The DoW community (myself included) imagined large scale battles of DoW 1 and the tactical features of DoW2 which would have fixed many complaints. We also imagined the better story of DoW2 but a unique one for each race. Instead they merged all the races into one cheap ass campaign. So instead we got the worst aspects of all the games back. We get base building, a lack of tactical options, moba influence, super high health bars on everything hero fighter mode thing with destroying the nexus gameplay. Oh and even LESS starting content than either game and they going to put more and more dlc in.

Yaaay. Faith in Relic at this point is 0/10.

If it wasn't for the PS4 being super hot this year with games I would probably still just be painting stuff and talking about 40k and AoS. Thankfully someone in the video game industry understands how to make good games still.

Edit
To top it all of they gave DoW3 the dumbest most kiddie looking graphics ever and despite using a style that should be easy to read fethed it up with all the glowing effects making it too hard to see.

I'm so done with PC gaming until I see improvement or a really must have game. It's been so long my PC is gathering dust. Oh I still play Total War Warhammer that was one of the few good games released for PC.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.

That's not a titan thats the Gorkanaut (or Morkanaut)

Eldar overpowered? Orks underpowered? Where is my fainting couch!!!

Oh I forgot to mention. I was in the Company of Heroes 2 beta before launch. Like a few weeks since I preordered the big mega edition. Despite having a beta a good chunk of problems remained on launch and new ones popped up balance was atrocious. It was terrible for a long long loooong time too.

I forgot to add that above. No rts developer in recent history can feth up as much as Relic.

Back to Persona 5 I go.

So no links? I'll choose to wait, then.

 Gamgee wrote:
PC gaming and gaming in general was in a great decline. PC gaming still going down hill but at least the consoles are back to delivering solid games again. I haven't had time to paint basically in forever which is a good thing. I picked up 40k as a side hobby because of how crap the industry got.

Wut.

Almost everything you can find on a console, the PC will have a better port for it, or will offer something of equal or greater value. With a few exceptions here and there (primarily The Last of Us) there are very few reasons these days to have a console over a PC, and none of those reasons hold much weight against the advantages of a computer.

I always hated the PC Master Race meme, but honestly that's getting more and more accurate the more consoles try to be crappier versions of PCs.

No faith in them. They also messed up DoW2 pretty bad. Even though it looked good the singleplayer and multiplayer was pretty bland. It was such a wasted opportunity bringing in CoH style tactics which would bring it more in line with a 40k low points game. However the gameplay was ultimately marred heavily in singleplayer by dumb boss fights, dumb AI, and a weird loot rpg system. It's skirmish mode with the idiot AI was little more than ring around the rosie. Against players they often report the same thing for a long time before combat starts. It had one great thing though. Last Stand mode. Great inspiration.

Multiplayer was probably the best part of that game. Last Stand and the Campaign, while fun, were pretty throwaway; Multiplayer achieved that perfect balance of moving battlelines and tactical table turning which made it so enjoyable. Well, at least when you play control point maps - Annihilation was a pretty bad mode for me, since it's unlikely that a team will lose once they have built momentum.

So as you can see Relics track record has been getting shoddier and shoddier over the years. DoW2 was fun enough but definitely two steps backwards for everyone one good thing it did right. This basically sums up everything they've done since CoH topped getting expansions.

I don't see how it was two steps back - it was just different.

Perhaps this is the problem with RTS fans; anything other than a classic or classic inspired setup is total heresy apparently.

When DoW3 was first announced I was really excited. They claimed they were taking the best worlds of both DoW 1 and 2 and putting them into a game. The DoW community (myself included) imagined large scale battles of DoW 1 and the tactical features of DoW2 which would have fixed many complaints. We also imagined the better story of DoW2 but a unique one for each race. Instead they merged all the races into one cheap ass campaign. So instead we got the worst aspects of all the games back. We get base building, a lack of tactical options, moba influence, super high health bars on everything hero fighter mode thing with destroying the nexus gameplay. Oh and even LESS starting content than either game and they going to put more and more dlc in.

Sounds like you set your expectations way past what we were given honestly...

To top it all of they gave DoW3 the dumbest most kiddie looking graphics ever and despite using a style that should be easy to read fethed it up with all the glowing effects making it too hard to see.

Flat shading's not a bad thing; RTS games have never been well known for graphical fidelity, so it makes a lot of sense to go with an art style that is more forgiving in that department, but still looks pretty great.

The animations are what bug me - they're a little too Starcraft/Blizzardy for my liking.

I'm so done with PC gaming until I see improvement or a really must have game. It's been so long my PC is gathering dust. Oh I still play Total War Warhammer that was one of the few good games released for PC.

XCOM 2, Vermintide, Mirage, Overwatch, Guns of Icarus to name a few off the top of my head. Perhaps none of those are "must haves" but the idea of a must have is totally subjective anyway, so I don't really buy that line of argument.

I'd call Xcom and Xcom2 as "must have" games myself.

Honestly though the PC gaming industry is enormous now, putting anything console to shame in terms of sheer size and variety it offers. You can quibble about quality if you want, but there's more new releases or updates of old releases every month on the PC than consoles have in a year.

But I have to ask what this has to do with the topic?

 Melissia wrote:
Honestly though the PC gaming industry is enormous now, putting anything console to shame in terms of sheer size and variety it offers. You can quibble about quality if you want, but there's more new releases or updates of old releases every month on the PC than consoles have in a year.

This

But I have to ask what this has to do with the topic?

Don't ask me, I didn't start it...


Also some gameplay for you, since Gamgee couldn't link the stream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEq-Of5RrcY

Starts at around the 2 minute mark

I'm honestly still looking forward to this. Got to watch the Yogscast play a little bit of it and I liked what I saw, so I'm excited personally

 War Kitten wrote:
I'm honestly still looking forward to this. Got to watch the Yogscast play a little bit of it and I liked what I saw, so I'm excited personally

I got to see that as well, it actually looked quite well good! Sure it's not going to match the previous games but it looks like a pretty decent game in its own right.

Got my open beta key today, keep an eye on your emails folks !

Got my key as well.

Ditto already installed the game just need to wait til 21st or the 24 what ever it was lol.