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2017/03/17 00:37:40
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/03/17 00:37:45
Subject: Re:GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Lord Kragan wrote: J-just from which year is that? Please tell me it's from the nineties.
It was posted to YouTube in 2010. I see the 40K 5th edition starter and what looks like the WHFB Battle for Skull Pass starter.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/03/17 00:38:24
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Galas wrote: Well, Bloodbowl was a success even with the Mantic sci-fi one and Guild Ball.
But yes. Beating Star Wars its a thing that I think GW can't acomplish.
They COULD, but that would take a massive cross sell across several media and spending money advertizing it and promoting it EVERYWHERE, and GW isn't even willing to do that with their flagship titles.
Maybe thats not a great idea afterall...
Now being serious. Can you imagine what can Warhammer become (or its became?) if GW put money in advertising and try to make it a Mainstream thing? Like. Marvel Movie-Universe. Deadpool and Logan are the proof that things can be a commercial succes with more than a Teen rating.
Trouble is with advertising is that it can all too easily become a blockhole you chuck cash into - especially when you're a PLC.
Wny? Ads are expensive. In order to make it worth it, you have to bring in sales over the cost of the campaign. Early days of the campaign, probably easy enough - after all, if the message 'lands' you spread the word and reap the benefit. But.....as time goes on, you face diminishing returns.
And if you cease advertising because of increasingly poor cost/benefi, there's a serious risk you'll be seen as a failing company.
Advertising. It's a vicious circle.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I am cautiously excited but i am worried that they will do another scale change like with Adeptus Titanicus.
Would be great to have these Heresy ships and use them in BFG (especially if they would release those
chapter gloriana ships)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: First heard of that through a reliable source I could reasonably expect to know that info. BFG returning, but set during the Heresy.
Well, that saves me lots of money as I have no interest whatsoever in any game set during the HH.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Elbows wrote: Also, the Horus Heresy is being used the same way it originally was waaaay back with the original Epic games --- it's the easiest most boring and uninteresting way to start a game when both sides use the same equipment.
Fixed that for you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/17 19:22:29
2017/03/19 05:49:48
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
I loved BFG but it had some serious balance issues. They fixed some, like the Star Wars tactic of launching tons and tons of fighters and bombers. The balance, especially with Xenos fleets was a huge issue. Ask any Ork player how fun it was to play against the Eldar. I'd love to see BFG make a comeback but balance needs to be addressed.
Setting it during the Heresy starts with helping the balance as both sides will have the same "pool" or shops to pull from. It also won't be all Marine all the time, as while it is true that the Imperial Fleet was controlled by the Legion commanders, they had every type of ship under the sun. STC ships, Battle Barges, Grand Cruisere, classic Imperial ones everyone knows from BFG, all of these were the Imperial fleet. Even the Legion fleets had human captains and admirals in them.
And I would love to see the Gloriana class ships in action
2017/03/19 06:32:50
Subject: Re:GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
I don't think BFG being an older design matters at all. After all, 40k still dominates the market and it's the definition of old-fashioned design. This is because strong IP paired with good looking models tends to trump all else. DFC may be an innovative game design but I just don't care about the setting - and I have the receipts to prove I have tried! SW also has its own IP issue, when it comes to miniatures gaming: there is only so much that is genuinely iconic ... this has proven especially true with Armada. The 40k IP has the advantage of being widely loved by gamers as well as being able to leverage its strong branding to turn new designs into iconic ones in a relatively short time. Maybe there was never a Fidelis-class frigate in BFG before last Tuesday but it's much easier to accept than the miserable EU and Disney crap layered on top of real SW ... much less the whatevers versus the nobodycares of DFC. My verdict - I don't care about fleet games but ... yes, I would be interested in a BFG re-release. Maybe espeicially a BFG re-release focused on the HH. My issue is, FW is a dead end. If GW expects one of these neo-specialist games to really succeed, don't saddle it with the FW boutique pricing. What a mixed message!
RE "AoS-ified Mordheim" -
First, it's not clear that the rumor of some kind of Mordheim release in 2018 has anything to do with this mysterious Shade Spire (Shadespire?) project, right? But even if we assume it's something other than Shade Spire, I think it's a damn good bet that it's set in the AoS ... er time period? rather than in the Old World. OK so straight off the bat, I freely concede that nothing will ever be as cool as Mordheim when it comes to a fantasy skirmish setting. Mordheim is probably the very best reason to mourn the demise of WHFB's setting. But I have been playing the WHQ games and even some of Bottle's neat skirmish version of AoSHinterland and there is definitely a lot of awesome adventuring to be done across the Mortal Realms. So a campaign-driven skirmish format for AoS? Yes I am down for that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/19 09:39:31
Yeah, my first thought about "Shadespire" and it's rumor coming alongside Armageddon for 40k, was that it was similar product for Age of Sigmar. So a game covering small Mordheim/Hinterlands sized warbands fighting in the Mortal Realms.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2017/03/19 18:23:34
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Eh not really. A given person may not like something from the Original Trilogy but there's no argument about its authentic "SWness" - everything else, by contrast, is measured by the standard set by those films (which is why TFA and R1, for example, are the way they are, for better or worse). But authentic "40kness" is not measured by its fidelity to Rogue Trader or really any other touchstone moment in the franchise and that makes the setting so much easier to expand, which is necessary for a miniatures game product line. Games like X-Wing and Armada are mechanically solid, are available through mainstream retailers, have quality miniatures and components, and one of the most famous IPs of all time, but 40k still dominates the miniatures game market.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/03/19 18:26:06
First, it's not clear that the rumor of some kind of Mordheim release in 2018 has anything to do with this mysterious Shade Spire (Shadespire?) project, right? But even if we assume it's something other than Shade Spire, I think it's a damn good bet that it's set in the AoS ... er time period? rather than in the Old World. OK so straight off the bat, I freely concede that nothing will ever be as cool as Mordheim when it comes to a fantasy skirmish setting. Mordheim is probably the very best reason to mourn the demise of WHFB's setting. But I have been playing the WHQ games and even some of Bottle's neat skirmish version of AoSHinterland and there is definitely a lot of awesome adventuring to be done across the Mortal Realms. So a campaign-driven skirmish format for AoS? Yes I am down for that.
Shadespire is described as a '... fast-paced game of tactical arena combat..." so it doesn't really fit the description of a Mordheim successor.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/03/19 20:45:57
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
By that description, i wonder if they are expanding upon the well received Gorechosen and making an arena combat game that plays similar to Gorechosen but features all AOS factions?
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
2017/03/19 21:24:00
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Starfarer wrote: By that description, i wonder if they are expanding upon the well received Gorechosen and making an arena combat game that plays similar to Gorechosen but features all AOS factions?
Jehan-reznor wrote: I am cautiously excited but i am worried that they will do another scale change like with Adeptus Titanicus.
Would be great to have these Heresy ships and use them in BFG (especially if they would release those
chapter gloriana ships)
I doubt they would rescale the ships, unless the scale of the game itself was to be changed, and that seems unlikely. The fleet-based approach is what sells the game, to me. I passed on the Star Wars fleet game when it turned out to not be a fleet game. Hopefully, the molds for the plastic ships are still kicking around somewhere in GW's warehouse. It's probably unlikely that any of the master models for the other ships may still be around, although the FW guys may still have theirs.
Oh and i have been amassing ships.
Oh, yeah, when GW ditched the Specialist Games section of their store awhile back, I sunk quite a chunk of cash into buying up stuff, from GW US, UK, and even Australia (I got to feel HBMC's pain in reverse, on that last one).
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2017/03/19 23:37:59
Subject: Re:GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
To be a bit off topic, Star Wars Armada is a little more like a fleet game when you discover that a squadron base of fighters is kinda like having an Escort in BFG with multiple hit points. So then, functionally, you might have what is more of a fleet of 3-5 capitol ships and 4-8 "escorts" (with each of those escorts taking multiple hits to kill).
Doesn't stop BFG from being awesome. I have a large Imp fleet and one of Orks about 75% that size, and a few Chaos ships. i have been playing with the idea of kitbashing PHR ships from Dropfleet Commander into an Eldar fleet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/19 23:39:40
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2017/03/19 23:52:21
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Starfarer wrote: By that description, i wonder if they are expanding upon the well received Gorechosen and making an arena combat game that plays similar to Gorechosen but features all AOS factions?
If by "all" you mean Stormcast ...
Funnily enough the Stormcast could've already had their own arena game since a part of their lore is that they do intense training in a arena. (Gifted to them by the Aelves, I believe.)
Anyway, it's a core-set which, along with the plural in worlds, implies expansions.
If a Mordheim version of AoS appears next year then we'll have the Warhammer quest game for heroes, Mordheim and ShadeSpire for warbands and AoS main for small & large armies.
Now we need aerial Man o War for the Overlords and all the in-lore flying armies and we're set.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/19 23:53:56
2017/03/19 23:53:37
Subject: Re:GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
AegisGrimm wrote: To be a bit off topic, Star Wars Armada is a little more like a fleet game when you discover that a squadron base of fighters is kinda like having an Escort in BFG with multiple hit points. So then, functionally, you might have what is more of a fleet of 3-5 capitol ships and 4-8 "escorts" (with each of those escorts taking multiple hits to kill).
Doesn't stop BFG from being awesome. I have a large Imp fleet and one of Orks about 75% that size, and a few Chaos ships. i have been playing with the idea of kitbashing PHR ships from Dropfleet Commander into an Eldar fleet.
Running them using the Craftworld Eldar list, you could probably just use them as is. These aren't mine, but they look awfully close to PHR vessels.
Spoiler:
For that matter, just glue some translucent sails between their wings and they'd look like uparmored Eldar.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2017/03/20 00:42:33
Subject: Re:GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
That's what I was thinking. I don't know about adding sails, but at least PHR have all the vanes and they're covered in gem-like tech-bits. Could headcanon them into solar collection cells rather than sails. Could build a smart little fleet with an escort box and cruiser box.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2017/03/20 03:25:56
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Starfarer wrote: By that description, i wonder if they are expanding upon the well received Gorechosen and making an arena combat game that plays similar to Gorechosen but features all AOS factions?
If the arena itself is much bigger than the one in Gorechosen (or, glory be, double sided!) then I might be interested.
I was initially unimpressed by the size of the Gorechosen arena but it is spot-on, mechanically. Of course, if you want to use it for something besides Gorechosen, that's another matter.
Yes, it's more of a problem of my own creation. I can't fault Gorechosen for having a small arena because that arena was designed for that set of rules, nothing more.
I'm hoping the new Mordheim is set in a post-apocalyptic old world...
BFG in the Heresy era is potentially more exciting than the 40k era... Yes, Traitors and loyalists are using a lot of the same ships... but we will also see even older ships, the sort that didn't necessarily survive to the 40k era... And if they choose to expand it into Xenos, it can be a lot more interesting... the Orks of this era are bigger and have more, they are more embedded and established on the planets of the Heresy era. Eldar are the same. No Necron, Tau, or Nids... but there are other Xenos races that have been eliminated in the intervening millennia that can and do pose existential risk to the Imperium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/20 07:32:43
2017/03/20 08:06:59
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
Atia wrote: Also regarding the battlefleet game - afaik they want to start with the heresy setting, as it's easy to do. To give you some examples - this is similiar to AT and Necromunda. Necromunda needs lots of terrain, so it's easier to use current 40k armies and release the terrain first with Forgeworld supporting Necromunda and the "classic gangs" later - atleast that's the plan afaik. Adeptus Titanicus is easy to do because you only need one army - titans. That said, AT is gonna be big (if it sells) and they want to use it to show all the awesome titans in the background.
So from what I know, the current plan is to do the battlefleet game set in the heresy first because you can start with one fleet and expand later on. Hence I call it Battlefleet Heresy for now (similiar to the working title of the next horus heresy book which was Angelis initially but is now Angelus afaik - or maybe the spelling was of between lis and lus haha^^ - see my comment from february last year http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319621-is-it-confirmed-that-signus-and-thramas-are-same-book/?p=4316361).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/03/24 23:11:11
Subject: GW RUMOURS. Battlefleet Heresy and 'Mordheim' coming from GW.
I really hope new Necromunda gangs from Forge World are in the works. I've spent a small fortune on eBay completing my Goliath, Cawdor and Redemptionist gangs.
The Chaos and Genrstealer cultist models are ace. I see more Space Marine Scouts and Ork Boyz and my eyes kind of glaze over. I understand the need to move product but I'm more interested in seeing under developed corners of the 40k universe. I've been buying various sculpts plastic SM scouts for the last 20+ Years.