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Made in au
Norn Queen






 Peregrine wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Out of interest, how many tables and how big are they at your local store/stores?


Let's see...

Store #1: at least 20-30 6x4 tables, more for major events if they stop normal sales and move the shelves into the back room (which they'll do for the biggest events). They've hosted a 120 person X-Wing regional tournament, and lots of major MTG events. Terrain is probably the limiting factor rather than table space, but they have enough to run a decent sized 40k tournament piled up on the shelves.

Store #2: about 10ish game-sized folding tables, 3-5 of which have nice wood-framed 6x4 boards for miniatures games, and plenty of terrain for simultaneous 40k games on all of them.

Store #3: about 10-20 tables, depending on configuration (they do more MTG than miniatures, but can host 3-5 X-Wing games, a couple of D&D groups, and a 20-30 person MTG tournament at the same time).

Store #4: 2-3 tables, one of which is committed to the newbie demo table (which is hardly ever used, as far as I can tell). GW stores suck.


The only time you get anything the size of store 1 and 3 in Australia is when you rent a hall sized space. No store outside of smaller supermarkets is going to have anywhere near that space and rent would be atrocious. Store 2 is like a once in a blue moon type store, and store 4 is even bigger than most.

You're pretty lucky if store 1 and 3 are the norm in the US and explains why you don't bother with clubs.
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Store about an hour away from me is a bit smaller than his Store #2. Another store a little further from me is a GW store with 2 tables and 1 demo table.

We get capacity on our gaming club pretty much every month. We're contemplating a price hike to put towards terrain.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You're pretty lucky then. Even when I was living in the US there were no stores like that locally (or even within the several nearby towns that I looked at while trying to find places to try a game).


I don't know, it seems like everywhere I've been has at least 5-10 6x4 tables available, even the smaller stores. There might not have been terrain available for all of those tables (I was playing MTG when I visited some of them and didn't pay attention) but the tables were there. MTG keeps stores in business, and you need that much table space to host even a small friday night MTG tournament. The only exception I can think of is the store that had 1-2 6x4 tables and some smaller folding tables for MTG, and that was a small (and not very popular) shop in a 20,000 person town in the middle of nowhere.

Edit: not counting the GW stores, of course. We all know they suck and don't have adequate space as a company policy.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 05:03:26


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You're pretty lucky then. Even when I was living in the US there were no stores like that locally (or even within the several nearby towns that I looked at while trying to find places to try a game).

Perhaps you're just unlucky
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 CrownAxe wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You're pretty lucky then. Even when I was living in the US there were no stores like that locally (or even within the several nearby towns that I looked at while trying to find places to try a game).

Perhaps you're just unlucky
Maybe, I was living in the eastern part of PA, I looked around a bit and the only place I found within maybe an hour or two drive was the GW in Philly. There was a couple of big hobby stores I went to, but they weren't gaming stores, had space enough for race tracks and whatnot, nothing to play a game on though.

Seemed like there was a few places in NJ and NY but they were quite a distance from where I was.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 06:48:59


 
   
Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

Yes and I already do.

As long as the club is orgnised and and does something with the money. My club built terrain and tables, organises gaming space (including bookings) and offers prize support for club campaigns and tourneys.
We have an elected committee that is responsible for all that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 08:28:04


Nightstalkers Dwarfs
GASLANDS!
Holy Roman Empire  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheltenham, UK

I wrote an article about how to start a wargames club a few years ago for the now-defunct Ancible magazine. I've updated it slightly (incorporating the new DBS rules for UK clubs) and re-posted it to the Dakka articles section:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ace_of_Clubs_-_Part_1_-_Starting_a_Wargaming_Club

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Background checks - or rather the hassle of arranging them - was one reason that our club is over-18s (unless they're with a parent). The other being that we all wanted to game away from children - otherwise we'd be in GW, whose late opening is the same night as our club anyway.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






From what I can tell, the dynamic here in the states is much different than anywhere else in the world. Pay-to-play does not work here in the USA - not on any level, not even clubs.

The internet community sadly gives false hope that such a thing could exist here in the USA. The concept seems benign when discussing it online, but when put into practice and the time comes to pay-up... Players vanish like smoke in the wind.

@OP: I see your location. I'm about 40 miles north of you. I can commiserate. We have a plethora of game stores surrounding us, but sadly none of them actively support Warhammer 40,000 or Warhammer: AoS in any meaningful way.

There was a heyday for Warhammer in all its forms in Eastern PA, and only just a few years ago. Sadly things became so caustic (for multiple reasons, but mostly because of tournament play) that it became a massive deterrent for new players and destroyed whole communities. I could go on and on, but that's not what this thread is about.
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior




 oni wrote:

There was a heyday for Warhammer in all its forms in Eastern PA, and only just a few years ago. Sadly things became so caustic (for multiple reasons, but mostly because of tournament play) that it became a massive deterrent for new players and destroyed whole communities. I could go on and on, but that's not what this thread is about.


Hmm how many is just a few years? I either was part of this or was part of the one that happened before this one.

Probably the one before, or just a different part of eastern pa cause the heyday Im refferring to was more like 15 years ago now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/27 20:28:18


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Getting a solid steady club together is the first step. The logistics of scenery, add ons, special values/ discounts, T Shirts, etc.... THAT comes into play when you get the club.
The Venue is second, honestly. You can start in a local game store, or in a local house, such as a bar, or a community center, or a Library. Only after you get established, you should get in on renting a bigger boat.
Right now, if you start with ten or so folk, you can manager with the Community Center, or the local Library. The reason for the club, too. maybe start with a sit down with all involved and shoot out a Club paper, website, local coop events, swap meets, general good looking advert papers, etc....

Why do I want the club- to get gamers together for a weekly/ biweekly game night.
What are the benefits- local crew to play steady with, and we can get pizza's, sandwiches, etc. Go to cons, game events, tournies,. etc. We can put out a newsletter with a weekly schedule of games we play, If you want to experiment. paint, we can have new guy nights/ days, paint events, scenery events, etc....
Etc.Etc.Etc....


You get a hook, throw out the bait, and get the team together....

20 buck entry fee. You get a T shirt, and a card. You can add in some hook, such as talk with your store for a discount for the club, or take it farther, such as club personalized gear, shirts, hats stickers, etc. Game testing for companies, local representation for companies events, or painting contests supported by "Danger Club Xtream baby" or whatever the name is. You can push it further and get in on joint ventures, such as contributions to KS's, painting services, teaching events, ( We run X wing once a week on THURS, come on out and learn to play...) Painting teaching events, swap meat Friday, Etc.Etc.Etc....

Rules and by laws, dues, cooperation on focus, functions, and field work.....

Your setting up a cooperative group, so it goes to the imagination how far you want to go, but Paying up front for an open forum s a no go. 1. No regulars, you don't even know who is going to show. 2. No focus. You have a place to play games..... then it goes to ask a lot more on why your paying for that.... 3. You have no juice yet, so no one knows who this crew is, so you got a place just for 2-3 people at best, and 2-3 people bring 2-3 different games...



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

Advertise and gather some interest and get some cheap space. Just to clarify for our American friends incase of any misconception in the UK clubs are usually in musty church/community halls or the backroom of a pub not usually grand meeting venues or the like. The point being that the venue is not so important as getting people there and literally haveing tables and chairs.

Then prepare for the thankless task of holding everyone's hands and doing all the running until such time as you have enough people for a committee that will share responsibilties.

OP you really have to be prepared to do everything for an extended period. New community projects like this hang off of strong leadership and are plagued by many people that want to be part, have "good" ideas but probably will not help organise much (even if they say they will). If the club is available they will use it and be part of the community but initially many people will not be that helpful until you have some momentum going. Once you have this and people start to see themselves as regulars they will take some ownership and some responsibility, until then the club will look to the organise to hold their hand.

Gamers are particuly flaky and quite often cheap so this may well feel a bit wearisome but community projects rely on a focal point until and often beyond the point where they have their own legs.

How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Personally I absolutely hate the game store mentality that you see and I would support anything to put that outdated Concept in the ground. I have seen too many stores that form cliques where one person only and staff of course are authorized to run things for games and no one else is allowed to and bring in a game from outside is frowned upon and basically being at the stores bidding regardless of whether you are a club or not it is ridiculous to me and as a concept that should never have taken off and now has infested the mindset of Gamers mostly in the US where they feel the only way to play a game is to play at a store

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






Tables in a game store sounds crazy expensive to me, I've seen a couple of stores in this country with 1 or max 2 tables but to have 10-20... how can they afford the rent without charging for them? Are they out in the industrial district? Are they attached to huge stores that also have huge international web shops? I imagine they must either be swimming in cash or be very inconveniently located.. In any case, I imagine a city with three such stores must be one of the few places in the world even approaching that kind of availability.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/04 14:19:06


 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

My initial thought is that I wouldn't pay much to game at a club (maybe $10-20 a month). However, when I consider how much money and time I've spent on terrain building for my club that only meets at member's homes every other thursday, maybe a paid game club membership would be worth spending a bit of cash on. I think it'd be hard to start something here in Chicagoland with so many shops having table space though.

 Mymearan wrote:
Tables in a game store sounds crazy expensive to me, I've seen a couple of stores in this country with 1 or max 2 tables but to have 10-20... how can they afford the rent without charging for them? Are they out in the industrial district? Are they attached to huge stores that also have huge international web shops? I imagine they must either be swimming in cash or be very inconveniently located.. In any case, I imagine a city with three such stores must be one of the few places in the world even approaching that kind of availability.


In many areas of the USA there is enough affordable retail or industrial space for a store to have significant gaming area. Some stores are successfull enough to have such even in a town shopping district. In the Chicago area, I can think of at least 4 shops off-hand that have tablespace for at lesat 10 wargames and a few others that have at least 4-6 tables. Shops like Chicagoland Games Dice Dojo and Games Plus have quite a few more than that and are located in real estate that is not undesirable. These are shops that tend to sell and host a combination of minis games, boardgames and CCG's.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 19:44:23


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Mymearan wrote:
Tables in a game store sounds crazy expensive to me, I've seen a couple of stores in this country with 1 or max 2 tables but to have 10-20... how can they afford the rent without charging for them? Are they out in the industrial district? Are they attached to huge stores that also have huge international web shops? I imagine they must either be swimming in cash or be very inconveniently located.. In any case, I imagine a city with three such stores must be one of the few places in the world even approaching that kind of availability.


Land is cheap in the US and it's assumed that everyone has a car, so unless you're looking at a high-traffic or high-prestige area even fairly modest stores still have a lot of floor space. And that's true of retail in general, not just game stores, space is just cheap in general if you want it. None of the stores I mentioned are in the highest-tier malls, but none of them are out in awful industrial areas or anything. They're in the kind of strip malls where your local grocery store might be.

And it's probably worth noting that the only store that doesn't have substantial gaming space is the GW store. It's company policy to only have 2-3 tables (one of which is a permanent demo table and not available), but they're also the only store that can't milk the MTG cash cow to pay the bills. Every other store is running multiple MTG events every week, has shelves full of board games for the more casual gamers, etc. It's a lot easier to buy space when you have a diverse range of products for sale instead of a single brand selling at full MSRP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/05 10:15:39


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

 Peregrine wrote:

And it's probably worth noting that the only store that doesn't have substantial gaming space is the GW store. It's company policy to only have 2-3 tables (one of which is a permanent demo table and not available), but they're also the only store that can't milk the MTG cash cow to pay the bills. Every other store is running multiple MTG events every week, has shelves full of board games for the more casual gamers, etc. It's a lot easier to buy space when you have a diverse range of products for sale instead of a single brand selling at full MSRP.


As well as the real estate costs, this is probably the most salient point. I've not seen a game store (at least not one that lasts) that doesn't have MTG events and board games and also deal somewhat in MTG singles.

Most around here do seem to avoid Pokemon however, as that attracts a younger crowd which seems to be served mostly by comic shops. As for GW shops, as well as their odd one-person sales-force, they also seem to be often located in indoor shopping malls with higher rent and much smaller space.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/05 13:58:25


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
 
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