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 humanas wrote:
In regards to transports, what happens to passengers when a transport is locked in combat? Can they disembark and then the trasport can fall back? And if so, can they act normally or they count as having fall back to?

My Berzerkers would like to know the answer to that as well.

 Reecius wrote:
I will look into the lack of a Dynasty keyword topic. I believe they can still ride in a transport due to being Necrons as they share that Keyword but we will see.

At the moment, the wording for the Monolith, Night Scythe, and Ghost Ark all say they can only move infantry with the <Dynasty> faction keyword (eg. "setup any number of <DYNASTY> INFANTRY on their tomb world" or "Ghost Ark can transport 10 <DYNASTY> INFANTRY models"). For some of the named HQ, like Zahndrekh or Orikan, no prob, they've got a Dynasty faction keyword in their profile already (Sautekh), so they can use them with zero issue. For things like Warriors or the generic HQ with the <Dynasty> faction keyword in their dataslate, okay, cool, so they just take on whatever Dynasty you want, eg. Sautekh, or RandomSpaceEgyptianName and they're fine to use it. But for Anrakyr, Szeras, and Praetorians, they lack ANY Dynasty faction keyword in their info. It only says "Necrons". RAW, it appears they can't use ANYTHING to get around. For Praetorians it's not so bad, they're pretty fast. But for the other two it's making it a lot more difficult to warrant taking them if they have no choice but to slowly walk up the table.

*sigh*
Sorry, just a little frustrated. I realize everyone is having issues, too, though. Those new codex can't come soon enough...

Anyway, looking forward to checking out the AM vs Necrons batrep! (am predicting a crushing victory to the Guard)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
[edit] Just watched the fight... Wow.

 humanas wrote:
In regards to transports, what happens to passengers when a transport is locked in combat? Can they disembark and then the trasport can fall back? And if so, can they act normally or they count as having fall back to?

I couldn't find the transport rules interacting with any others. In a game yesterday my Tactical Squad Fell Back out of combat and into a Razorback that was still within 1". I hope I didn't miss a restriction but I didn't see one.

Battle report outcome spoiler:

I kinda feel like that Chaos army Frankie was running in the other match would have been pretty solid against that AM list..maybe.. I really am enjoying watching these matches. It's filling in a lot of blanks and looks like it's helping pinpoint some misinterpretations or at least muddy wording

@Cthulu's Spy

Ah, nice catch then! Will take note of that, buddy.

@MLaw

Yeah, I tried every permutation of Orks I could think of. I prefer Speed Freaks, love me some Trukk Boyz, but as of now I think that pure Speed Freaks is a weaker way to play Orks but still very good as Orks are so good. I tried running all Elite Orks and it worked quite well, too.

Horde Orks is amazingly good. As you all have seen, even pure Kan Wall is solid. Orks are just good.

@Humanas

Good question. That is a big adjustment. If you surround a vehicle, unless it can move over enemy units (Fly keyword, for example) it is stuck, lol. And, the passengers cannot get out. It is pretty crappy when this happens. In testing, I surrounded a Land Raider full of Assault Centurions with Hormagants and it couldn't shoot, move or let out its occupants for 3 turns. Calgar had to run over and kill the Gants to get them off of the Land Raider.

That takes some getting used to.

@Skoffs

Yeah, that is a weird one, I will see if I can get an answer for that ASAP. I would say for now though, off the cuff just allow them to ride in a Transport. I would guess that they should have a Dynasty keyword and it was an error of omission.

That is frustrating though, I agree.

And yeah, that game was rough. I think Frankie was a little rusty with Crons, honestly. In our previous games they were very tough, and the fights very close. That was our first blowout and unfortunately it was on camera =(

@Axisofentropy

That is correct.

@Eylio

I feel your frustration, but I wouldn't worry too much. In our games, Crons do well, they can struggle with vehicle armies, though as you saw. But, to be fair, a lot went wrong. I seized the initiative, Frankie flubbed a lot of early rolls, etc. That wasn't the best list either, IMO, and things went south. We'll play more Crons, they're quite good! Don't lose heart, friend.

@MLaw

Yeah, the Chaos army, particularly going first, would do very well against my Astra Militarum list.

Glad you're enjoying the games! We've got another tonight, Nids vs. Ultramarines!

Lists here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/08/40k-8th-ed-battle-report-ultramarines-vs-tyranids/

I think you forgot to update the text on the banner.
Unless tyranids are now necrons. Which considering people's comments on the motivation of third ed necrons, might not actually be that far off
The next time you play necrons, can we see more vehicles? The annihilation barge looks weak on paper in particular.

So the question didn't really get answered but I guess it got answered but I'll ask again:

If a transport is locked in combat and the occupants have room to get out, CAN they? Meaning if my Rhino of Berzerkers is not surrounded, it was just bumped by another Rhino or something, can the Berzerker's leave the Rhino at the start of my move phase even though the Rhino is stuck in combat with another Rhino?

@Cthulu's Spy

Yes, lol, Mariana forgot to change the text

And sure, the vehicles are quite good. We will play more of them.

@Andysonic

Ah, sorry, didn't catch that bit.

If the vehicle is in combat but there is space to get out, yes, you can. But remember, you first disembark the unit from the vehicle (all models must be within 3") and they cannot be within 1" of enemy models. Then they can move, etc. So, it just depends on how much the vehicle is surrounded.

You have to be very mindful of this when barreling up the table with your Zerkers (or whatever) as the canny player can deny you the ability to get out fairly easily if you position them poorly.

@Reecius

How's about next time you guys feature Necrons we see you take them for a whirl?

@Reecius: In the stream tonight you talked about deploying 10 chars in a transport counting as one drop. A few days ago one of the GW folks in their stream mentioned that a unit in a transport counted as two drops. Is there something in the rulebook you can point me to that lays it out? (I couldn't find anything)

 skoffs wrote:

skarsol wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
The only LD 10 units I have seen are mindless beings like scarabs. Even Chapter Masters only have 9.

A good number of Daemon characters have LD10.

Literally every Necron unit EXCEPT for Imotekh has LD 10.
(and he's supposed to be the current supreme leader of their Dynasty!)

Being a the supreme leader doesn't mean you are the best leader

@skoffs

Be happy to, the Juntikrons will rise again!

@skarsol

Interesting, they sometimes say things incorrectly on the stream when they're on the spot (which is totally understandable) but, I can try to confirm this as it is possible I am simply wrong (although I do not believe so).

Glad you're enjoying the games! We've got another tonight, Eldar vs. Space Wolves!

Lists here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/09/friday-night-fight-eldar-vs-space-wolves/

@Reecius, can you comment generally on how different units are in codices from the index?

 Rippy wrote:
@Reecius, can you comment generally on how different units are in codices from the index?

Ohh this is an interesting question!

I'm especially interested in death guard, and if they are viable with their upcoming codex! I'm having trouble to find answers to tyranid swarms currently (I get overwhelmed after exocrines kill all my heavy hitters)

I cannot say guys, sorry =(

Glad you're enjoying the games! We've got another tonight, Eldar vs. Space Wolves!

Lists here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/13/tuesday-night-fight-tau-vs-orks/

Check your PMs Reecius. Or scroll down the chat when you ask for clarification on questions!

@Skarsol

I have 88 unread Private Messages on Dakka, lol. I just don't have time to read them, sorry.

You can email me with a question if you have one. But I will try to be more diligent in chat, haha, I can't really manipulate the chat box while playing though, we have to have someone on hand to moderate it which we did not last night. Thanks for the feedback, though.

Really hope you don't roll the killpoint mission for this one, Reece.

Thanks for running a mixed Ork list.. I've been extremely curious about many of the units in that list. Would've been nice to see a BW in there but that's a lot of units I enjoy taking so it'll be great to watch them smash the fish'eds

Are the Tau's Devilfish and Hammerheads viable? I built my Tau a loooong time ago so most of my collection is those, suits, warriors, and piranhas (back when they sold the bundle of 5 ).. oh and Vespids :/ Not sure those guys are worth taking either..

@JohnU

lol, me too! But,the T'au list has a lot, too. I think I'd be OK if I could keep my characters hidden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@MLaw

Yeah, Orks are so damn good in 8th, you are spoiled for choice.

The Battlewagon is absolutely awesome. I run it with a Deff Rolla and it hits on 2's in melee, haha. Typically I stick Lootas, Flash Gitz, Tank Bustas or Burna Boyz in it and that combo of the two is savage. However, there are plenty of other ways to play it.

Devilfish are solid. They put out decent firepower and get you around the table. With Breachers they perform well.

Hammerheads with Longstrike are solid. I prefer the Ion Cannon but we have ours modeled with a Rail Cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Getting ready for the stream!

Really confused on what exactly the issue was on the big guns.. I know generally what you guys were hung up on but I am not sure what the specific issue was.

I will say though.. that unless GW has dropped the golden rule.. you guys should have D6'd that debate. I know you probably think you were right but it was really bad form IMO to insist that it be played that way when you both openly admitted there was confusion on the issue and that it needed clarification.. just my .02.

Can we get another necron batrep?

@MLaw

The issue with the Big Guns only mattered really due to Kill Points and how to actually shoot the unit(s). It was really confusing in how it was written, neither of us knew the correct interpretation and honestly didn't even have 2 options to dice it off over. And, moreover, that wasn't the point honestly, we're trying to teach folks how to play. And what was bad form? Trying to move things forward? I didn't want to get bogged down in a debate on a live show is all and if yo know Pablo like I do, lol, he loves to debate so it would have never ended. I didn't give a hoot about being right or winning the game, I was more concerned with keeping the show moving forward and just coming up with a ruling we could work with (which, by the way, was in my opponent's favor, not mine). I understand what you're saying but a show were two folks sit and debate a vague rule is not exactly entertaining, haha. That said, thank you for your feedback.

@Grimgold

If you are a subscriber to our Twitch Channel, you can vote on the participants in the next night's game =)


Glad you're enjoying the games! We've got another tonight, Scions vs. Tyranids!

Lists here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/14/wednesday-night-fight-scions-vs-tyranids/

skarsol wrote:
Ah okay. I'm just salty that they screwed over the Daemons prince like that.

Mathmatically the CD DP of nurgle with Disgusting Resilience has effectively 15 wounds.
The *time to live* formula for them is increased by 50% due to the 1/3 of saves.
Because the Disgusting Resilience is taken vs every wound suffered, it means that it's more stable than another saving throw. If you take 3 wounds, you are likely to only suffer 2.
It also can work against mortal wounds. This is huge.

I ran a test list with my buddy Pat where I brought 9 DPs of Nurgle an Be'Lakor. Hilarity ensued as I was spamming smite and facerolling his marine bikes. We played 3 games in a row and I tabled him 3 times in a row.
The DP is one of the all-stars in the CD codex (which has many lackluster units).


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 theharrower wrote:
Here's the rule as written:

Units with this ability always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

So if the Daemonettes get charged by 2 units, player who charged picks 1 unit and attacks. Then the Daemonettes go. Then the last unit that charged goes. Seems pretty clear.

Which is still pretty damn sweet.
Can they burn 2 CP to jump and get the first attack?

Hey Reece,

Can you do a battle report using Power Levels? I'm curious to see how that would turn out. Also what are your thoughts on them?

Thanks

 Reecius wrote:
@MLaw

The issue with the Big Guns only mattered really due to Kill Points and how to actually shoot the unit(s). It was really confusing in how it was written, neither of us knew the correct interpretation and honestly didn't even have 2 options to dice it off over. And, moreover, that wasn't the point honestly, we're trying to teach folks how to play. And what was bad form? Trying to move things forward? I didn't want to get bogged down in a debate on a live show is all and if yo know Pablo like I do, lol, he loves to debate so it would have never ended. I didn't give a hoot about being right or winning the game, I was more concerned with keeping the show moving forward and just coming up with a ruling we could work with (which, by the way, was in my opponent's favor, not mine). I understand what you're saying but a show were two folks sit and debate a vague rule is not exactly entertaining, haha. That said, thank you for your feedback.

@Grimgold

If you are a subscriber to our Twitch Channel, you can vote on the participants in the next night's game =)


Glad you're enjoying the games! We've got another tonight, Scions vs. Tyranids!

Lists here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/14/wednesday-night-fight-scions-vs-tyranids/

My point was, historically, when there is an area of contention in rules, and you cannot reach a mutually agreed on conclusion, you roll a d6. For me watching the video, you were basically "it's my way or the highway" about how to interpret it.. Take that as you will, I'm an outsider looking in here. I would say though I would've knocked your sportsmanship for that if we were playing in a RTT.. if that's even still a thing

 labmouse42 wrote:

skarsol wrote:
Ah okay. I'm just salty that they screwed over the Daemons prince like that.

Mathmatically the CD DP of nurgle with Disgusting Resilience has effectively 15 wounds.
The *time to live* formula for them is increased by 50% due to the 1/3 of saves.
Because the Disgusting Resilience is taken vs every wound suffered, it means that it's more stable than another saving throw. If you take 3 wounds, you are likely to only suffer 2.
It also can work against mortal wounds. This is huge.

I ran a test list with my buddy Pat where I brought 9 DPs of Nurgle an Be'Lakor. Hilarity ensued as I was spamming smite and facerolling his marine bikes. We played 3 games in a row and I tabled him 3 times in a row.
The DP is one of the all-stars in the CD codex (which has many lackluster units).

Alas, I play Slaanesh, so 10 wounds is just 10 wounds. Pricing/statting the DP as if it always has DR is a bad job. Perhaps the gifts needed to be equipment with a different price for each god.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 theharrower wrote:
Here's the rule as written:

Units with this ability always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

So if the Daemonettes get charged by 2 units, player who charged picks 1 unit and attacks. Then the Daemonettes go. Then the last unit that charged goes. Seems pretty clear.

Which is still pretty damn sweet.
Can they burn 2 CP to jump and get the first attack?

No, you can only trigger the Stratagem "after an enemy unit that charged has fought".

@Crimson Devil

You will probably never see a tournament run on Power Levels. I could be wrong for sure, maybe in a learning league or something, but Power Levels are for like, casual games, Apocalypse, etc. For matched play it will be points.

Now, that said, we are planning an Apoc game with really big armies and will use Power Level for that where it speeds things up and keeps it roughly equal which would be super fun.

@MLaw

I understand what you're saying, and agree. I would never do that in a tournament, haha, for the purpose of having an educational and fun stream, I was just trying to move things along. As stated, Pablo will debate on and on because he enjoys it and knowing him, I simply wanted to move things along. And as I said, the ruling I offered up was in his favor, lol, so I was boning myself just to get things moving along so we could get on with the game.

I appreciate the feedback though, genuinely. Don't mean to come across as mean of what have you, that wasn't the goal.

@Skarsol

Yes, but you still have a 5++ so thos 10 wounds are actually 15 =P

 Reecius wrote:

@Skarsol

Yes, but you still have a 5++ so thos 10 wounds are actually 15 =P

The Chaos Space Marine Prince has that same 5++, so can't use that to explain why the CD one got stuck with 10 wounds.