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Made in gb
Captain




London

OgreChubbs wrote:
Then for actual history miniatures, they are boring as old hell they all look the same with different paint scheme.


Care to explain how this is different from space marines, which are all the same with different paint schemes?
   
Made in gb
Furious Fire Dragon





 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
Then for actual history miniatures, they are boring as old hell they all look the same with different paint scheme.


Care to explain how this is different from space marines, which are all the same with different paint schemes?


I refer you to how Dr Azreal13's earlier diagnosed the fervent 40k's frothers ability to regard things as exactly the same and totally different at the same time

And whilst historical gaming isn't my cup of tea I really admire that in 35 odds years of gaming I've never seen an unpainted model in a historical game

"Well, erm, hmm, its alright. We've got understatement. We have strong prevailing South Westerly winds. 52% of our days are overcast, so as a nation we're infused with a wistful melancholy. But we remain a relentlessly chipper population, prone to mild eccentricity, binge drinking and casual violence"
 
   
Made in es
Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I'm pretty sure it'll hurt their competitors much like 4th ed. D&D hurt it's competitors....oh wait....yeah not hurt...invigorate. That's the word. Because so far the new rules kinda look simplistic and sucky like AoS. The new no template stuff is awful. I mean have you seen the battlecannon's stats. Guard are going to get hosed, horde armies, hosed, still not convinced the new flamer rules is that good. RUN IS STILL A FETHING THING AS IS OVERWATCH! GOD ****ING MOTHER****ING BULLMULARKY!

Ahem....no armor values because little Timmy can't do math anymore. A very stupid system where 'everything can hurt everything'

Also Plague Marines and Space Marines in the starter....-_-....Booooooooooo. Boooooooo I say. Oh and the new 'power level' thing is dumb as hell too.

Why is it so hard to see, that what would draw people back is clean up the special rules, and roll back EVERYTHING to 3rd. ed. Put a new coat of paint and boom you're done. Don't change a thing after that for about 5-7 years before the next edition.


And a bunch of games do have run moves. In fact this is far better because you only have to move ONE time your minis. And plague marines are something people have wanted for many years.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

The plague marine thing is just personal aesthetics. But I despise the run mechanic if it wasn't random, it wouldn't be too bad, but I hate it with a passion. But then again I hate random charges and overwatch too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 06:28:03


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Made in au
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Melbourne .au

Ignoring both people's fanboi-reactions and short-sighted AoS-bitching, the "hurt" will really only apply to those games that are direct competitors and those who wish to be so.

To wit: 40k in 6th and 7th edition is in a really bad place right now. A horrible, bloated, complicated (as opposed to complex) ruleset with too many exceptions, and exceptions to those exceptions. It needs to go, and as it happens right now, ripping the band-aid right off and rebooting the whole thing is the best way to go about it. Naturally, some people will dislike the changes, ragequit, sell their armies or even post mildly idiotic videos on YouTube of them immolating their armies (or perhaps themselves with them, accidentally). I think those people will be more than be made up for new players and returning players - particularly if they add a lower bar to entry by following part of the AoS model - something like having the Dataslates for models available for free on the website along with the rules as either an inexpensive purchase or free PDF. The AoS release was so badly handled. Silly rules (ignoring bases), no points... I could go on, but we all know the story here. GW has clearly learned a lot from the way that they did that, and with them now demonstrating a capacity to learn, involve the community in playtesting (first time for everything!) and a CEO who isn't arrogant and contemptuous towards his customers I don't see them making the same mistakes, and actively seeking to avoid the worst and harness the best of the current state of AoS with streamlined rules and more straightforward gameplay overall. Doesn't mean it'll be perfect, and I'm sure they'll have missteps, but balancing everything from scratch and a GHB-model to points allows them to modify and re-balance models and units more dynamically, rather than codices being set in stone until the next go-round of the power spiral of codex releases...

The games that will be hurt would be games like (as mentioned earlier) Gates of Antares, Maelstrom's Edge and particularly - Mantic's WarPath & Firefight. If 40k is no longer a clusterfeth with bad rules, you no longer need an alternative to 40k.

On the other hand - and especially long-term - a renewed 40k stands to benefit pretty much everybody. Pretty much all of the historical games I know and of my vintage started with Fantasy and/or 40k. If you like Historical gaming like Bolt Action, or SAGA, or Crossfire, or Hail Caesar et al, then playing 40k doesn't scratch that same itch. and it's entirely possible to keep armies for and play both. The same applies to the various Fantasy or sci-fi skirmish games - Malifaux, Dark Age, TINAT, Frostgrave, etc are a very different experience to 40k in both style and scope - not to mention model commitment. So 40k doesn't directly compete with those, but it does bring in new gamers - many of which over time will be exposed to these other games and add to the overall pool of Miniatures Gamers across the board.

   
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[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

You and your words and sensigle analysis. Pfft I say.

One thing that hurt Warpath in the past was Warpath itself. It was simple, but very clunky. Close combat was a weird ballet of indecision. You can quote me on that.

Turnip Jedi: Good point in regards to historical players' attention to detail and desire to present a unified look. We had a Quaterly kit 2 weeks ago during a Warmachine night and a)the other players though it was 40K so they kept asking me if I still understood everything and b)nary a painted or primed figure in sight.

If I can purchase the rules at a decent price, and I can get my unit profiles easily, then I'll at least keep an open mind.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NoVA

I know it kinda killed my urge to play Firefight.

I stopped playing 40k around the time they started releasing expensive, hardbound supplements to codexes. That, combined with the Tau (right before the wraithknight came out) was enough to kill my urge. 40k is one of my favorite settings, but GW was vomiting out rules at a very fast pace with very high prices.

I think Firefight has better rules than 40k. Even the tidbits of 8th, I think Firefight is better.

However, the mythology of the Eldar Gods, the C'tan, the Chaos Gods.... that's what sucks me in.

I plan on coming back with 8th. Streamlined and less expensive rules is exactly what I was looking for.

Playing: Twilight Kin (KoW), Legion of Azgorh (AoS)
Working on: Basilea (KoW), Legion of Azgorh (AoS), Asterians (Firefight and Dreadball)
 
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

Now that GW has pulled their head out of their ass and is making awesome rules and solid balance, I'm sure many leavers will come back and many new players will pick 40K.

If you ask me, the new edition will be a total mess with loop holes, gaps, OP and underwhelming units/models.
I see no reason why GW should make a better rule set than the editions before.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Hellacious Havoc






Tacoma, WA

To be honest, Warhammer 40K is a fall back game for when I want something a little more lighthearted. I consider myself mostly a historical miniatures wargamer even if it is more arcade style historicals.

As the weather improves and the garage becomes comfortable gaming place, I plan on getting in more World War II, maybe even a few AWI games, and a whole lot less 40K even with 8th edition around the corner.

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Suddenly a force field has erupted to prevent me from playing other games.

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Such Guard






Much Front Wow

Putting the specific question of 40k 8e aside, I think a suddenly likable, responsive GW making a variety of quality product types that mutually reinforce one another means companies like PP have a lot less room to feth up.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






 Manchu wrote:
Putting the specific question of 40k 8e aside, I think a suddenly likable, responsive GW making a variety of quality product types that mutually reinforce one another means companies like PP have a lot less room to feth up.


Their attitude towards online and brick and mortar stores has a lot to do with things too. GW having better relationships with them will help. I do know that most of my local FLGS are not going to start carrying any GW even with 8th, that could make it fail here as much as AoS did.
   
Made in au
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Melbourne .au

I'm sure that people in your local area know how to use online stores to purchase goods. Your local stores almost undoubtedly make more money from CCGs, but if there's demand for a product and they're not even attempting to meet it, it's simply turnover they're not making.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Now that GW has pulled their head out of their ass and is making awesome rules and solid balance, I'm sure many leavers will come back and many new players will pick 40K.

If you ask me, the new edition will be a total mess with loop holes, gaps, OP and underwhelming units/models.
I see no reason why GW should make a better rule set than the editions before.


They've been playtesting the gak out of it for a year, including with external bodies such as tournament peoples. I am more optimistic for this forthcoming edition than I have been in many, many years. Of course, you're under no obligation to change from 7th, or start playing 40k (or whatever) either way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:47:14


   
Made in us
Drakhun





Eaton Rapids, MI

As someone who quit 40k when 6e hit. I have been looking at this release optimistically My biggest issue is the cost of buying back into the system (as I sold all of my GW stuff back then). I look at the website and figure that I'd be in for at least $600 if not $1000 and that's a huge chunk of money to drop on plastic crack.

I hope that GW does well with this release. More games being played in the stores is good for everyone. A vibrant GW scene at the games store is always welcome. It won't make people leave other games (for the most part), but heck, if the stores make more money, it helps us keep our places to play.

As to OP, It's not going to hurt the competition. PP has been around for 10+ years. Infinity is solid. Kickstarted mini games are still raking in cash. People have seen the options out there, and they are pretty good. Board Games are booming. It's a great time to be a gamer!

Now with 100% more blog....

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Made in fr
Stinky Spore



France

morgoth wrote:

Now that GW has pulled their head out of their ass and is making awesome rules and solid balance, I'm sure many leavers will come back and many new players will pick 40K.

How much do you think this will ruin the day of games like WMH which can't compete on models and only ever grew like weeds because GW wasn't tending their backyard.

I personally think they're going to see a solid drop around the launch and then a continuous loss of popularity as even the most entrenched 40k haters go back to the miniatures they truly love.

It's less clear that it would affect micro games like x wing though but they're not in the same category imo, that's more BFG.


I think they have to do something about their big prices, that's what cause the reject for most of people i think, and that's why we don't get new players that much.

But the simplification of rules will clearly help to keep people in the game.

40k: 10 000 Ork,3000 Tau,2000 Deathwatch
AOS:2000 Kharadrons Overlords 
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

But the simplification of rules will clearly help to keep people in the game.

I don't thinks that we will see a simplification of the rules and balance of the whole system.
My conjecture is that balancing a table top game is an NP-hard problem. So with large number of models, units, and rules, balancing is not attainable.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tampa, FL

 wuestenfux wrote:
But the simplification of rules will clearly help to keep people in the game.

I don't thinks that we will see a simplification of the rules and balance of the whole system.
My conjecture is that balancing a table top game is an NP-hard problem. So with large number of models, units, and rules, balancing is not attainable.


I disagree because a game like Warmahordes (the only real example I'm familiar with) has a lot more actual interactions than 40k, and with some exceptions tends to be fairly close in balance (there are still imbalances, of course, but they aren't nearly as bad as you found in 7th edition 40k). The issue is that 40k focuses on minutiae, e.g. a ton of tiny little things, so it's more bloat than synergy and interaction.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





Houston, TX

GW has a lot of problems that a fix on a badly aging system won't address. Historically, 40k has seen incremental changes, but relies on a fundamentally dated model. This hasn't been a primary concern as GW's primary focus is model sales and the rules are merely a vehicle to push those sales. Overpriced rulebooks requiring numerous army codex supplements, a large price of entry, and the work needed for assembly/painting/etc. are all tremendous barriers to entry. In the meantime, numerous other companies has stepped in.

With AOS, GW showed that they understood that a bloated, clunky game that required a large number of models was costing them sales. A stripped down, quick playing ruleset with a more free form force approach was coupled with new model aesthetics to push it out of the generic fantasy mold, and it seems to be working.

40k seems to be addressing mechanics that only matter to existing players. Fixing shooting targeting rules or messing with grenades doesn't really address the problem that 40k is still a stodgy IGOUGO model that requires way to much for a light game, but not sound enough to be a "serious" simulation (and that is a pretty narrow niche of gaming anyway). It really needs to be stripped down ala AoS (despite the gnashing and wailing by grognards) and encourage mixing factions, playing lower model games, etc. If they do this, I expect they will see an increase in sales (though doubling is laughably unrealistic). If not, their improved and expanded kits will likely retain players, but not be a big driver of expansion. Remember always that GW is a model selling company and the rules are, at best, secondary.

From a financial perspective, trying to get back old players is unlikely a sound strategy. Players who already have a bunch of models aren't the target and many who quit have moved on to other games. The new models are as likely to get some back as anything. The rules need to be approachable for new players.

One of GW's big challenges is that, as the big kid on the block, they have significant costs compared to smaller companies and are generally less nimble and responsive to changes. So they have to find ways to keep primary revenue streams while also seeking new ones and expanding existing streams. Given that the miniature market has faced profound changes (much like other retail chains), this can present quite a challenge. GW has stumbled with handling internet sales, and as brick and mortars continue to falter, it's whole model is at risk. While games like X-Wing can flourish in other retailers and find outlets in non-niche stores, GW is stuck with a small number of hobby outlets and narrows it with restrictive terms. So even if GW's new attitude helps with it's pool of retailers, it is still a small pool with limited consumer access.

In terms of IP, GW also has the challenge that it's products are traditionally highly derivative of other sources. Now that top tier IPs like Star Wars, Star Wars, LoTR, etc. are fully exploiting the market, GW has to make itself attractive. AoS showed they understand this and are heavily pushing their revamped imaging of the WH world. 40k, likewise, seems to be leaning towards its more unique elements and getting away from its more obvious references. Licensing has also been flourishing, though it seems like the quality of some licensed products may be dropping, which could damage the value going forward.

-James
 
   
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Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

The OP makes a TON of assumptions.

The competition will continue to exist if only because for some crazy reason GW continues to sell single models for what we were paying for Battleforces/Battalions not too long ago. Wait, it's because the loyalists will pay whatever is asked. Granted, every loyalist has a budget breaking point, and you aren't going to get the diehards from old to suddenly place 3X the intrinsic value on the game. Oldhammer and Classichammer exist for a reason. Pricing people out will stop sales to even the older systems, I don't think the competition has anything to worry about there.

Quality of product. Bugbear. There are model makers who are the peers or even superior the the Church of Citadel's model makers. Personal preference is NOT empirical data when it comes to aesthetic.

Some people moved on because of the rules themselves. IGOUGO has SEVERAL detractors, and those people won't come back unless EVERY other option is crushed. Even then, if someone hates IGOUGO, there is always console gaming. That's the real time that people are hankering for, and no table ruleset will ever get it down. I personally think that IGOUGO isn't going to get crushed at all. Remember Warzone? Remember how a very vocal group was swearing up and down that its revolutionary rule system was going to dethrone GW? I'm still waiting on that.





In short, I don't see much changing. If anything, there may yet be more players bled off by some of the 8th Ed. changes.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






As an Australian I don't see myself going back until they fix their pricing over here. It's the same every single time I go into the FLGS.

I'll pick up their latest 40k release for whatever army my friend owns, and show him the box with my finger over the price sticker. He compliments the model, then I move my finger, and the expletives start pouring out.

Even if their rules get better, I doubt anyone at least in my group would ever pick up new miniatures. They might, as said earlier, dig their old stuff out to give it a try, but the models are just woefully expensive here compared to the competition.
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I'm pretty sure it'll hurt their competitors much like 4th ed. D&D hurt it's competitors....oh wait....yeah not hurt...invigorate. That's the word. Because so far the new rules kinda look simplistic and sucky like AoS. The new no template stuff is awful. I mean have you seen the battlecannon's stats. Guard are going to get hosed, horde armies, hosed, still not convinced the new flamer rules is that good. RUN IS STILL A FETHING THING AS IS OVERWATCH! GOD ****ING MOTHER****ING BULLMULARKY!

Ahem....no armor values because little Timmy can't do math anymore. A very stupid system where 'everything can hurt everything'

Also Plague Marines and Space Marines in the starter....-_-....Booooooooooo. Boooooooo I say. Oh and the new 'power level' thing is dumb as hell too.

Why is it so hard to see, that what would draw people back is clean up the special rules, and roll back EVERYTHING to 3rd. ed. Put a new coat of paint and boom you're done. Don't change a thing after that for about 5-7 years before the next edition.


That in red is what I've been screaming about since 5th Ed. dropped. The big issue is there shouldn't NEED TO BE a new edition. Get it right the first time, play test any expansions, then spend all that R&D on advertising instead, and the money prints itself. It can't be that expensive to have a hot game of 40K show up on Big Bang Theory, or to do a tourney on ESPN like they used to do with M:TG

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





I appear to have put Morgoth on my Ignore list a long time ago and forgot about it. This thread reminds me why.

Now that GW has pulled their head out of their ass and is making awesome rules and solid balance, I'm sure many leavers will come back and many new players will pick 40K.


The new edition isn't even out yet and yet you're pre-emptively declaring the rules and balance to be "awesome"?

How much do you think this will ruin the day of games like WMH which can't compete on models and only ever grew like weeds because GW wasn't tending their backyard.


Thats your opinion. GW make some of the best miniatures in the world, not the best.

I personally think they're going to see a solid drop around the launch and then a continuous loss of popularity as even the most entrenched 40k haters go back to the miniatures they truly love.


Speak for yourself. I've always liked Lord of the Rings miniatures better than the hideously proportioned and oversized Warhammer Fantasy and 40K heroic scale miniatures, both before and after I started playing 40K back in 5th Ed. Lord of the Rings and Hobbit miniatures, and other more anatomically realistic miniature ranges are the "miniatures that I truly love".

8th Ed. may indeed increase the likelihood that I will one day play 40K again. But the thing is, now it'll just be one of many games that I play. 40K now competes for my attention and my wallet with LOTR/Hobbit SBG, This is Not a Test (Fallout), SAGA, Zombicide and Dungeons and Dragons.
   
Made in au
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant




Oz

So we're starting with the premise that the new rules are awesome? It's too early to say they're bad, isn't it too early to say they're good? To answer the OP, how much 40k will hurt the competition will depend on how good it is and how expensive it is. It probably will draw in returning players who will spend a bit, but if it turns out to be more of the same those people probably won't stay long. Basically the same as with every new edition.


Azazelx wrote:They've been playtesting the gak out of it for a year, including with external bodies such as tournament peoples. I am more optimistic for this forthcoming edition than I have been in many, many years. Of course, you're under no obligation to change from 7th, or start playing 40k (or whatever) either way.


I would be optimistic if this hadn't been done in the past to varying degrees. Yes, playtesting is important, that's step 1. Step 2 is changing the rules to incorporate feedback, and that's where gw traditionally fails. Having the entire world playtesting the game is of no value if they don't fix the issues that get discovered. Will they do it this time?


-Loki- wrote:As an Australian I don't see myself going back until they fix their pricing over here. It's the same every single time I go into the FLGS.

I'll pick up their latest 40k release for whatever army my friend owns, and show him the box with my finger over the price sticker. He compliments the model, then I move my finger, and the expletives start pouring out.

Even if their rules get better, I doubt anyone at least in my group would ever pick up new miniatures. They might, as said earlier, dig their old stuff out to give it a try, but the models are just woefully expensive here compared to the competition.


Pricing will always remain an issue. I recently showed a friend the gw website/40k game to gauge his interest as a new game we could play (we play card games, chess, etc). He liked the models, but when he saw the prices he said you'd have to really love the game to pay that. We haven't spoken of it since, but yeah the rules would have to be very amazing at this point to make up for the prices. And that's assuming the prices don't keep rising like they always do. 2 start collecting boxes just to see if we're interested will run just shy of $300. Compared to the other games/activities we could do for that money, i just don't see it.

 
   
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Cunning Chieftain






From what we've seen, 8th Ed may have cracked the various issues 40k has/had.

With transports being less prone to one-shot destruction or immobilisation, you can get your troops from A-B in greater safety.

Close Combat? Well, shooting has been boosted a bit, and Flamers are downright deadly for Overwatch, so it's arguable that from there Combat remains a weaker option.

But....as vehicles can now charge, if your transporting your combat troops, it seems possible (until more info is known) that their transport can disgorge them, then lead the charge to try to soak up Overwatch.

Then, there's the option that if stuck in combat with your horde, you can envelop other, unengaged units - denying them Overwatch.

Add in that you can now consolidate into combat, and the disparity may well have been addressed - though whether one phase proves deadlier overall we won't know for a while.

Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures seem to be on par with each other now, which is a welcome change.

Alpha Strike deepstriking has been curtailed somewhat, given you need to aim (no word on scattering though, possibly done away with?) 9"+ away from enemy units. So cautious deployment can severely restrict where deepstrikers and equivalent can turn up (and a 9" bubble is quIte far reaching)

Then comes the demise of Formations. Yes, we get new FoC, but the days of FREE STUFF BECAUSE REASONS are done and dusted, which is nice. Deathstars likewise have been toned down (though given how keywords work in AoS, it'll still be possible to have similar synergy)

Now, any regaining ground needs to be sustained. I suspect we'll see a decent amount of those who departed during 6th and 7th Ed at least curious enough to give this reworking a try. And I dare say more than a few will stick around. But, if the benefits of redoing all the armies for release are eroded by shonky codecies following, it'll be harder to keep them. Only if they keep things under closer parity then word will spread quickly, and more gamers will be tempted to try it out.

It's no Magic Bullet type thing, but it might develop into one.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
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Captain




London

Has it cracked the problem with inflated armies and over expensive miniatures?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Has it cracked the problem with inflated armies and over expensive miniatures?


This for me is the biggest issue. I didn't stop playing 40K because of the rules, but because they priced me out of the game. The books were completely not worth the price, the models even less so. How is GW going to double its revenue if people still don't buy the product in the first place. I've seen nothing that would compel anyone to run out and buy an entire new army. Especially since your going to want to cut your teeth on new rules with all the older models that you already own that are in theory all viable to use.

I also suspect that GW will quickly fall into older habits and the next big model that they want to sell will have rules that somehow make it more desirable to field. Now add in a revised faction and I can see the bloat once again beging to creep up. I strongly suspect 8th edition will only be considered balanced (or at least as balanced as any new edition could be) for two years at the most. At the end of the second year, there will be an obvious power curve.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in us
Teleporting to the Battle Barge





Norfolk, VA

Not sure all this talk of xwing but its far from balanced. Literally whats the next broken combo cut and paste. Fun?

I buy and trade minis, that's what I do.
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Captain




London

 Jayden63 wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Has it cracked the problem with inflated armies and over expensive miniatures?


This for me is the biggest issue. I didn't stop playing 40K because of the rules, but because they priced me out of the game. The books were completely not worth the price, the models even less so. How is GW going to double its revenue if people still don't buy the product in the first place. I've seen nothing that would compel anyone to run out and buy an entire new army. Especially since your going to want to cut your teeth on new rules with all the older models that you already own that are in theory all viable to use.

I also suspect that GW will quickly fall into older habits and the next big model that they want to sell will have rules that somehow make it more desirable to field. Now add in a revised faction and I can see the bloat once again beging to creep up. I strongly suspect 8th edition will only be considered balanced (or at least as balanced as any new edition could be) for two years at the most. At the end of the second year, there will be an obvious power curve.


100% agree. If the rules are free then I can at least give them a go with old models I have laying around, whilst continuing to buy for other games I play.

Rules will creep into the same cycle again. It's why it's a cycle
   
Made in gb
Furious Fire Dragon





 Byte wrote:
Not sure all this talk of xwing but its far from balanced. Literally whats the next broken combo cut and paste. Fun?


Of course X-Wing has it's issues, but FFG do tend to FAQ / Errata the worst offenders, maybe sometimes not as fast as players would like, but even Emperor Palpatine or Jumpmasters are minor offenders compared to Riptides, Wraithknights and 2++ re-rollables

I want 8th to be good and hopefully GW will be swinging the nerf bat to keep things in check, that they've reached out to big tournament organizers is a positive as I feel a big issue for 40k was the large gap between how GW assumed the game was played and how it was actually played

"Well, erm, hmm, its alright. We've got understatement. We have strong prevailing South Westerly winds. 52% of our days are overcast, so as a nation we're infused with a wistful melancholy. But we remain a relentlessly chipper population, prone to mild eccentricity, binge drinking and casual violence"
 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight




Louisville KY

The difference between xwing and 40k is that in xwing the broken stuff changes more frequently. In 40k you wait years.

Both games are still easily abused and busted. Same with warmachine.

As to pricing... polls often average out at about people not wanting to go more than $200 for a playable force, to include rulebooks etc.

40k will never fit in that mold unless tournament 40k moves to 500 points. Which may not be a bad thing for it to do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 12:51:14


Node based campaign for my public 2017 campaign.

http://www.tga.community/files/file/31-the-siege-of-var-asai/
 
   
 
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