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Not every faction need a sniper, but every faction should have some tool to deal with enemy buffing IC. Not with the same efficience, is not a problem that one faction strugle to dealt with enemy IC if they have other things to compensate.

 Galas wrote:
Not every faction need a sniper, but every faction should have some tool to deal with enemy buffing IC. Not with the same efficience, is not a problem that one faction strugle to dealt with enemy IC if they have other things to compensate.

Well some factions obviously shouldn't have snipers, but at least something to hit IC. Some factions it even confuses me that they don't have snipers, like CSM and DE

I hope everything that has precision shot gets the bonus, not just guys with sniper rifles. (I have a pile of death jesters and I want to keep using them...)

It is possible that some weapons we already have are now snipers instead.

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Not every faction need a sniper, but every faction should have some tool to deal with enemy buffing IC. Not with the same efficience, is not a problem that one faction strugle to dealt with enemy IC if they have other things to compensate.

Well some factions obviously shouldn't have snipers, but at least something to hit IC. Some factions it even confuses me that they don't have snipers, like CSM and DE

Hellions used to have an ability to snatch a hero from combat but hellions have always sucked. Heard with a hero in the 5th ed book they were ok though.

Dark eldar technically have one in the hexrifle but it's iffy. It has the potential to be the king of all sniper rifles (causes instant death after a precision shot) but the odds of getting precision and red and hilariously bad with so few shots. It is an ap 4 gun though so there's a chance every few times you wound that it might instant death a medium armored heavy troop like an ogryn. Not bad for 10 pts i guess. Wish they had more dedicated snipers though. Hilariously enough it's current an assault weapon so they can move, snipe and then assault if that makes any sense. Odd however they put some of the few heavy weapons we have on infantry units though and mobile ones at that (the winged scourge dudes). What kind of sense does that make?

Far as what nids could do they could easily have a hero snatcher. Pretty sure lictor was supposed to fill that role at some point. I know in DoW 2 they just snatched an enemy from a squad and that was that. Makes sense to me that it'd be a hero killer assassin type model.

Orks could use kommandoz. Once again they're a stealth unit that could just jump out of nowhere and ambush a command squad. That or maybe they could turn a hero into a squig. Heard that was a thing at some point.

Chaos could always turn somebody into a spawn right? I think they also used to have some sort of lash whips that pulled enemies towards them.

 Roknar wrote:
Not all factions would need assasins/snipers. The only thing protecting IC's is distance.
If you can close that distance so they are the closest target, you can unload.
So any kind of infiltration or deepstrike would work.

That would be my guess for CSM. Terminators teleporting in and cutting off the head of the snake is pretty much their thing in the lore, at least for the Black Legion.
A terminator annilhilation equivalent with the new combi bolter would certainly provide a threat to characters.

Only problem I see with those kinds of anti character tactics is that they are easily enough countered by surrounding characters such that they can't deploy withing 9 inch of them.
Whereas actual snipers are free to shoot no matter what. On the flip side though, a unit infiltrating next to a character is probably going to be way more dangerous for that character than a your average sniper unit.
Plus they could assault, either immediately or the turn after (provided they survived ofc), so there is merit to both methods I guess.

That said, I wouldn't complain if we got a new csm assassin type unit lol. No clue what that would look like though.
I wonder, could the challengin mechanic from CSM be turned into some form of assasination?
You know, like luring out characters or something along those lines, where if they don't they get some kind of debuff.
Sowing doubt into the opposing ranks, perhaps via dark apostles? Certainly would be fluffy lol.

Command Squads will be able to shield them so not JUST distance will matter.

 Roknar wrote:

That said, I wouldn't complain if we got a new csm assassin type unit lol. No clue what that would look like though.
I wonder, could the challengin mechanic from CSM be turned into some form of assasination?
You know, like luring out characters or something along those lines, where if they don't they get some kind of debuff.
Sowing doubt into the opposing ranks, perhaps via dark apostles? Certainly would be fluffy lol.

I might have said this before, if I did already then apologies for reiteration, but CSM already have assassin units, they're called Warp Talons. Warp Talons are Daemonically enhanced trackers who can cut through the Warp and appear before their target in the same way Deathmarks can, except they do so with a flash of light and blind their opponent before shredding them with twin claws.

Also, assuming Warp Talons remain relatively unchanged, we could be looking at a very very powerful assassination unit compared to the pathetic, lightning claw-only Raptors we had in 6th Ed.

Assuming that

They can still Deep Strike
They can still "Blind" opponents
They can now charge from Deep Strike
Lightning claws become AP-2 like AP3 guns, or AP-3 like Power Swords
Lots of attacks, as before
They get Death to the False Emperor (revealed to be an extra attack on a To Hit of 6!!)
They still get their Daemon invulnerable save


They will be able to drop in, mop up nearly any character, then zip away and shred other units with ease and laugh off anything short a Striking Scorpion squad.

Very very powerful might be a bit optimistic. A 9 inch charge is far from impossible but it's not easy and first you have to be able to drop that close.
Two units to their left and right is already going to make that pretty difficult, at least on paper.

But yea, that's probably what their role will be in 8th.

Looking forward to putting my Vindicare back to work...

I always liked Space Marine scouts. Ive built 5 BP CCW and swapped their heads with the night vision goggles off the Sniper set, SEAL style. I mean, if they're training to get used to the auto-receptors of a SM helmet, might as well have some goggles right?

They fit nicely in a LS Storm. But I've always wanted a second set to combat squad. Sniper Scouts. My next Loyalist purchase was gonna be Sniper Scouts.

 Aetare wrote:
Looking forward to putting my Vindicare back to work...

Thinking more carefully about the Vindicare, given how C:IA was structured and how the Imperium gets most of it's armies in the same book the Vindicare might be touted by GW as the sniper for all non-SM Imperium armies, including SoB, Inquisition, and Militarum Temptestus.

I see the Tau having 3 potential paths forward when it comes to sniping or sniping-esque activities (one of which has already been confirmed).

1. Sniper Drones (confirmed)

These snipers are fragile for their firepower, which can probably range from reasonably good (assuming previous levels of boosting, BS of 2+ with 2 shots each at 1 power per Drone) to downright poor (BS 5+ with 1 shot per 1 power),

The Stealth field helps mitigate some incoming fire, but they're still fairly fragile, and so they won't stand up to much in the way of incoming death. They have Fly, so can theoretically escape CQC to shoot, that requires the impracticality of them surviving that CQC.

Because they are so heavily reliant on the boosting effects of a nearby Hero (almost assuredly) or Battlesuit (less likely), they also provide a convenient glowing Weak Point for the enemy - the heroes giving them boosts! That actually makes them weaker against snipers and sniping-like effects than other snipers, while possibly giving them enough firepower to compete with other snipers.

2. Kroot Snipers

These would likely come as a cheaper, more reliable (but perhaps a bit lesser in potential) with more Sniper shots packed per Power but not as reliant on nearby Heroes for effectiveness.

Some form of the Sniper's stealth defense seems likely, albeit one conditioned on being in Forests, but I still suspect Kroot Snipers would be even more fragile but come in larger numbers.

Kroot traditionally have infiltrate, so a bespoke Infiltrate/Deep Strike rule might also be in store for these guys.

The advantage of being Troops, for the new Command Points detachments, cannot be understated.

3. Battlesuits equipped with Advanced Targeting Systems

In previous and the current editions, the wargear ATS granted Precision Shots on rolls of 6 to hit.

This is pretty similar to the baseline rules present in Snipers - that 6's to hit resulted in Precision Shots.

Given this similarity, and presuming the ATS is retained in the new edition (I don't recall if they've ever officially named a particular wargear piece ATS?), that could allow the likes of Crisis Suits, Ghostkeels, Riptides, or even Stormsurges to be able to target sub 11 wound Hero units.

That seems like a disproportionate boost, and if true, would easily make the Tau the champion of quantity and quality of sniping profiles.

Maybe the Tyranid Haruspex will be able to use its tongue to grab characters that are behind another unit and if it doesn't kill them it moves them into base contact with it? It wouldn't be long-range like a sniper rifle, but it would be a fun way to "snipe" characters.

Wonder what will happen with the Wolf Scouts - at the moment they're just rediculously overpriced SM Scouts.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

Hellions used to have an ability to snatch a hero from combat but hellions have always sucked.

Yeah. Sadly, even if they managed that, they weren't equipped to actually kill said character.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Heard with a hero in the 5th ed book they were ok though.

Nope. The hero in question (Baron Sathonyx) made Hellions troops and they still sucked.

Everyone just took the Baron and attached him to units that were actually worth a damn.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

Dark eldar technically have one in the hexrifle but it's iffy. It has the potential to be the king of all sniper rifles (causes instant death after a precision shot) but the odds of getting precision and red and hilariously bad with so few shots.

I did the math once. The Hexrifle is abysmal on every level. Given that it costs 70-80pts just to get a single one (and it only gets one shot), it is completely outclassed by basic splinter weapons. It's issues are:
- AP4 (Would be fine if they could be taken en masse, but for a weapon that's only available to a specific character and sergeant, it's far too weak).
- Single-shot weapon (Same problem as above).
- Really only worthwhile when it scores a Precision Shot (among other things, this means that Haemonculi basically gain no extra benefit in spite of having BS5)
- Precision Shots still have a 50/50 chance of failing to wound.
- Precision Shots rarely correlate with AP2. The odds of rolling a Precision Shot *and* getting a 6 to-wound (for AP2) are 1/36. There just aren't enough worthwhile targets that have multiple wounds but only armour of 4+ or worse. Of those, I can't think of any that couldn't be taken down far more reliably by spending the same points on, say, a Venom with dual Splinter Cannons.
- It's only available on melee units (Haemonculi serve little purpose in ranged units and a Wrack unit will have, at most, 2 members with guns in a 5-man squad. And one of those will be a crap flamer.).

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Wish they had more dedicated snipers though.

What I'd like is for Mandrakes to become character-assassins. I'd also like a Mandrake HQ.

However, I suspect that the odds of either of those happening are slightly worse than the odds of my arse growing wings and flying me into space.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Odd however they put some of the few heavy weapons we have on infantry units though and mobile ones at that (the winged scourge dudes). What kind of sense does that make?

I think Scourges should have either had Relentless or else been a Jet Pack unit (in fact, I'd argue that Corsair Blaestrikes are exactly what Scourges should have been).

As you say, it's moronic to make them a mobile unit, only to then give them weapons that can't be used on the move.

If I hear another person parrot GW's usage of the word "bespoke" I might scream. Lol. Just saying. It's kinda like when they fed the word narrative to us and sudfdenly everyone wanted to use the word.

Sigh. Minor peeve. Continue with Sniper talk.