8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**zedsdead**

Youn wrote:

It should be noted at this point. Not a single army at our store has managed to actually defeat that AM army. I came the closest with my eldar army the fields 30 rangers and 9 dark reapers. As I could kill the three commissars on turn one and all visible vehicles also on turn one.

who the hell wants to move 200+ models...feth me !

**Audustum**

zedsdead wrote:
Youn wrote:

It should be noted at this point. Not a single army at our store has managed to actually defeat that AM army. I came the closest with my eldar army the fields 30 rangers and 9 dark reapers. As I could kill the three commissars on turn one and all visible vehicles also on turn one.

who the hell wants to move 200+ models...feth me !

I think against that kind of army we'd actually want Psilencer spam and to use Command Points to re-roll into 1st turn charges.

In the vein of speaking of other armies, anyone have an idea of what we'd do against 5 Imperial Knights assuming we stay mono? It seems like we'd need a lot of Daemon Hammers or walkers ourselves.

**WrentheFaceless**

It seems like Stormravens might be making their way back into our lists.

**Quickjager**

Alright, won against an IG list, he had a scion based list so he had a large amount of low str weapon that were pretty useless against the Land Raider and Dreadknight.

However his plasma was very effective in stripping wounds off whenever they had the chance to.

I ended up purging the Tempestor Prime to death while the Dreadknights and Landraider went hunting the scions. The Purifiers were worth their weight in gold for killing vehicles, but that was about it hammerhead with -2 rend and falchions extra attack ripped apart the vehicles, but man Taurox Prime overwatch is nasty, lost 2 wounds on Draigo.

**Aetare**

Stormravens look like a must the more I look at them. So much dakka and so mobile...

**Bartali**

Aetare wrote:
Stormravens look like a must the more I look at them. So much dakka and so mobile...

Absolutely. They're so flexible too Twin AC/Hurricanes against infantry; Twin Melta/Stormstrikes against vehicles/mc's/multiwound etc
One of the most improved units in 8th, and I'll be taking 1-2 in my GK and BA lists.

**Youn**

You cannot stop moving them against predators. I made that mistake against our BA player. I took 4 lascannon shots to the nose.

**Spartacus**

Whats peoples consensus on using Stormravens to transport Dreadnoughts? Gimmick or not?

Going to be getting at least one Stormraven soon, I have a dust collector Forgeworld GK dreadnought who wants some love.

**Coyote81**

Spartacus wrote:
Whats peoples consensus on using Stormravens to transport Dreadnoughts? Gimmick or not?

Going to be getting at least one Stormraven soon, I have a dust collector Forgeworld GK dreadnought who wants some love.

Imo, it's works great, as long as you get the dreadnought in combat and keep him locked in there, he doesn't have the durability to get shot a lot

**PUFNSTUF**

If you combat squad any squad, can you now smite two times, one with each squad? Smite does say this squad can, and combat says forms two squads, so I think we would be able too. Combat Squading Purifiers may be decent, one to buffer/charge, other to use special weapons.

Youn wrote:
Ok, quick after action report on the above army list:

Played against 1850 points of Blood Angels.
1 Landraider, 2 Predators, 1 Furiouso dreadnought, 1 squad scout, 3 squads assault marines with jump packs, 2 tactical squads, 2-3 sanguinary priests and a librarian with jump pack.

Mission: Secure and Control.
Turn 1: I go first because my deployment is 2 Stormravens with everyone but 2 NDK inside of them. So, by rules I was done in 2 placements.
Top of Turn: Rocket across board with both Ravens. Unleash all shots into 1 predator leaving it with 2 wounds left.
Bottom of turn: BA player unleashed entire force into shooting 1 Raven. Total damage was 7 wounds. He learned, Flame cannons, assault cannons and heavy bolters aren't enough to take down a raven. Other lesson learned for other player. Though you might have jump troops, DON'T charge a stormraven. 1 Dead sanginary priest plus 1 near dead squad of assault troops to Overwatch.

Turn 2: Deploy all forces from ravens on ground. Move to within 3" of Predator + Land Raider. Psychic phase, Landraider takes smites from 2 squads, crowe, 2 dreadknights and an inquisitor. A total of 14 mortal wounds. Shooting phase dreadknights finish landraider.
Charges put me in combat with Severely wounded predator with 1 purifier squad. Rest of troops tied up with other two purifier squads plus inquisitor. Crowe takes on tactical squad on his own.
Bottom of turn: Other predator puts another 6 wounds on wounded Stormraven bringing it to 13 total wounds. Furiouso fails charge, Librarian and Sanguinary guard charge and assault one of the dreadknights. It goes badly for the guard.

Top of round 3: All firepower into somewhat healthy predator and dreadnought. Dreadnought is killed. Predator left with 1 wound. Psychic phase: 6 total smites pretty much decimate all troops left on the table. The 7th smite is the two purifiers in hand to hand with severely wounded predator. They roll 12 on smite, It does 3 mortal wounds to them, killing them. The predator takes 3 mortal wounds from demons dragging two purifiers into warp and is killed also.
Bottom of turn: Raven 1 is finally shot down. very little else happens.

Turn 4: smites plus shooting result in 2 scouts left alive on Blood angel side. Player concedes.

So, overall. If you can get the purifiers across the table. They are well worth their weight. You are only going to cast smite.

It should be noted that Castellan Crowe never managed to kill a single marine with his sword in combat. But he did manage to kill a land raider, a predator and 5 tactical marines with his smite.

Smite spam seems good, thanks for the write up. Any reason why in your list you use psycannons over psilencers when psilencers are cheaper and stronger? Same thing with not using gatling psilencer on dreads? Would save you some points for something else too.

Has anyone thought of including a dakka crusader in a 2k GK force?

**Youn**

Currently, I have 30 PAGK modeled, of them My original army was:

1 Crowe
1 Brother Champion
2 Techmarines with Conversion beamers
1 PAGK with warding staff
1 Strike squad with falchions with 1 psycannon
4 Purifier squads force swords with 2 psycannons each
Each squad has 1 guy with hammer.

I have 2 more boxes of 10 man PAGK sitting on my workbench with the intent to make interceptors out of them. I just haven't gotten around to putting them together yet. So, as you can see my choice is more of a modeling decision, then anything else.

In 7th, Psycannons were salvo (2/4) vs Psilencers being a heavy weapon. This really meant I never used psilencers at all because I was mostly advancing to be within range or trying to get close enough to charge.

**PUFNSTUF**

Yea I myself have 2 psycannons and 4 incinerators so need to get a box and some bits to assemble psilencers. Almost all of mine are armed with halbers too so I'll need to get falchions.

**Youn**

Honestly, I would put an Psilencer in strike squads, Psycannons in Purgation squads and Incinerators in interceptor squads. Purifier squads in my case could go all plain weapons how I use them.

That based off: Strike squads have teleporting strike. Interceptors I am likely to start on the table and move to the spot I want them. Purifier squads are dropped off via Stormravens. And purgation squads would travel via rhino/razorback in order to insure holding an objective and being fire support.

Note: Purgation squads suffer the problem that 2 NDK will always trump them for FOC spot.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I like the logic. Fighting for slots isn't too much a problem though so long as you got points to spend on an HQ.

**Spartacus**

I've been thinking about psychic defense in the new edition. Grey knights are better off than most in this regard, having a large number of units to potentially make a DtW roll. However aside from that there is very little other than a dice-off to determine wether the enemy power is denied or not.

To try and manipulate those odds even further, I was thinking a Culexus assassin (or Sisters of Silence) might be a valuable edition to allow full domination over both psychic phases (yours and your opponents). Historically, GK and the psychic abomination units have not been a great mix, as you hurt your own capabilities as much as you did those of the enemy. However the rule has been reworded, meaning only enemy units within range are affected.

The actual effect has been significantly reduced, (a -2 modifier to enemy psychic rolls), meaning that a Culexus or Sisters unit on their own is never going to be a truly effective psyker defence like it used to be. That's where the Grey Knights come in. As they are not affected by an allied psychic abomination they are now in a much better position to deny the enemy who is affected by the modifier. A -2 modifier might not sound much, but seeing as most results tend to gravitate towards 6, 7, or 8 on 2D6, I'd wager it will come into play far more often than not. The range has been increased to 18 inches, combined with an improved infiltrate rule making the ability easy to make use of.

Heres the even better part: Enemy Deny the Witch rolls are also affected by this modifier (!). Therefore by taking a Culexus for example you're not only severely hampering enemy psychic attacks, but also ensuring yours will be much more difficult to deny, enhancing the offensive output of your GK squads.

To sweeten the deal the Culexus has been given an almighty points discount (only 30 points more than a base Paladin), and is still as tough as ever with the etherium rule, nasty gun and the ability to use it to pick out enemy psyker characters. Not bad in close combat either, one of the few things I've seen which flat out ignore armour saves. In fact, they are now even tougher if you want, as all Assassins gain the benfits of being a character even though they still can't join squads. Pretty potent even if the enemy doesn't bring along psykers of their own. I'm going to be bringing one along for sure.

**PUFNSTUF**

I was of the same opinion as you of taking a Culexus for that reason, and figured most psychers can only deny one power a turn, and if your popping off 5 smites, I'd risk the 50/50 of losing one. I am now considering an eversor or callidus for a turn 1 charge to tie up a scary range unit in melee. Not sure which the better beatstick is, so I posted in the Assassin thread.

**Spartacus**

Why not both?

They're so cheap this edition it astounds me.

Even if you blaze in with an Eversor turn one, tear up something in assault and die, he's very likely to have already made his poultry 70 points back.

That's why I'm so sure taking the Culexus is a great idea, even if there are no enemy psykers, he would have to have an exceptionally poor game in order to not be worth his points cost.

**Aetare**

I'll be running the eversor as a sort of suicide unit coupled with the vindicare picking off enemy characters from range.

**PUFNSTUF**

Spartacus wrote:
Why not both?

They're so cheap this edition it astounds me.

Even if you blaze in with an Eversor turn one, tear up something in assault and die, he's very likely to have already made his poultry 70 points back.

That's why I'm so sure taking the Culexus is a great idea, even if there are no enemy psykers, he would have to have an exceptionally poor game in order to not be worth his points cost.

Wish I could fit both in!

Heres what I am currently thinking of aiming for:

Vanguard Detatchment +1 CP

Eversor Assassin - 70

Stormraven Gunship (AC, MM, 2HurricaneBolters, 2 ML) [309]
Castellan Crowe [125]
Purifier Squad (5 man, 3 x Falchions, 1 daemonhammer, 2 psilencers) [157]
Purifier Squad (5 man, 3 x Falchions, 2 psilencers) [144}

Stormraven Gunship (AC, MM, 2HurricaneBolters, 2 ML) [309]
Purifier Squad (5 man, 3 x Falchions, 2 psilencers) [144}

Nemesis Dreadknight I (2DF, Gatling Psilencer, H.PsyC, Telep)[225]

Super Heavy Detatchment
Knight Crusader - Stock - 512

Total 1995 4CP

Pretty elite force but I think it would be pretty fun!

**Aetare**

I might have missed it but how are people generally feeling about Dreadknights this edition? I miss the shunting ability.

**Quickjager**

Shunting ability is missed, however I think they still have a place on the table escorting transports up the table so that they will not be surrounded and the troops inside killed.

Anyone else annoyed with bikers still be tougher than terminators? T5 and 2 wounds, far more mobile, far cheaper...

**Martel732**

Bikers don't have powerfists. Or base 2 attacks. Or 2+ armor. Or a 5++ invuln.

**Audustum**

Martel732 wrote:
Bikers don't have powerfists. Or base 2 attacks. Or 2+ armor. Or a 5++ invuln.

Also, GK Termies are 2 wounds too now I think.

**Martel732**

The wounds are a wash. T5 is not as valuable as 2+ armor in 8th ed. Not by a long shot.

**Aetare**

Terminators should still be more effective at a greater variety of roles, rather than just fast-moving marauders.

**Anpu42**

I keep looking at Grey Knights and thinking of Oprah during the 30 min Psychic Phase

"And you get a Mortal Wound and You Get a Mortal Wound and You Get a Mortal Wound and you are Special so you Get Three Mortal Wounds!"

**Aetare**

Anpu42 wrote:
I keep looking at Grey Knights and thinking of Oprah during the 30 min Psychic Phase

"And you get a Mortal Wound and You Get a Mortal Wound and You Get a Mortal Wound and you are Special so you Get Three Mortal Wounds!"

You say that now, until that 30-boy Ork horde comes to town and proceeds to give exactly zero feths

but I suppose that's what hurricane-bolter-stormravens are for

**Quickjager**

I keep saying assault cannon razorbacks are way of the future, 12 shots is great now how durable they are.

**Aetare**

I've never used razorbacks before, but they could be great for MSU armies like the Grey Knights look to be shaping up to be.

**Youn**

So, generally on Nemesis Dreadknights. You are going to have to give them 1 psychic power. Well, Gate of Infinity seems to be the most useful. And since, most people run 2 NDKs. That means both teleport in on turn one. They will attempt to charge if possible.

Once they kill their current target if they cannot move to the next target they should gate to another location on the board. You will only b e able to gate one per turn. But that seems to be fine, most of the time.