Vehical line of sight and shooting

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**BaconCatBug**

vaurapung wrote:
Then how are infantry different than everything else.

They aren't. Welcome to 8th edition. "INFANTRY" is now just a keyword that other rules reference.

**Scott-S6**

sultansean wrote:
Yes, but then they should have listed the other units types in the same manner, rather than saying "other units".

That's a terrible idea. Why would you list every other keyword just to say "not infantry"?

Also, it doesn't work. Firstly, because most things have more than one keyword so you end up excluding some infantry. Second because you may end up not referencing some future unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vaurapung wrote:
OK, so I get it now that there is no "los" rules now it's just measure from base to base or hull with no obstructions. Somebody had asked if I measured from the guns on non vehicals. I was saying that yes I did and mostly because the gun is always out side of the base and I think everyone measured from the gun for that purpose last edition.

As for cover and 50% obscurity in 8th I didn't realize that having buildings are pointless now. It's like they made the game so you can play on a flat board with some green felt for trees and grey felt for buildings and claim that units in them get cover.

The dynamics of moving units in and out of Los has been a large part of playing Warhammer. Now that only woods and ruins can grant cover if the model is fully within its bounds it kind nullifies the need to have any terrain at all. Just lay down some mats and call it a day.

So you were playing it wrong last edition as well?

Also no, LoS blocking is still really important so pieces of felt don't cut it. I have no idea where you got the idea that LoS isn't a thing. You just no longer get cover simply for having intervening terrain (in most cases).

**vaurapung**

Name a case where Los blocking obstacles in 8th edition matters. The core rules specify that the only way to get cover for all units is to be fully in the terrain and the advanced rules specify that units other than infantry must be fifty percent obscured (and presumably while fully in a terrain feature that grants cover because it doesn't actually read other units while in terrain also need to be 50 percent obscured)

I have never seen a table with big enough terrain to hide a unit from all visibility so if simply being obscured can not grant cover why have terrain...

**Scott-S6**

If your tables don't have LoS blocking terrain big enough to get a unit behind then that's a problem with your terrain, not with the rules. You need multiple pieces of 6-8" wide LoS blocking terrain, some of which should also be movement blocking.

**vaurapung**

So terrain may be the problem. I've spent so many games getting insta-killed because I'm not allowed to have saves due to armour pens which by the looks of it will still be the case because the gun that will be aiming at my big stuff will still strip away their armour leaving me up the creek without a paddle again. And for my infantry I relyed on conceal for a 6+ save many times

**3orangewhips**

You need 3-4 LOS blocking terrain pieces in the middle of that table.

**Platuan4th**

Yeah, that table fails at terraining. That's a very 2nd/3rd ed style table. You and your group need to rethink how you do terrain density altogether.

**vaurapung**

Thats about the density of every table I've played on even in local tournaments for over 3 years.

When 25% obscurity gave a cover save though even that table almost always could grant a cover.

So is there a good thread on here for terrain design now that Los blocking over obscurity is more important.

**Scott-S6**

I think its always been important. Tables like that strongly favour certain armies and units, especially in some previous editions.

With tall models like knights becoming more common that LoS blocking terrain also needs to be taller now as well.

**Slipspace**

Yeah, that's not a bad amount of terrain but a few bits need to be bigger and you could replace some with 3-4 bits of LoS blocking terrain in the middle.

I've found a good rule of thumb is one piece you can hide something really big behind, like a Land Raider, and 2-3 you can hide infantry and small vehicles behind. They should be somewhere towards the middle of the board too.

It's also worth noting you can adapt the current terrain rules to suit your collection if you need to. So you might decide to treat that 2-level hill in the upper-right of your board as ruins for the purposes of cover. It's not strictly RAW but you might find your games improve with small changes like that while you expand your terrain collection.

**Drager**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLBcL_ZRdz0

That batrep has a pretty good table for LoS

**Himmelweiss**

*sigh*

Longtime reader of the dakka forums here but just finally had to create an account here :p

The 8th edition rulebook is really quite bad layed out.
Quite a lot of important rules are on the sidebars (gets really on my nerves), whos idea was that anyway?

And as for LOS/Cover terrain rules in general, guess what, it is even more unclear in the german rulebook ( i am from germany).
Woods: it says per MODEL basis not UNIT...
Ruins: it says UNIT
Crater: per MODEL
Walls: per MODEL

Are theese just translation errors? Who knows... a FAQ is badly needed here!
I have no idea how to play now....

All other rules about terrain, LOS, 50% and so on seem to be identical so far compared to the english version.

**petrov27**

Drager wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLBcL_ZRdz0

That batrep has a pretty good table for LoS

That is a really nice table - I assume all cut from foam and such - good difference from all the city layouts