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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





GW balanced their missions around rolling to deploy first for alternating deployment, and who finishes deploying first goes first, then seize.

Regardless of what people think about who finishes deploying first goes first their deployment rules are based around that.

Changing who goes first has a large affect on the balance of the current deployment system.

If you have an army with 20 drops, and 10 of those are scions/GSC/rippers/spammabale unit that can go in reserves- versus a 10 drop army in it rules you create an Imbalance that current ITC rules in no form address.

In core 8th rules the ten drop army is going to deploy and the other force can put it's units in reserves and respond to the ten drop armies deployment by virtue of getting to deploy their other ten units with full knowledge of how the other force is deployed. That is pretty powerful, they however will be going second unless they seize.

In ITC rules the one side can bait the other side to fully deploy, then deploy their forces. Between the roll to go first, and then having a chance to seize they have close to a 50% chance to still have the first turn.

This largely Imbalances the game towards having high drops determine the likely winner. All ITC did was shift the meta from low drops to high drops, with bonus meta shifting if the high drop army has lots of reserve units.

Suggested additions:
1.) For every full 5 drops more your opponent takes, you can remove one of your units from the table and redeploy it after both sides have normally finished deploying but before the game progresses past deployment.
2.) If a player has ten drops more than another player, they cannot roll to seize.
3.) A player cannot place any units into reserves until they have fewer than ten units that will not go into reserves remaining to deploy
4.) All shooting beyond 24" has -1 to hit on the first turn off the player who goes first after seizing has been determined.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 21:04:17


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Well, this answers that question!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/735699.page

Loopstah wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/09/new-matched-play-rules-in-chapter-approved-aug-9gw-homepage-post-1/

Flyers can't contest.
Roll off for first turn.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Are these mods to the existing missions or rules you can incorporate if you so wish?

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

That's an interesting question - the way tournies are implementing it, it applies to all missions, but they go out of their way to say it's only for the new missions on the Warhammer Community page:

This change ensures that in these new missions, the first turn is never guaranteed; whilst you can construct an elite army to stack the odds a little in your favour, it still all comes down to a roll-off, so you’ll have to build an army and deploy it accordingly. If you prefer the original method though, worry not! These new missions do not replace the matched play missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, they supplement them, allowing you to choose the style of mission rules you enjoy playing the most.

However, it seems like people will just use it all the time most likely!
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Thanks.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Good work by GW (feels odd saying that).

They're watching the game as it's played, seeing any exploits and patching them within weeks.

Listening to feedback as well.

Im... shocked. And pleasantly surprised.
   
Made in au
Three Color Minimum




In the casting shack.

I quite like the new way of establishing who goes first, a little perk but not a game changer.

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

"Yar har fiddle-dee-dee, being a pirate is alright with me!
I'll do what I want 'cause a pirate is free, I am a pirate!" 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 RiTides wrote:
That's an interesting question - the way tournies are implementing it, it applies to all missions, but they go out of their way to say it's only for the new missions on the Warhammer Community page:

This change ensures that in these new missions, the first turn is never guaranteed; whilst you can construct an elite army to stack the odds a little in your favour, it still all comes down to a roll-off, so you’ll have to build an army and deploy it accordingly. If you prefer the original method though, worry not! These new missions do not replace the matched play missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, they supplement them, allowing you to choose the style of mission rules you enjoy playing the most.

However, it seems like people will just use it all the time most likely!


Most big events are running their own missions anyway, so GW setting the precedent that this will be different for different missions (though that was already in the base rulebook if you looked at narrative events) validates organizers choosing how they want to decide first turn for their own custom missions.
   
 
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