silentone2k wrote:I don't play Tau and haven't seen a local Tau player yet so bear with me. I had to go find the rules for the various drone types to understand some of this. I think some people are missing that the savior protocols aren't unique to shield drones, but are something shared by other, equally priced, drones that have other abilities as well.
I do think this is a move towards rules consistency. But, given the other differences I'm seeing between this rule and the rules its now "more consistent" with, I think it missed the mark.
Saviour Protocols: If a
<Sept> Drones unit is within 3" of a friendly
<Sept> Infantry or
<Sept> Battlesuit unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.
Necron Lychguard;
Guardian Protocols: Roll a
D6 each time a frindly
<DYNASTY> CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit - the character does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.
Yeah, drones are now denying saves for wounds in exchange for a 100% success rate at intervention.
So... this is a nerf to savior protocols on
all drones. It just particularly hits the shield drones, due to their improved (invuln) saves.
Shield drones are, base, the same prices as gun drones... for what?
Actually, there's a bit more nuance there, and I hope that isn't getting lost in my occasional rant about the uselessness of Shield Drones against competent opponents.
Savior Protocols actually has a few unique features beyond denying saves and 100% success rate.
First, because it is allocated prior to the save and prior to the wounds being lost, the allocated wound does not roll for damage - instead, it is negated and a Mortal Wound is inflicted on the Drones in its place.
Compare that to the Lychguard, and every other Bodyguard unit that I've seen so far: "every time . . . loses a wound . . ." means that the bodyguard's ability triggers not only after SAVES, but also after damage is rolled and wounds are actually lost.
Roll a 6 on a Lascannon's damage, and that's 6 mortal wounds going to bodyguards (if they succeed on their roll).
So Saviour Protocols has a unique advantage (which is partially why paying for it with Mortal Wounds is honestly a generally acceptable things.
But...
That makes shieldies seem pretty worthless.
Which is entirely the issue (hence the title of this thread "Tau SHIELD Drone Nerf"), but something that a lot of people are willing to overlook because Shield Drones apparently touched them in a bad place in the last few weeks and they'd rather see something dead than fixed.
Now, here's another weirdness that only exacerbates the issue-
The pulse carbine on gun drones are free.
Arguably, the shield generators on the shield drones cost as much as the drone itself. (Entry on the wargear list for Shield Generator (all other units)).
...Gun Drones and Shield Drones both have all their wargear cost included, partially because they don't (generally) benefit from wargear to the same extent as most of the models capable of purchasing/taking said wargear. A Shield Generator on a Shield Drone is worth almost infinitely less than a Shield Generator on a Commander, Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, or Broadside. A Pulse Carbine on a Gun Drone is arguably worth less than a Pulse Carbine on a Fire Warrior due to the Gun Drone's lower
BS and its Threat Identification Protocols limitation on what it can targety (though two Pulse Carbines on a Gun Drone,
IMO, is worth more than one Pulse Carbine on a Fire Warrior, but that's mostly reflective of the Pulse Carbine's general inferiority to a Fire Warrior's other options - Pulse Blasters for close in, Pulse Rifle for long range, and Pulse Carbines occupying no discernable role in between).
Some combination of items selected from the following is needed;
a) Gun drones need a price increase (probably).
b) Pulse Carbines need a price. (didn't look at what else this would impact)
c) Shield Drones need a price drop. (maybe)
d) Shield Generators for shield drones need clarification. (definitely)
e) Shield Drones need an extra wound. (maybe)
f) Shield Drones need a special rule that makes intercepted wounds Mortal only after they get some sort of save. (ehhh....)
a) Possibly, though Gun Drones are now much less potent as ablative wounds, and as a player you have far less control over which unit a Gun Drone fires upon compared to other models. I do think Gun Drones are the MVPs of the T'au Index (alongside Commanders/Coldstars and Longstrike), but I'm not sure they quite deserve a point increase (they have weaknesses in what they target, whether they can get easy access to cover, their low leadership, etc.)
b) Nope, I covered this above in my Fire Warrior discussion. It's the Gun Drone's ability to take two infantry weapons on an 8 point model that makes the Gun Drone powerful, not the appropriate point costs for infantry weapons. If I were rewriting the codex, I might make all fire warriors/pathfinders 1 point cheaper, then make all the basic infantry weapons 1 point (Blasters/Carbines/Rifles, but not Pistols), but that's "If wishes were fishes" territory. It would make Gun Drones 1 point more expensive, which as stated above, could be warranted, though. Not really the direction
GW seems to be inclined to take (looking at similar abilities in the army).
c) I'd rather see Shield Drones retain their relative usefulness in comparison to Gun Drones and Marker Drones by being better ablative wounds (both when using Savior Protocols and when the Drones are targetted directly). But yes, decreased points is a possibility.
d) What needs clarification? They could use a bespoke rule allowing their use against Savior Protocols, which would basically fix the entire issue, but that isn't a clarification, that's a change in the rules. The rules themselves are pretty clear.
e) eeeeeeeeeeh, that could work, but I'd rather see they maintain a consistency in point-costs and drone chassis (8 pts T4/4+ as base) with rules that make the Shield Generator worth it rather than give it a unique chassis statline. Arguably the extra wound would probably be better for both consistency and to avoid opponent player meltdowns when miraculous dice provide more than you'd expect out of a couple 4++ or 3++ wounds...
f) I really don't see much wrong with this. That's what bespoke rules are for in this edition: there's often a general template (which the Drones deviated a bit from), and you add special rules for the special circumstances your special unit will find itself in. Elegant in its simplicity, and Shield Drones become uniquely purposeful as ablative wounds in the way they always have been described in fluff - self-sacrificing, but not irrationally so, and often capable of absorbing some punishment before being blown away.
Of course, looking at these things, why are the unfeeling drones that are designed to suck up wounds for their living associates running around with a Ld value on par with your average Astra Militarum Guardsman?
Part of the Suspension of Disbelief required for reasonable balancing purposes.
Without a lower leadership and the Threat Identification Protocols (which require Gun Drones to only be able to fire at the nearest unit, character or not), Gun Drones would need to be priced a lot higher in points, and Drones this edition are clearly intended to be as cheap or cheaper than infantry so they can be somewhat spammed (requiring us to buy more models...)
