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 WarbossDakka wrote:
I know it's all doom and gloom for the Imperial Fist tactics (I guess it depends on how much terrain you use, but if you don't play with much terrain at all you're doing it wrong), but remember we still have Relics, Warlord Traits and Strategems to look at. What if IF get a great Relic to use paired with a useful Strategem? It won't be so bad then.

And guess who became relevant again with actual unique rules?

I mean, that makes me happy as a CF player above all else to be honest.

No real doom or gloom here.

Im saying its dull (very not flashy like the other CT except Iron hands which is about 20 times more dull then the fists)

its definitely strong.

But the building one IS very very pointless for the majority of the games unless someone one makes them popular enough for everyone to start taking.

im so excited to see IF Strats. the relics 99% sure they are going to be copy pastaed out of the previous books.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
-1 to hit from more than 12" doesn't strike me as being all that much better than 6+ FNP. Obviously it wrecks shooty Orks, but against BS3+, -1 to hit is basically a 5.5+ FNP. Against BS4+ it's like a 5+ FNP. And it doesn't protect at all against CC or rapid fire. FNP is also better at protecting multi-wound models from attacks that do just enough damage to kill them.

A hit penalty is better versus multi-wound weapons, since FNP requires rolling a 6+ for each wound suffered. So vs Overcharged plasma, said Iron Hands have to roll 2 6s each.

Does this happen often? I feel like I almost only see people using overcharged plasma on T4 W1 models when it's super-cheap Guardsmen with re-rolls, and they're almost always inside 12" when they're doing it. If the targets have two wounds then the FNP is better if the shooter has better than BS4+. Granted, the -1 to hit is a lot better if your Marines are getting shot at with the occasional Lascannon, but this is not something you're very scared of in the first place.

 Crimson wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

They have 2 different fire modes, you know. One doesn't explode at all.

Yes. But forcing the enemy to use the weaker mode is a huge bonus.

Yeah, maybe we'll see less Marine Flyer Spam since the flyers don't get it.

ectoplastic wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at ultra marine - lives.
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at raven guard - gun explodes.

THEY REALLY need to fix these interactions if they are just going to hand out -1 to hit all over the place.

They have 2 different fire modes, you know. One doesn't explode at all.

Obviously. Doesn't change the fact that it's weird that it overheats more vs stealthy or dodgy things.

Poor trigger control against sneaky stuff. Though why you would overcharge against a bunch of 1 to 2 wound models is beyond me, unless you want to test that -2 to hit.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Poor trigger control against sneaky stuff. Though why you would overcharge against a bunch of 1 to 2 wound models is beyond me, unless you want to test that -2 to hit.

Spray and Pray is not safe with a plasma gun.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

ectoplastic wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at ultra marine - lives.
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at raven guard - gun explodes.

THEY REALLY need to fix these interactions if they are just going to hand out -1 to hit all over the place.

They have 2 different fire modes, you know. One doesn't explode at all.

Obviously. Doesn't change the fact that it's weird that it overheats more vs stealthy or dodgy things.

Poor trigger control against sneaky stuff. Though why you would overcharge against a bunch of 1 to 2 wound models is beyond me, unless you want to test that -2 to hit.

Dreadnoughts, Bikes, Termies, Characters. They all get it and you might want to overcharge vs these.

ectoplastic wrote:


Dreadnoughts, Bikes, Termies, Characters. They all get it and you might want to overcharge vs these.

And primaris marines. They have two wounds.

Maybe don't overload on Plasma in the first place? Variety in your army helps manage these chapter tactic bonuses.

 Crimson wrote:
Universal ignores cover seems pretty damn decent to me. I think people don't use enough terrain.

I keep getting forced onto planet bowling ball, because I only remember one player who liked to use terrain. For some reason, the more my opponent has 36-72" range weapons, and the more short-ranged stuff I use, the more they argue for less terrain.

It could just be that selfishness and having no sense of fair play is just rampant in the wargaming community.

 Selym wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Universal ignores cover seems pretty damn decent to me. I think people don't use enough terrain.

I keep getting forced onto planet bowling ball, because I only remember one player who liked to use terrain. For some reason, the more my opponent has 36-72" range weapons, and the more short-ranged stuff I use, the more they argue for less terrain.

It could just be that selfishness and having no sense of fair play is just rampant in the wargaming community.

This is not a problem with the Chapter Tactic, though. There should be guidelines for roughly how much scenery a Matched Play game has. Malifaux has this in the rulebook.

 Purifier wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Universal ignores cover seems pretty damn decent to me. I think people don't use enough terrain.

I keep getting forced onto planet bowling ball, because I only remember one player who liked to use terrain. For some reason, the more my opponent has 36-72" range weapons, and the more short-ranged stuff I use, the more they argue for less terrain.

It could just be that selfishness and having no sense of fair play is just rampant in the wargaming community.

This is not a problem with the Chapter Tactic, though. There should be guidelines for roughly how much scenery a Matched Play game has. Malifaux has this in the rulebook.

Matched play or tournies for sure

often times though i just get a non bias 3rd party to make the table.

a few fire channels here and there but otherwise fairly dense terrain is fun on the bun. right untill the metal models come out :X

 Desubot wrote:

a few fire channels here and there but otherwise fairly dense terrain is fun on the bun. right untill the metal models come out :X

There are some models that I would only buy if I found them in metal. Because they really should be. It's just not right that GW turned them into failcrap. Units such as: Avatar of Khaine, Ghazghkull

ectoplastic wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

ectoplastic wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at ultra marine - lives.
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at raven guard - gun explodes.

THEY REALLY need to fix these interactions if they are just going to hand out -1 to hit all over the place.

They have 2 different fire modes, you know. One doesn't explode at all.

Obviously. Doesn't change the fact that it's weird that it overheats more vs stealthy or dodgy things.

Poor trigger control against sneaky stuff. Though why you would overcharge against a bunch of 1 to 2 wound models is beyond me, unless you want to test that -2 to hit.

Dreadnoughts, Bikes, Termies, Characters. They all get it and you might want to overcharge vs these.

Fair enough, its a might and maybe strategically then. Then I would say, you might not want to use overcharge against RG 1 to 2 wound models if they are more than 12" away.

 Ratius wrote:
Ally a bunch of all these chapter tactic units together into a coherent force and you'd have a key for every lock.....
#scary

I doubt you'll get CT without having that chapter army wide.

wow the salamander chapter tactic is oddly similar to a Tzeench legion trait i suggested, but was told it was OP lol.

looking at all of these so far, none of them strike me as fluffy, quite boring infact.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Ally a bunch of all these chapter tactic units together into a coherent force and you'd have a key for every lock.....
#scary

I doubt you'll get CT without having that chapter army wide.

Think there's a good chance you will, as long as you run pure detachments. That seems to be the road they're taking with these things.

All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

 Formosa wrote:
wow the salamander chapter tactic is oddly similar to a Tzeench legion trait i suggested, but was told it was OP lol.

looking at all of these so far, none of them strike me as fluffy, quite boring infact.

Dunno. Imp fists are adept at city fighting and often fight people entrenched in cover and ruins so the ignore cover might be the weakest part. but benefits against buildings is pretty fluffy

they tried to bring back old master crafted for salamanders it kinda works in the sense that they ALL make and maintain their own weapons though its a little wonky that its a per unit rule rather than a per model rules (though that would be bonkers OP if everyone could reroll wounds and hits )

Templars are definitly there to crusade.

white scars should be particularly hard to pin down.

smurfs... eh

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

 Selym wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

They seem to at least be on top of it rather than ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

They might bot all be fancy but all seem fairly fluffy to chapter traits.

Fairly solid all round. Templars remain CC, Fists excel in city fight and siege warfare, salamanders get better gear etc.

ectoplastic wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

ectoplastic wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at ultra marine - lives.
Shoots overcharged plasma gun at raven guard - gun explodes.

THEY REALLY need to fix these interactions if they are just going to hand out -1 to hit all over the place.

They have 2 different fire modes, you know. One doesn't explode at all.

Obviously. Doesn't change the fact that it's weird that it overheats more vs stealthy or dodgy things.

Poor trigger control against sneaky stuff. Though why you would overcharge against a bunch of 1 to 2 wound models is beyond me, unless you want to test that -2 to hit.

Dreadnoughts, Bikes, Termies, Characters. They all get it and you might want to overcharge vs these.

And you're overcharging in rapid fire range. Where the rule doesn't matter...

If you're not, sounds like you need to make the choice whether to risk it or not. Oh no, a decision!

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Ally a bunch of all these chapter tactic units together into a coherent force and you'd have a key for every lock.....
#scary

I doubt you'll get CT without having that chapter army wide.

I doubt it will be anything like that restrictive. You just won't get the benefits if the unit in question does not have specific Chapter Tactics (or is not Infantry, Bikes or Dreads).

So you can have a Black Templar's Vanguard detachment, a Raven Guard Spearhead and a White Scars Outrider.

There is not likely to be a downside to this form all the informaiton we have thus far.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

And you're overcharging in rapid fire range. Where the rule doesn't matter...

If you're not, sounds like you need to make the choice whether to risk it or not. Oh no, a decision!

Or plasma cannons at medium to long range.

 Selym wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

Yes, because they totally wrote this article in few hours as a response to these leaks...

 Crimson wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

Yes, because they totally wrote this article in few hours as a response to these leaks...

Likely had it written and pushed it forwards in the que.

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

You people were complaining that the Tactics were too generic, and when you get Strategems for this you complain it's unit specific.

Frickin pick one, people.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

Yes, because they totally wrote this article in few hours as a response to these leaks...

Likely had it written and pushed it forwards in the que.

You'll notice the image names in the new article have new names with random characters at the end. Something to prohibit fishing for leaks?

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kSM_ChapterTacs5jd.jpg
vs
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RGChapterFocusBoxout.jpg

White Scars Chapter Tactics seem fun to use.

I'll see what bonuses Blood Angels get before committing to an SM Army.