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We have some seminars in the evenings including a very exciting GW seminar on Thursday night!

 Reecius wrote:
No we don't check the 700+ lists coming in to the LVO for 40k, alone. It isn't realistic.

We will require people to upload their lists to BCP, though, so be prepared for that.

@Primark G

They announced it at NOVA.

This is amazingly good news Reecius. Thanks for sharing this announcement - really this is something GW should provide to support match play. I really feel like they hit it out of the park this edition. I also want to say that with your crazy attendence level I understand your position. I think you are doing great things with your FLG Team.

Will LVO be implementing both of the Beta rules introduced by GW today? GWs said you were... you going to call them liars?

Food Vendor Options were not very good last year.

Please advise if they are going to be the same so I can plan accordingly...

Yeah, we are using the beta rules.

Where can I submit my list to ensure it is legal? Aside from just confirming myself and adding points manually etc. Sorry is my first tournament and literally flying coast to coast to play so just want to confirm (would suck to get there and get DQed)

Also what does this mean and what do I need to do to meet the requirements?
"We will require people to upload their lists to BCP, though, so be prepared for that. "

Also super naive question, but is there a place I can find the official rules for doubles 40k? Does it play just like a standard game except point cap is 1000 per army at 2 detachments? This may seem obvious but for example for reinforcements, I would be able to put 500 points in reinforcements but need more on the table? Points are shared, so whoever slays the warlord gets the points (goes to that team so to speak) and this can be achieved twice in the same game? Etc.

@Orkswubwub

You will be uploading your list to BCP. They are hwat we run the tournament with. You can download the app to your phone: https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/

You can post it here, too: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1613071449014245/

Rules are here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13PuLuze74yFqemAmbn7A2AXhrxww-sCniuf1fskkt3w/edit

But to specify: each player has a unique 1,000pt army following normal list writing guidelines. The two armies do not interact in any way and the only limitation is that you cannot have more than 1 of any unique characters on the table.

Seems tournament is not yet posted to BCP?

Not yet. Once we pass the deadline for any refunds we will upload the roster to BCP. Doesn't make sense to do it prior to that as it shifts around with drops, adds, etc. But, by the end of the month it will be ready to rock.

One more question, since there isn't an official ITC faq, will the head judge of LVO be open for rules questions? I've sent some to GW but not sure if I'll get a response by March, so I don't know if LVO will be answering questions on its own.

Yes, you can send in rules questions.

Is there a simple question simple answer thread or location for noobs? I am new to the scene and had a couple questions:

1) For Nurgle Deamon Prince - Deathguard - There is an official gamesworkshop nurgle deamon prince model -
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Chaos-Space-Marines-Nurgle-Daemon-Prince

but is it possible to declare another daemon prince model as nurgle/deathguard and use the same datasheet?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Daemon-Prince-2016

2) For Renegade commander - the official model i believe is from:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FR/Renegade-Militia-Command

But I know renegades are often converts / mashups of other models - is it possible to use a different model as renegade commander and who has to approve it?

You can totally use a normal Daemon Prince as a nurgle prince. Not a problem.

And yes, we allow reasonable conversions so long as they are easily identifiable to your opponent.

Hey Reece, quick question: I'm using Bloodreavers as CSM Cultists. How crazy do I legally have to get with the converting or can they keep the duel melee weapons and I'll slap on a holstered pistol somewhere?

 andysonic1 wrote:
Hey Reece, quick question: I'm using Bloodreavers as CSM Cultists. How crazy do I legally have to get with the converting or can they keep the duel melee weapons and I'll slap on a holstered pistol somewhere?

Speaking as a veteran of the LVO kiddie pool, you'll be fine.

Cultists are civilians of whatever tech level a planet might be ... and then they get religion of the 8 pointed star kind. GW's Blood reavers ought to be acceptable.

Just make sure they're painted to the standards ITC calls for.

Apologies if this isn’t the place for this, but will there be any FAQs in place for Tsons, GK, etc who have a reduced version of smite but still got shafted by the beta rules?

 Brothererekose wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Hey Reece, quick question: I'm using Bloodreavers as CSM Cultists. How crazy do I legally have to get with the converting or can they keep the duel melee weapons and I'll slap on a holstered pistol somewhere?

Speaking as a veteran of the LVO kiddie pool, you'll be fine.

Cultists are civilians of whatever tech level a planet might be ... and then they get religion of the 8 pointed star kind. GW's Blood reavers ought to be acceptable.

Just make sure they're painted to the standards ITC calls for.

Painting's not an issue, I enjoy it a lot. Now for the second part of this Cultist problem I'm in: I have 20 CSM Cultist models and 20 Bloodreavers. I want to use them all in one unit, with 20 models holding autoguns (Cultist models) and 20 with melee weapon + pistol (Bloodreaver models). If they are all painted similarly to appear as one unit, will this be an issue?

 andysonic1 wrote:
Now for the second part of this Cultist problem I'm in: I have 20 CSM Cultist models and 20 Bloodreavers. I want to use them all in one unit, with 20 models holding autoguns (Cultist models) and 20 with melee weapon + pistol (Bloodreaver models). If they are all painted similarly to appear as one unit, will this be an issue?

No, this should not be an issue for anyone.
The CSM codex entry says that it is legal, and since your models are definitely two separate, designated sets, I'd be okay with:
"My 20 CSM cultist models have autoguns and the BloodReaver models have the pistol and club."

What would you expect/like to see?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Apologies if this isn’t the place for this, but will there be any FAQs in place for Tsons, GK, etc who have a reduced version of smite but still got shafted by the beta rules?

Hey guys, sorry for my delayed response, been battling a cold.

Reavers as cultists is fine I do the same thing myself =) They just look so much cooler. And, IIRC, the BRB actually states that pistols and grenades are considered to be on the models even if they're not holding them.

@GreyKnight

Obviously if I did know of an inbound FAQ I couldn't say anything about it, sorry.

But, it may feel like a nerf but in our experience it isn't, particularly for GK. If you were relying on their baby smite to win games you were probably doing something wrong (not to be rude). We use GK loads here and rarely even cast their smite unless playing Daemons, of course.

And, in reverse, it means you are getting hit with less Smites which for an army like GK is actually a big deal as you are so low model count. It helps you more than hurts you in that scenario.

Hello
Spellcrow is wargaming miniatures, bits (40k compatible), terrain,scenery and accesories company based in Poland. You may find our products both online at http://www.spellcrow.com/, ebay and other physical and online stores acorss the world.

We will gladly sponsor any tournament with free prizes for all participants and winners.
Just mail us at: spellcrow@umbraturris.com using hashtag #TournamentSponsorhip and tell us a bit about your tournament.

We are looking forward to supporting you!

@ Reece or
@ Thread

I havent had much play time before the LVO yet and I was downloading mission packets from www.frontlinegaming.org.

Is the LVO champs series using the "8th Edition Champion's Missions" or the other two packets?

Many thanks. Looking forward to the LVO!

 Reecius wrote:
But, it may feel like a nerf but in our experience it isn't, particularly for GK. If you were relying on their baby smite to win games you were probably doing something wrong (not to be rude). We use GK loads here and rarely even cast their smite unless playing Daemons, of course.

I don't know if I've seen a player do GK 'right' in 8th then. I'd be genuinely interested in seeing how it's supposed to be done.

And, in reverse, it means you are getting hit with less Smites which for an army like GK is actually a big deal as you are so low model count. It helps you more than hurts you in that scenario.

nevermind. I think I figured out what you're saying.

 Reecius wrote:
@Orkswubwub

You will be uploading your list to BCP. They are hwat we run the tournament with. You can download the app to your phone: https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/

You can post it here, too: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1613071449014245/

Rules are here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13PuLuze74yFqemAmbn7A2AXhrxww-sCniuf1fskkt3w/edit

But to specify: each player has a unique 1,000pt army following normal list writing guidelines. The two armies do not interact in any way and the only limitation is that you cannot have more than 1 of any unique characters on the table.

Last year the BCP app was terrible. I took in many cases up to 20 minutes just to get it to load our opponents due to the high number of players and lists loaded into the application. Has this been rectified?

Question regarding multiple codex detachment interactions: I know that if I take a CSM Battalion and a Daemons Battalion that I can take Artifacts from both if I spend the CP to take from the Detachment that does not contain my warlord. However, I would like my CSM Daemon Prince to take a Daemons Codex artifact. It hits all the required keywords to do so, however this stratagem is done before the battle begins and may not be legal since keywords may still be in play. I would like to hear a ruling on this since a CSM Daemon Prince with Skullreaver leading World Eaters and Khorne Daemons would be absolutely brutal.

@Spellcrow

Thanks for the support!

@Doktor G

Champion's Missions.

@Daedalus

Most successful, competitive GK players use lots of Strikes, sometimes Dreadknight Grand Masters and Interceptors but not always, moderate character support, and deep strike in using things like Astra Aim and Psilencers to lay down a boatload of multi-damage firepower. Same goes with their Devastator squad (the name of which escapes me).

If you play them with a detachment of say, Astra Militarum to compliment them, they work very well together. Playing pure GK is very challenging but that is not because they aren't good, just because they (like most elite armies) lack some of the essential tools you need to succeed in the hyper-aggressive 8th ed competitive meta. You have to be able to screen effectively, and elite armies by their nature aren;t good at that unless they have a hyper-durable unit like Bullgryn, or some Nurgle units that can take a vicious punch.

Lacking that, you are just waiting to get alpha struck out of a tournament. That is why GK struggle and why they can be tough to play pure in a competitive setting.

They have amazing units and elements to them, but their 1 damage smite is certainly not a cornerstone of their competitive strategy. Their other powers are better by a mile. The baby smite is something you do when you don't have anything else to do, not something you rely on to win games.

@Togusa

Not many folks have reported that, actually, We had some slowing when the network got over-stressed but generally it ran very smoothly and is what makes large events possible. However, sounds like you experience was poor, which sucks.

To my knowledge the app has been stress tested up to 10,000 active users, so I believe we will be fine.

If you find yourself struggling to use it on your phone, you can always go up to the judge's desk and use one of the iPads we have for that purpose.

@Andysonic1

Typically, assume relics and strats and such work only on the units from their Dex. There are some exceptions, but look at the faction keywords, not necessarily the general keywords. It gets confusing because "Daemon" is in both categories at times, but as a rule of thumb, look at the faction keyword for those things.

 Reecius wrote:
@Andysonic1

Typically, assume relics and strats and such work only on the units from their Dex. There are some exceptions, but look at the faction keywords, not necessarily the general keywords. It gets confusing because "Daemon" is in both categories at times, but as a rule of thumb, look at the faction keyword for those things.

Is that a house rule for this particular tournament? Because (and I know you guys helped write these rules but I'm going to link them anyways) the FAQs seem to contradict that:

Designer's Commentary - https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Q: What is the difference between a keyword and a Faction keyword?

A: The only real difference is that Faction keywords are used when building an army; when Battle-forging an army, for instance, you will often only be able to include units in the same detachment if they share the same Faction keyword. Also, if you are playing a matched play game, you will need to have an Army Faction – this is a Faction keyword that is shared by all of the units in your entire army (with the exception of those that are Unaligned). Once the battle has begun, there is no functional difference between a keyword and a Faction keyword.

For example, when creating a Battle-forged army for matched play, I take two Patrol Detachments; the first contains only units with the Heretic Astartes Faction keyword, and the second contains only units with the Daemon Faction keyword. My Army Faction is ‘Chaos’ because this is a Faction keyword every unit in the entire army shares.Once the battle has begun, the distinction between keywords and Faction keywords no longer has any effect – both are used to interact with abilities identically. Imagine, then, that the Heretic Astartes Detachment contains a unit of Possessed (which does not have the DaemonFaction keyword, but does have the Daemon keyword), and I choose for them to replace their <Mark of Chaos> keyword with Khorne. If the Daemon Detachment contained a Herald of Khorne, his ability to ‘add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all Khorne Daemons’ would also apply to the unit of Possessed, as they have both the Khorne and Daemon keywords.

Death Guard FAQ - https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_death_guard_en.pdf

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Space Marines to target a unit from Codex: Death Guard? For example, can I use the Tide of Traitors Stratagem on a unit of Cultists from a Death Guard Detachment if I have an Alpha Legion Detachment and a Death Guard Detachment in a single Battle-forged army?

A: Yes – if you have access to a Stratagem because you have an appropriate Detachment, it can be used on any permitted target: they do not need to be from that Detachment. In your example, the Alpha Legion Detachment gives access to the Chaos Space Marine Stratagems, and Tide of Traitors can be used on any Chaos Cultists – this would include any Chaos Cultists from the Death Guard Detachment.

So are we getting a huge exception with the Daemon Codex in regards to Stratagems working on CSM Daemon units, or is everyone wrong when they say things like, "We can Deep Strike in Magnus now"? Because there is a lot of debate around this particular topic. It's not my original question but it has to do with the interaction "before the battle begins".

 Reecius wrote:
@Spellcrow

Thanks for the support!

@Doktor G

Champion's Missions.

@Daedalus

Most successful, competitive GK players use lots of Strikes, sometimes Dreadknight Grand Masters and Interceptors but not always, moderate character support, and deep strike in using things like Astra Aim and Psilencers to lay down a boatload of multi-damage firepower. Same goes with their Devastator squad (the name of which escapes me).

If you play them with a detachment of say, Astra Militarum to compliment them, they work very well together. Playing pure GK is very challenging but that is not because they aren't good, just because they (like most elite armies) lack some of the essential tools you need to succeed in the hyper-aggressive 8th ed competitive meta. You have to be able to screen effectively, and elite armies by their nature aren;t good at that unless they have a hyper-durable unit like Bullgryn, or some Nurgle units that can take a vicious punch.

Lacking that, you are just waiting to get alpha struck out of a tournament. That is why GK struggle and why they can be tough to play pure in a competitive setting.

They have amazing units and elements to them, but their 1 damage smite is certainly not a cornerstone of their competitive strategy. Their other powers are better by a mile. The baby smite is something you do when you don't have anything else to do, not something you rely on to win games.

@Togusa

Not many folks have reported that, actually, We had some slowing when the network got over-stressed but generally it ran very smoothly and is what makes large events possible. However, sounds like you experience was poor, which sucks.

To my knowledge the app has been stress tested up to 10,000 active users, so I believe we will be fine.

If you find yourself struggling to use it on your phone, you can always go up to the judge's desk and use one of the iPads we have for that purpose.

@Andysonic1

Typically, assume relics and strats and such work only on the units from their Dex. There are some exceptions, but look at the faction keywords, not necessarily the general keywords. It gets confusing because "Daemon" is in both categories at times, but as a rule of thumb, look at the faction keyword for those things.

Good information to know. Last year I reported the troubles, but I never followed up as it slipped my mind until just recently.

 Reecius wrote:

Most successful, competitive GK players use lots of Strikes, sometimes Dreadknight Grand Masters and Interceptors but not always, moderate character support, and deep strike in using things like Astra Aim and Psilencers to lay down a boatload of multi-damage firepower. Same goes with their Devastator squad (the name of which escapes me).

If you play them with a detachment of say, Astra Militarum to compliment them, they work very well together. Playing pure GK is very challenging but that is not because they aren't good, just because they (like most elite armies) lack some of the essential tools you need to succeed in the hyper-aggressive 8th ed competitive meta. You have to be able to screen effectively, and elite armies by their nature aren;t good at that unless they have a hyper-durable unit like Bullgryn, or some Nurgle units that can take a vicious punch.

Lacking that, you are just waiting to get alpha struck out of a tournament. That is why GK struggle and why they can be tough to play pure in a competitive setting.

They have amazing units and elements to them, but their 1 damage smite is certainly not a cornerstone of their competitive strategy. Their other powers are better by a mile. The baby smite is something you do when you don't have anything else to do, not something you rely on to win games.

That's close to how my 60 scions and I figured it would be. Thanks for the response.

@andysonic1

Yeah, there is some confusion on this topic but I would not come to the LVO assuming I could use Daemon strats on anything other than units that were Daemon Faction units.

I would assume if I was a Daemon player that a Daemon FAQ would be coming out quickly on the heels of the Daemon book as has been the case with other Cdoex releases. We will look to them to answer these questions but no, I would not plan on deep-striking (or any other similar uses of stratagems) Magnus, Mortarion, the Lord of Skulls, etc. with the Daemon codex. Again, we will look to GW for official answers but as friendly advice, that would be what I would say to anyone thinking about bringing that to the LVO.