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 Selym wrote:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Thier liars, or their donkey-caves.

I'm sorry, but see sig.

Semicolon used incorrectly in your sig. There's no winning in this world.

Eldarsif wrote:
I am not sure if this applies in this case, but I'll admit why I find IG a bit boring this edition. I've even noticed that the IG players themselves are a bit bored with this in my FLGS as well.

It's the endless turn. Playing against IG means you are going to spend a large turn waiting for your IG opponent to finish their turn and it just gets boring after a while. Games that should have taken 2-3 hours suddenly take 5-6 hours because IG is just shooting endlessly.

I never had this problem with IG before 8th so my guess is that the split-fire possibility has made IG play much much slower than before. Instead of having an entire unit shoot at a another unit we have IG players evaluate endlessly over their massive forces how to split fire and how to maximize effectiveness. This will of course drag the game's length a lot as people are splitting their dice pools, adding orders, and any other force multipliers.

I've actually seen a few IG players turn towards smaller elite forces(Space Marines) because they just got tired of how long a game took when playing IG.

Again, not sure if this is a problem in your games, but something I've noticed locally.

It's absolutely this.
I only have two regular opponents and they play Tau and IG and I feel like I'm only playing half the game because neither of them have moved out of their deployment zone in the 6 or so games we've played. If they move at all.

When I played them the first few games it was with Nids and every game was "can I make it to the other side of the table intact" and that got boring pretty fast. The last few were with Sisters and they were slightly more interesting because I needed to think about where to apply pressure because their shooting outweighed mine. In any case I went home for a holiday and got two games against Orks and Eldar and they were MUCH more interesting because I had to worry about ork boys and a biker blob or deep striking scorpions or banshees in a wave serpent and such like. The game just felt much more dynamic against them because there were more factors to consider past "can I kill them before they shoot me to death".

My suggestion would be to take a more mobile, shorter range list. Throw in a few deep striking units. Keep your opponents on their toes rather than leaving them to weather a hail of lasgun shots from stationary positions and hope for the best.

IG does seem to take a long time now. Infantry cannot group up, which saved time in 7th and before. Being able to shoot with everything is like having lots of smaller squads, too.

I'm looking to go back to Eldar or Space Marines for that reason.

Audustum wrote:
Can you tell us one of your opponents' lists? See what you're running against?

I want to see this, too.

Another thing you could try is the open play scenarios instead of matched play. The one where you defend the center against up to double the amount of points and whoever is closest to the center of the table at the end wins.

They get to fight from a position of power, but you have the tactical advantage and get to play an imperial guard last stand.

Fluffy, challenging, fun. Mat he'd play missions just may be TOO even for your game group.

 Klowny wrote:


I know how you feel, I've was in the same boat in 7th, had to severely power down my necrons due to fighting guard/tyranids/fluffy demons. Had a crazy good win rate and only fielded the decurion twice, tried as much as possible to not bring powerful lists, helped and encouraged them with lists/stronger combos. Still won a lot and my cron's weren't fun to play against, due in part because of necrons RP making losses hard to get, and part because I was playing the game much better than they could. It's not fun for either party.

Luckily for me 8th has brought their power up and mine down, so it feels like a battle now instead of a slaughter. And now I feel how they felt in 7th, especially when going up against guard. They just aren't fun to play against, conscripts are ridiculously hard to kill, put out ludicrous firepower with FRFSRF. Scion spam is hard to deal with, and most of your big guns have the range to hit others before they hit you/not even need LOS.

My friend spams conscripts and scions and wyverns/mortar teams all day. A list I would decimate in 7th now I can't kill even 40% of.

I haven't found a solution yet, I still know/play the game better than my friends, and still help them, but I've just been lucky to have a nerf, not an insane power increase.

My suggestion is from personal experience.
I remember wayyy back when I was having a really hard time with life.
Just life, generally, was hard.
Of course, I retreated into games, painting, hobby.
That was my escape, the vacation that I was never going to be able to afford,
and I got to do it on the weekends, if I had time.
So, when I showed up with the models that I had stayed up till 3 am drinking alone to get painted,
perfectly enough when everything else seemed to be falling apart,
and rolled ones ALL Saturday afternoon,
I would get pissy.
I never blamed the other guys, but I bet I wasn't a joy to be around.
I mean, I was miserable in general.

Anyways, my point is that
MAYBE
these people are having a tough time of it,
off the table,
and are looking for a breezy time on table with light banter just to relax.
They DO NOT want to compete - they want support, cooperation, friendship.

How much does this describe your/their situations?
I may be way off, but this is the best insight that I can muster.

If I am in the ballpark, then I would just show up to spend time with those people
and bring the stuff I wanted to try out, maybe the new army,
maybe ask them to do a smaller point game, or a couple of them to try new units rules,
maybe get the hang of a flyer - something like that.
Those might be the people who would like to play more narratively -
I know that I would have been into such a suggestion fifteen years ago when I could have made time
and otherwise just felt so down.

Maybe this is one way to go, here.
Back off your "list" (which looks hellafun to play against don't get me wrong here)
maybe pick up a second hand army for cheap
and just give it a whirl with these guys,
ask for their advice.
See how something like that pans out.

 jeff white wrote:

 Klowny wrote:


I know how you feel, I've was in the same boat in 7th, had to severely power down my necrons due to fighting guard/tyranids/fluffy demons. Had a crazy good win rate and only fielded the decurion twice, tried as much as possible to not bring powerful lists, helped and encouraged them with lists/stronger combos. Still won a lot and my cron's weren't fun to play against, due in part because of necrons RP making losses hard to get, and part because I was playing the game much better than they could. It's not fun for either party.

Luckily for me 8th has brought their power up and mine down, so it feels like a battle now instead of a slaughter. And now I feel how they felt in 7th, especially when going up against guard. They just aren't fun to play against, conscripts are ridiculously hard to kill, put out ludicrous firepower with FRFSRF. Scion spam is hard to deal with, and most of your big guns have the range to hit others before they hit you/not even need LOS.

My friend spams conscripts and scions and wyverns/mortar teams all day. A list I would decimate in 7th now I can't kill even 40% of.

I haven't found a solution yet, I still know/play the game better than my friends, and still help them, but I've just been lucky to have a nerf, not an insane power increase.

My suggestion is from personal experience.
I remember wayyy back when I was having a really hard time with life.
Just life, generally, was hard.
Of course, I retreated into games, painting, hobby.
That was my escape, the vacation that I was never going to be able to afford,
and I got to do it on the weekends, if I had time.
So, when I showed up with the models that I had stayed up till 3 am drinking alone to get painted,
perfectly enough when everything else seemed to be falling apart,
and rolled ones ALL Saturday afternoon,
I would get pissy.
I never blamed the other guys, but I bet I wasn't a joy to be around.
I mean, I was miserable in general.

Anyways, my point is that
MAYBE
these people are having a tough time of it,
off the table,
and are looking for a breezy time on table with light banter just to relax.
They DO NOT want to compete - they want support, cooperation, friendship.

How much does this describe your/their situations?
I may be way off, but this is the best insight that I can muster.

If I am in the ballpark, then I would just show up to spend time with those people
and bring the stuff I wanted to try out, maybe the new army,
maybe ask them to do a smaller point game, or a couple of them to try new units rules,
maybe get the hang of a flyer - something like that.
Those might be the people who would like to play more narratively -
I know that I would have been into such a suggestion fifteen years ago when I could have made time
and otherwise just felt so down.

Maybe this is one way to go, here.
Back off your "list" (which looks hellafun to play against don't get me wrong here)
maybe pick up a second hand army for cheap
and just give it a whirl with these guys,
ask for their advice.
See how something like that pans out.

*patter of bongo drums as the poetry slam session comes to a close*

the_scotsman wrote:


*patter of bongo drums as the poetry slam session comes to a close*

I was actually worried that I was the only one who read it like that.

I read the first page no more sorry.

Thus, this is all probably covered but if not:

If concerned about hygiene is lost cause from get go, what do you play with apes???

If you winning a lot (and not much of a larrikin/sociable) I can give a few sayings which will always bring them to play again (I play pick ups occasionally, usually win but they always say is best game had in along time):

1. Man that is an awesome painted army mate.
2. Ye it's going to well for me, bloody hell I must have prayed to the dice gods. If that wasn't so, you would have smashed me.
3. You know that baneblade on a 3+ comes back to life with half wounds... Well it does now mate.
4. That was a bloody excellent game, if the dice hadn't allowed me to do x,y & Z you would have had it.
5. It was the bloody mission mate, if we had of had XXX you would have hammered it... next time.
6. My army is freakin OP this edition (though not true like most above) what army do you think is balanced?

What not to do (They already hated the game enough for you to make a post)

1. Offer suggestions on their list.
2. Say you should have done this and this and you would of had me.
3. Say anything about tactics (on their regard, just focus on you and how lucky you are and direct comments towards how awesome anything they did in the match is)

Real discussions are for people you know/play regularly/ mates/ etc. Pick ups are to have fun for a bit and that's it.

Quick thoughts, sry if said already

SC

Advice in real time helps.

If you're watching people make bad tactical decisions, and then saying, "OH WEEEEEEEEEEEEERPS, YOU SHOULDA DUN THIS INSTEAD! GOOOOOOOT EMMMM!!" that's a problem.

If I see someone about to make a tactical blunder, I usually say, "Before you do that - did you consider x? It can have the following impact."

For instance, I recently played a game where someone declared a charge that he would not have been able to make, due to the base of a flier. So, I said, "wait, before you do that - let's make sure you can actually get into within 1" of the target. Otherwise, you'll eat a round of overwatch, and regardless of your roll, you'll fail the charge."

I could have easily said, "Ok, buddy! good luck. OH WUPS YA DUN GOT BLASTED A-A-RON!"

Technically, you can't even attempt a charge unless you are within 12" of the enemy unit.

 Marmatag wrote:
Advice in real time helps.

If you're watching people make bad tactical decisions, and then saying, "OH WEEEEEEEEEEEEERPS, YOU SHOULDA DUN THIS INSTEAD! GOOOOOOOT EMMMM!!" that's a problem.

If I see someone about to make a tactical blunder, I usually say, "Before you do that - did you consider x? It can have the following impact."

For instance, I recently played a game where someone declared a charge that he would not have been able to make, due to the base of a flier. So, I said, "wait, before you do that - let's make sure you can actually get into within 1" of the target. Otherwise, you'll eat a round of overwatch, and regardless of your roll, you'll fail the charge."

I could have easily said, "Ok, buddy! good luck. OH WUPS YA DUN GOT BLASTED A-A-RON!"

This is granted I would think in a pick up (It's not serious business, if you take it as so...).

If you not saying lets measure that before hand or letting them know what can happen you not being a good sport (not every casual knows all the rules etc). Moreover, if they forget something say psychic phase etc, you let them do it later (who cares, is a pick up).

 daedalus wrote:
Technically, you can't even attempt a charge unless you are within 12" of the enemy unit.

Yes, and you can be within 12, but because of the position of impassable terrain + a flier's base, you may not physically be able to get within 1", because of the size of your miniature. It was an just an example, that I ran into.

Ah, I believe I understand the situation now.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this. Perhaps it is THEM that has the questionable army. What are they actually fielding against you? If it's woefully ill-suited to fight what you throw at them, perhaps you could help them with that too. Do you remember roughly the lists?