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 Xenomancers wrote:
I've never actually seen a game end like the saints game last night. A hail mary into the endzone and a whoever catches it wins yeah...but a midfield pass and nobody touches him? That is just poor defense. Was going for the saints but I think the Vikes are probably the best team this year - they got a good chance to win it all. Eagles will get stomped I think.

#43 Williams was probably told to avoid the PI at all costs since it was Keenum's last shot. I think he expected Diggs to run to the outside to stop the clock, his head is down and he's committed to the tackle already, but his timing is off and he cut blocks #20 which is the real killer. Williams is still fresh out of college and is barely 21, it happens.

The play

 Alpharius wrote:
Right?

Take the Steelers performace.

*Clearly* they mismanaged MANY aspects of the game.

And I think almost as clearly, they were looking *past* this game, to the AFC Championship.

I know their OC is a hot button for some, but to me, the DC and possibly even the Head Coach should be on the hot seat there.

As for the Pats, they should be OK, but IF the Jags can put serious pressure on Brady rushing only 4 (The Infamous "Giants Model" ), it could certainly be interesting!

I wouldn't put all the blame on the OC - the jags have an outstanding secondary. Jack made an amazing interception on a well thrown and well played ball. Plus - the jags made an amazing 4th and goal opening drive touchdown run with Fournette taking to the air. They did everything they could to come back from those things but they just got outplayed. The only real mistake the steelers made was kicking the onside with 2:20 left in the game and 2 time outs. They had a better chance trying for a 3 and out at that point in the game - not a huge mistake though - a lot of teams would have gone for the onside there.

I disagree - I think that there WAS a huge mistake.

That's why the HC is probably feeling the heat.

Also, note that I said the OC should not be feeling pressure - he's an issue for other reasons and other games, but not this one!

I don't think Jacksonville can beat the Patriots. I think it's New England's superbowl win at this point as the Eagles have shown they are good, but not great without the QB they had all season, and if the vikings can't stop New Orleans in the second half last Sunday, they certainly won't stop Brady.

The last LA Tech player in the play offs this year is Ryan Allen of the Patriots, so I guess I'll root for the punter.

Well, the Jags can beat the Patriots IF they can effectively rush and disrupt Brady with 4 up front AND if Blake plays another great game.

Unlikely, but possible!

Same thing can happen in the Superbowl, if the Pats make it there.

No guarantees, of course but yes, go Pats!

Tinfoil hat time. When Jay Ajayi was traded to the Eagles I said that I wouldn't be suprised if they do end up playing in London since they have a native and the Eagles were looking so good at the time that the Superbowl wasn't too crazy of a thought and people have been loving Wentz.

Now we find ourselves not only looking at the birds going to London next year, but the team they'll be playing against is also in a conference championship.

So I'm predicting an Eagles Jaguar Superbowl with the Eagles getting the win and the London game will be billed as the rematch. It's a game that could get a lot of buzz over there and for people sick of the Patriots it could make for a lot of buzz leading into the playoffs here.

 Alpharius wrote:
Well, the Jags can beat the Patriots IF they can effectively rush and disrupt Brady with 4 up front AND if Blake plays another great game.

Unlikely, but possible!

Same thing can happen in the Superbowl, if the Pats make it there.

No guarantees, of course but yes, go Pats!

<---reformed ex-Rams fan.

GO PATS!

The Jags front 4 does seem beastly though... gameplan for Pats is quick slants (Amendola / Gronk!!) and copious running game.

Tom needs an addition...

I am hoping to see "Keenum vs Bortles in a Superbowl shootout" because...why the heck not

I do think the Jags can beat the Patriots, as the Patriots have looked far from unbeatable this year.
One of the factors in their favour though it that they have done this all before. They know the pressure of playoff games all to well, and I think this cant be under estimated.

Still, as a Dolphins Fan (even though I'm married to a Pats fan!) I would love a Jags win!

As for the other game? Think it depends which Eagles turn up. If its the ones from last week then I think they have enough to take it, if its the Eagles as they were playing just after they lost Wentz then the Viking could take it.

I think I predict a Pats Eagles final, but think id love a Jags Eagles one more.
Though the thought of Foles lifting the Superbowl is a bit baffling......

YIKES!

Props to the Jags - that was a close one!!!

Good thing it is 2 weeks to the Superbowl - Gronk will be back for that...

Go Pats!!!

Yuk.

Brady!

'nother comebacker!

Very entertaining game!

bbb wrote:Yuk.

Eagles or Steelers fan?

whembly wrote:Brady!

'nother comebacker!

Very entertaining game!

That's one way of looking at it - especially as it ended the right way!

The Eagles manhandled the Vikings. No home game Super Bowl, again. Should be a great Super Bowl .

 Alpharius wrote:

bbb wrote:Yuk.

Eagles or Steelers fan?

whembly wrote:Brady!

'nother comebacker!

Very entertaining game!

That's one way of looking at it - especially as it ended the right way!

Eagles.

E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!!!!

Is the NFL so lacking in talent overall that one team dominates the Championship consistently? I mean good for the Pats but it is tiring seeing the same thing over and over and over.

 Alpharius wrote:
Right?

Take the Steelers performace.

*Clearly* they mismanaged MANY aspects of the game.

And I think almost as clearly, they were looking *past* this game, to the AFC Championship.

I know their OC is a hot button for some, but to me, the DC and possibly even the Head Coach should be on the hot seat there.

As for the Pats, they should be OK, but IF the Jags can put serious pressure on Brady rushing only 4 (The Infamous "Giants Model" ), it could certainly be interesting!

Regarding Haley's employment with the Steelers...the issue wasn't their performance in the AFCCG. The Rooneys don't fire coaches like that. The issues were almost certainly about 1) the offense underachieving overall and 2) his personality and personal dramas. Haley is a weird cat who also tends to rub people the wrong way. He was the guy who thought the Chiefs had bugged his offices, alleged that he found a rat in a McDonald's salad, was accused of trashing a house he and his wife were renting, has been in multiple altercations in Pittsburgh bars...etc. As an OC, he's not bad and deserves credit for getting Roethlisberger to rein in the playground stuff. But he also outsmarts himself a lot. I have no idea what they were thinking with the 3 TE sets they opened with against the Jags. Once they ditched it and *got their WRs on the field and attacked the D*, they tore them up. And when the franchise QB also only has a so-so working relationship him...it's an easy call to make.

I was at the Jags game and don't blame Tomlin for kicking offsides. The defense had shown no interest in stopping Jacksonville all day. That puts the HC in a no-win situation. If they kick deep and the Jags run off a couple first downs to win the game, Tomlin would have been criticized for trusting a unit that'd been horrendous and not giving his offense (that had been tearing up a good defense) a chance to win the game. The Steelers also weren't genuinely 'looking past' a team that had beaten them earlier in the year. It was more about their ILBs getting exploited in Shazier's absence, and the well-paid d-line failing to show up for the game.


Anyway, I couldn't care less about the SB. Would have rooted for the Vikes had they made it. *shrug*

@Ahtman -- IMO, the Pats do a really good job at two things that serve them well for the playoffs -- 1) not beating themselves, and 2) dominating what is almost always a ridiculously weak division, thereby getting playoff berths, byes and home field advantages. It's a much tougher road when you have to play in wild card rounds and away from home. Also, playoff meltdowns are a real thing (see the Vikings) and the Pats simply don't do it.

It also doesn't hurt that Brady is arguably the best quarterback of all time and Bill Belichick is a top notch coach. That makes them a perennial contender, especially when you look at their division (as Gorgon notes). I get that people can get tired of it, but it's kind of like the Bulls with MJ- powerhouse teams usually dominate for a while. Also, consider that before Parcells came to the Patriots, they were pretty sorry.They made it to 2 playoff games in the 70s 9lost both), 1 Superbowl in the 80s (where Chicago killed them) and one subsequent playoff appearance would be there last foreight years. Their 1990 record? 1 and 15!

Really, they are a great example of how even a historical bad team can become a winning franchise.

Yeah, Steelers fans often lose their minds over NE, and I get it in a way. The Ben Roethlisberger era would look a lot different without Brady and Belichick so often blocking them. They could have another 2 or 3 SB wins.

But you know, the Cowboys had some great teams in the '70s under Landry. If it hadn't been for the '70 Steelers, they probably would have had 4 SB wins during the decade and been thought of the way that people think of the Steelers of that era. It's a frustrating position to be in, but gak like that happens in sports.

Brady and Belichick are the best QB-coach combo ever, and that's a really hard thing to beat. Brady would be great elsewhere but not as great, just like Belichick was a good goach in Cleveland but not the league's best. They elevate each other.

They really do - and it seems obvious, but we get the 'debates' anyway...

Oh well - something to talk about, I suppose!

About this Superbowl - NE never makes it easy, is almost always involved in close games no matter what, and usually does just enough to win.

Would be great to see them win another, to really close out the era...

You wanna know why Brady had to wear a glove yesterday?

 whembly wrote:
You wanna know why Brady had to wear a glove yesterday?

Spoiler:

He underwent an experimental surgery to add a 6th finger for his next ring

you sir, have hurt my soul.

 whembly wrote:
You wanna know why Brady had to wear a glove yesterday?

Spoiler:

He underwent an experimental surgery to add a 6th finger for his next ring

Ha!

I'd heard that one, but even I wasn't going to post it here!

I should have added the caveat that a) it is a minor gripe at best and b) not a criticism of the Pats but the other teams.

By stats Brady is easily one of the best QBs that has ever played but he still seems to lack that X factor that makes him popular outside of Pats fans for the most part. He is essentially an NPC QB on the hardest setting of a football video game; all game no personality. Hell this was discussed last Superbowl (and before) and really nothing has changed since then tbh.

Gronk otoh is pretty awesome.

 Ahtman wrote:
I should have added the caveat that a) it is a minor gripe at best and b) not a criticism of the Pats but the other teams.

By stats Brady is easily one of the best QBs that has ever played but he still seems to lack that X factor that makes him popular outside of Pats fans for the most part. He is essentially an NPC QB on the hardest setting of a football video game; all game no personality. Hell this was discussed last Superbowl (and before) and really nothing has changed since then tbh.

Gronk otoh is pretty awesome.

Regarding the NPC thing, there's no doubt that his legacy is completely intertwined with his coach and the offensive system. It made Brady greater to have a system tailored perfectly to him by excellent coaches, and then be allowed to spend a crazy long career executing it. Even though he has the accuracy and smarts to be great anywhere, his career is one of a 'system' QB.

Most fans like their QBs to be brash gunslingers. It seems unfair to say that Brady has none of that. He certainly has the swagger on the field, and he went full video game, let 'er rip during those seasons with Moss. And he showed more physical toughness and bravery than most gave him credit for in last year's SB. STILL...he's a guy who's quick to give up on a play, turtle if he needs to, or complain loudly about getting touched in the pocket even while he gets PF flags that no one else would get (see Terrell Suggs' comments on the matter). Those aren't 'good optics' to a lot of fans, even if those things ultimately contribute to the team winning.

Walsh and Montana were probably the previous 'best coach and QB combo', and yet Montana had more improvisation to his game and chafed just enough under Walsh that fans never viewed him quite the same way as Brady. System QB, sure, but there was something more charming and individualistic about him scrambling around and making plays outside the system at times, compared to Brady's unearthly precision executing *within* his system.

And nothing to do with football, but I think some aspects of Brady's personality and lifestyle are going to rub some people the wrong way. He's just not relatable. He tries too hard at times with the 'regular guy' routine, which seems out of touch with the fact that he married a Brazilian diva supermodel (also not a very relatable person or seemingly even a warm one) who dresses him like some kind of GQ cover model. It's a bad mix overall if you want to be liked by the regular folks.

It really is more down to the fact that, outside of a team's area/fanbase, sustained excellence is going to grate.

Sure, you'll get a fair number of front runner add-ons, but you can't blame people for not wanting to see their team not make it, year after year after year.

Of course, they probably should be annoyed more with their own team's inability to get better in every phase, but it is also true that there's a little lightning in a bottle here in New England too, and when it is gone, it isn't going to be this good for a long time - if ever again.

Ah yes. The Patriots fan refrain. "You're all just jealous!"

It's a little more than that. There have been other QBs who won a bunch of SBs -- Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman -- and although it's impossible to quantify or prove, I don't feel like any of them got a fraction of the hate that Brady gets. Aikman even played for the Cowboys, fer crissakes.

Sure, Brady played longer and won more...but he also had a 10 year drought in there, and during that time there wasn't anyone outside of NE or the league offices (*cough*) rooting for him to win another like they did with more 'loveable' QBs like Favre, Manning, etc.

I maintain that Brady's game simply isn't one that people are attracted to or that kids are inspired by, and that his lifestyle is less relatable than even most movie stars. Scandals also figure here, but I'm trying to keep it focused on Brady and not the Pats organization.

You know you're really just helping me make my point there, right?

Not really. Honestly, I don't think he'd be loved outside of NE even if he was sitting on zero SBs, for the reasons mentioned above. Nothing says a QB has to be a beloved figure though, so it doesn't really matter. I just think it's interesting.

I actually find it strange how so many NE fans seem to still seek affirmation regarding Brady and their team despite all the SB trophies. Is it because of the scandals? I'm not sure that it is...at least not completely.

Er, I think you're overplaying that last part.

I don't run into many people here who really care what anyone thinks about the Pats.

Success generates a lot of hate, and most people are at the 'so be it' stage because, as you say, five championships since 2001.

Maybe you're buying into a national media thing that exists because the Patriots generate a fair amount of clicks?

I think people here get upset over some of the more ridiculous things out there - call it the Max Kellerman Effect - but other than that?

Not so much.