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 RedCommander wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I didn't mean to berate you or anyone else.

All good guv. Sometimes text doesn't come off the way you mean it to.

The Emperor was dying. If that wouldn't disrupt a concenration of a psyker, nothing will. Even if we assume that the normal limits of concenration are an issue to the Emperor, he would have blasted Horus before he could rise his weapon. That is, if he felt no mercy.

I think we can assume that the Emperor's powers of concentration are well beyond that of a normal humans. That said, when he chose to blast Horus, Horus had his back to him and he'd been granted a moment's respite. If we assume that the Emperor is relatively immune to pain (given the demonstrated abilities of Primarchs, assassins, and so forth), there's no reason that being wounded would prove an impediment to his concentrating powers beyond the most minor flash of recognition.

Engaging in sword to sword combat with Horus though? Given the Luna Wolves Primarch's superlative skill and reflextes with the blade/claw, I think it would be safe to assume that the Emperor would have to be focusing most of his attention on close combat whilst engaged in it. Certainly, I don't think he'd be able to muster up his full psychic power whilst dealing with a full on frontal physical assault, and Horus showed that he could brush aside anything less than that full sustained onslaught of concentrated psychic power.

If Horus had known that fact and his vulnerability, he likely would have tried to ambush him and engage in an unceasing flurry of close combat to try and take his father's head before Dad could melt him. It might even well have worked. He was clearly powerful enough to slay his father with a reasonably short number of strikes if he got them in, one more blow or a luckier/more deadly strike earlier on, and the Emperor would have been toast. If he'd been utterly relentless and closed before his dad could fry him (killing intent to one side), he'd certainly have stood a chance at ending it before the Emperor could fully bring his concentrated psychic power to bear.

So the answer to the OP has to be 'As physically powerful as the Emperor.. But not anywhere near as psychically strong as the Emperor.'

 Ketara wrote:

 RedCommander wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I didn't mean to berate you or anyone else.

All good guv. Sometimes text doesn't come off the way you mean it to.

The Emperor was dying. If that wouldn't disrupt a concenration of a psyker, nothing will. Even if we assume that the normal limits of concenration are an issue to the Emperor, he would have blasted Horus before he could rise his weapon. That is, if he felt no mercy.

I think we can assume that the Emperor's powers of concentration are well beyond that of a normal humans. That said, when he chose to blast Horus, Horus had his back to him and he'd been granted a moment's respite. If we assume that the Emperor is relatively immune to pain (given the demonstrated abilities of Primarchs, assassins, and so forth), there's no reason that being wounded would prove an impediment to his concentrating powers beyond the most minor flash of recognition.

Engaging in sword to sword combat with Horus though? Given the Luna Wolves Primarch's superlative skill and reflextes with the blade/claw, I think it would be safe to assume that the Emperor would have to be focusing most of his attention on close combat whilst engaged in it. Certainly, I don't think he'd be able to muster up his full psychic power whilst dealing with a full on frontal physical assault, and Horus showed that he could brush aside anything less than that full sustained onslaught of concentrated psychic power.

If Horus had known that fact and his vulnerability, he likely would have tried to ambush him and engage in an unceasing flurry of close combat to try and take his father's head before Dad could melt him. It might even well have worked. He was clearly powerful enough to slay his father with a reasonably short number of strikes if he got them in, one more blow or a luckier/more deadly strike earlier on, and the Emperor would have been toast. If he'd been utterly relentless and closed before his dad could fry him (killing intent to one side), he'd certainly have stood a chance at ending it before the Emperor could fully bring his concentrated psychic power to bear.

So the answer to the OP has to be 'As physically powerful as the Emperor.. But not anywhere near as psychically strong as the Emperor.'

Physically? That is debatable.

Psychically? There was no chance for Horus.

So, I'm still convinced that the only thing holding the Emperor back was his mercy for his son.

Power just isn't everything...

I look forward to seeing how they handle this question in the new Horus Heresy books.

 RedCommander wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 RedCommander wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I didn't mean to berate you or anyone else.

All good guv. Sometimes text doesn't come off the way you mean it to.

The Emperor was dying. If that wouldn't disrupt a concenration of a psyker, nothing will. Even if we assume that the normal limits of concenration are an issue to the Emperor, he would have blasted Horus before he could rise his weapon. That is, if he felt no mercy.

I think we can assume that the Emperor's powers of concentration are well beyond that of a normal humans. That said, when he chose to blast Horus, Horus had his back to him and he'd been granted a moment's respite. If we assume that the Emperor is relatively immune to pain (given the demonstrated abilities of Primarchs, assassins, and so forth), there's no reason that being wounded would prove an impediment to his concentrating powers beyond the most minor flash of recognition.

Engaging in sword to sword combat with Horus though? Given the Luna Wolves Primarch's superlative skill and reflextes with the blade/claw, I think it would be safe to assume that the Emperor would have to be focusing most of his attention on close combat whilst engaged in it. Certainly, I don't think he'd be able to muster up his full psychic power whilst dealing with a full on frontal physical assault, and Horus showed that he could brush aside anything less than that full sustained onslaught of concentrated psychic power.

If Horus had known that fact and his vulnerability, he likely would have tried to ambush him and engage in an unceasing flurry of close combat to try and take his father's head before Dad could melt him. It might even well have worked. He was clearly powerful enough to slay his father with a reasonably short number of strikes if he got them in, one more blow or a luckier/more deadly strike earlier on, and the Emperor would have been toast. If he'd been utterly relentless and closed before his dad could fry him (killing intent to one side), he'd certainly have stood a chance at ending it before the Emperor could fully bring his concentrated psychic power to bear.

So the answer to the OP has to be 'As physically powerful as the Emperor.. But not anywhere near as psychically strong as the Emperor.'

Physically? That is debatable.

Psychically? There was no chance for Horus.

So, I'm still convinced that the only thing holding the Emperor back was his mercy for his son.

Power just isn't everything...

Is it just me or is showing mercy to Horus weird? He'll slaughter civilisations no problem but the strongest Chaos servant there is is a problem....

pm713 wrote:

Is it just me or is showing mercy to Horus weird? He'll slaughter civilisations no problem but the strongest Chaos servant there is is a problem....

Well if it's any consolation I'm pretty sure it'll be retconned.

But no, I don't think it's weird. Feeling compassion for your favoured son is doesn't mean you're unable to sign death warrants even if they are for innocents. The Emperor was always a big picture guy but confronting Horus slammed his humanity in his face. As it stands, anyway.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Is it just me or is showing mercy to Horus weird? He'll slaughter civilisations no problem but the strongest Chaos servant there is is a problem....

Well if it's any consolation I'm pretty sure it'll be retconned.

But no, I don't think it's weird. Feeling compassion for your favoured son is doesn't mean you're unable to sign death warrants even if they are for innocents. The Emperor was always a big picture guy but confronting Horus slammed his humanity in his face. As it stands, anyway.

It just feels odd when you also have him care zero about other Primarchs.

pm713 wrote:

It just feels odd when you also have him care zero about other Primarchs.

Which came with the ongoing Horus Heresy series. It does kind of conflict at the moment but like I said I don't think the Emperor will be holding back due to loving his son when Black Library get round to it.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

pm713 wrote:

It just feels odd when you also have him care zero about other Primarchs.

Which came with the ongoing Horus Heresy series. It does kind of conflict at the moment but like I said I don't think the Emperor will be holding back due to loving his son when Black Library get round to it.

The joys of rewriting....

pm713 wrote:

The joys of rewriting....

Yep. I'm not a fan of making the Emperor so uncaring of the Primarchs actually. Angron was more of a hindrance than a help to his Legion so why put him in power? Plus the whole 'no Psykers in the Legions' thing. What was supposed to happen if there were latent Psykers? Just hope they don't go nuclear? Why make it so that the Emperor doesn't rebuke Lorgar before razing Monarchia (unless Lorgar was just so self-centred that he didn't realise he had been)? I don't think it works with the Emperor being super logical and lacking compassion.

Some parts are cool but the Emperor himself is not getting a good representation.

This has been bandied about before; and the general consensus was that the Emperor saw most of his sons as tools, but genuinely grew to love and care for a few of them. Horus is the big one, but Magnus is often mooted as another. The level of care and affection He gave seems very lopsided; Alpharius got virtually none for example, and Angron was very clearly held in no real affection.

 Ketara wrote:
This has been bandied about before; and the general consensus was that the Emperor saw most of his sons as tools, but genuinely grew to love and care for a few of them. Horus is the big one, but Magnus is often mooted as another. The level of care and affection He gave seems very lopsided; Alpharius got virtually none for example, and Angron was very clearly held in no real affection.

Is there any real evidence in the current series that the Emperor does in fact care about Horus? Or is it all from assumption by Horus and the others like they assumed that he cared about them too?

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
This has been bandied about before; and the general consensus was that the Emperor saw most of his sons as tools, but genuinely grew to love and care for a few of them. Horus is the big one, but Magnus is often mooted as another. The level of care and affection He gave seems very lopsided; Alpharius got virtually none for example, and Angron was very clearly held in no real affection.

Is there any real evidence in the current series that the Emperor does in fact care about Horus? Or is it all from assumption by Horus and the others like they assumed that he cared about them too?

Nope, there is evidence to the contrary though, In master of mankind he makes it pretty clear he only sees the primarchs as tools, he only lets them see him as a father figure as a method of control, buts its the emperor, its possible he is only saying it that way because he is putting up a front of coldness, or just still mega pissed about the heresy.