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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Perhaps the general discussion about dice types in general should go in some other thread, unless it actually has something to do with the mechanics of this game (which we don't know much about yet).

I alerted a Mod already. Hopefully this thread gets back to actual news and rumours sometime soon.

Lately, I have lost interest in "mass battle" games that have individual casualty removal.

Instead, a "mass battle" game should focus on morale degradation of units. However, I have a feeling this "ranks and Flanks" game is more small unit skirmish scale than "mass battle".*

Either way, I am interested to see what they do with it.


*= Whatever the terms "Mass Battle" and "Small Unit Skirmish" means?

Well, they're billing this as 'mass battle', so...

...I suppose we'll find out what *they* think that means.

To me, 'Skirmish' is around 20 models per side max, give or take.

And at 20, many of those will be 'grunt' types.

"Mass Battle" should be far, far more than that, again, with the usual swings for 'elite' vs. 'horde' army types.

 Alpharius wrote:
Well, they're billing this as 'mass battle', so...

...I suppose we'll find out what *they* think that means.

To me, 'Skirmish' is around 20 models per side max, give or take.

And at 20, many of those will be 'grunt' types.

"Mass Battle" should be far, far more than that, again, with the usual swings for 'elite' vs. 'horde' army types.

So far, the comments on the facebook page hint at moving up from war bands of 30-odd models to battles with 'hundreds' of models. Personally, I'd prefer a system with a model count of 60-150ish, depending on elite vs. horde.

Otherwise, there's little news. Trolls have been hinted at as a future release, but I expect that we'll have to wait another few weeks before we get to see more of the goblins (or anything else). I understand that they just wanted to get the minis out there, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly frustrated by the lack of info about what to expect in terms of future releases.

This image popped up on the Facebook page, and the sculptor confirmed that this is one of the plastic elves. There hasn’t been any official confirmation that it’s the plastic elves, but I thought I’d post it anyhow...



I am really, really looking forward to these.

That is a very uninspiring elf. I know they are aiming for nostalgia here, but the design seems particularly bland. I hope the dinner plate on his chest turns into something visually interesting, and I hope they don't all have bob haircuts. There were many historical armies much more interestingly dressed than that elf.

Well, in the hours since I’ve posted that image, they’ve released a painted version and clarified exactly what this guy is. He’s not from the upcoming plastics, but was made as a mock-up to establish visual style.

Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.

 Alpharius wrote:
Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.

What is it that you don’t like? I love it (apart from maybe the helmet, but that’s not a big deal to me), so curious to know what people don’t like about it.

To me it looks like a Bob Naismith elf from the mid-late 1980's. I don't hate it, but it does nothing for me. I wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't crap on other people using it in their armies.

I guess... there's nothing about it that really says "elf" definitely. I mean, we take the implications of the feather, gemmed boots, spiral design on the armour and tree on the shield and assume "elf", but those are all elements that have featured in human armies over the centuries. We're just shorthanding the combination of them - with the high cheekbones - to mean "elf".

I don't think the flesh-coloured Fu Manchu moustache/cat lips does the painted version any favours.

That elf hasn't anything that says "I'm an elf" barring the smug face, as Azazelx said. The dwarf, even being "classic" and "nostalgic" is clearly a dwarf.

But, that painted goblin is pretty damm good. A very classic-orc/goblin style. I really like it.

I like that dwarf and goblin more than any of the plastics we've seen which is a bad sign for the elves given that I agree with most people that the sample is nothing special.

Hmmm, I get both of your points. I suppose it isn’t too ‘elven’, but then, what does that mean? Looking at the art of Ted Naismith from first-age books, there really isn’t much difference between elves and men anyway (and I suspect that this kind of ‘classic’ fantasy imagery was an inspiration for these elves).

It’ll be interesting to see how they differentiate their humans from the elves.

There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.

Elf is meh.

Goblin has me salivating...

Almost prefer the Mantic Elves. Do prefer the LoTR elves.

I like that Elf. Looks a lot like the illustrations from LotR and Silmarillion. Very Tolkien, without all the impractical designs that later works blinged their elves out with (not that I really mind that either though).

LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.

Not a huge fan of the elf either. Face looks a bit off for me. Not sure exactly what a face of an elf should look like but that does not look like one to me.

The first thing that I thought of looking at the elf was that he was taking a selfie for Facebook. Aside from that, it looks fairly decent.
That goblin is outstanding.

JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.

.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.

.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.

He actually reminds me of Nemo from league of extraordinary gentlemen.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.

.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.

So had you seen that figure with no accompanying text, you'd have thought it was a historical mini? Again, why pretend? Is it a bit vanilla? Yeah. Then again that's obviously the kind of look they're going for so there's only so much they could do without losing that.

The dwarves were available by the sprue at Salute 2017 on the Frostgrave section of the Osprey trade stand.
I was successfully hoodwinked into thinking there were an upcoming warband option, up to a point they are.
I saw the command group upgrades but thought that was just a 9th Age cash in, which it certainly can be.

If Osprey make a wargames system I hope it doesn't have glaring brainfarts in the rules like Frostgrave has. I am more than willing to pick up a copy and use it as another alternative to WHFB 6th, 8th and 9th Age.

From looking at the dwarf sprue the game scale will fit in just fine for mt collection.


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MattW wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.

What is it that you don’t like? I love it (apart from maybe the helmet, but that’s not a big deal to me), so curious to know what people don’t like about it.

The elf has the look of Joe Dever's art from the 80's.
The whole composition looks very Middle Earth to me. Frostgrave is c11th century tech, not far off Tolkien's own vision. Though Middle Earth is also part classical and part early industrial.

JSG wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.

.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.

So had you seen that figure with no accompanying text, you'd have thought it was a historical mini? Again, why pretend? Is it a bit vanilla? Yeah. Then again that's obviously the kind of look they're going for so there's only so much they could do without losing that.

Yeah. I did think it was a historical mini, although one sculpted to the standards of the early 90's/Frostgrave metals. If the prices are anywhere near as "decent for fantasy" as the dwarfs, I don't see why anyone wouldn't just buy a bunch of Perry or Gripping Beast minis for half the cost per mini and just paint them up like Fingolfin or Glorfindel or Finwhatever for equally efficacious results. If the bar for Tolkien verisimilitude is "it has to look like a terrible painting from one of those old calendars my grandma bought at a garage sale because it has the dragon" then mission easily accomplished.

 Azazelx wrote:
To me it looks like a Bob Naismith elf from the mid-late 1980's. I don't hate it, but it does nothing for me. I wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't crap on other people using it in their armies.

I guess... there's nothing about it that really says "elf" definitely. I mean, we take the implications of the feather, gemmed boots, spiral design on the armour and tree on the shield and assume "elf", but those are all elements that have featured in human armies over the centuries. We're just shorthanding the combination of them - with the high cheekbones - to mean "elf".

I don't think the flesh-coloured Fu Manchu moustache/cat lips does the painted version any favours.

I don't always agree with Azazelx, but that is some on point commentary, 100% agree

There's nothing wrong with the elf, it's just very bland and uninspiring. I kinda dig the 80's throwback designs, especially for the dwarves, but there's too many other elf lines out there that I like more, I don't see myself picking up any of these even if I did get into the game, I'd use actual LotR or GW elves as standins

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.

Whose kickstarter is this? I'd like to keep an eye out for it.

I think the elf is OK. Nothing awesome, but not bad.

But yea, the goblin/orc is great!

 pancakeonions wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.

Whose kickstarter is this? I'd like to keep an eye out for it.

I think the elf is OK. Nothing awesome, but not bad.

But yea, the goblin/orc is great!

I think he’s talking about the Last Sword one. They’re much more Peter Jackson-style, and in a kind of restic rather than HIPS.

Personally speaking, all three races look perfect to me. Just the kind of down to earth, old school fantasy I have been looking for. I can see me making up some Middle Earth warbands for Dragon Rampant with these alongside historical miniatures for Gondor and Rohan. Hopefully they will have enough "heft" so they don't look out of place alongside Gripping Beast and Fireforge.

While the elf isn't very "elfy", he is a great fit with the dwarves and ork in terms of overall style.