What are you excited for in Chapter Approved?

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**Orock**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Orock wrote:
You left out an option.

"paying GW more money to fix my codex for what is and should be a free faq".

There is more to Chapter Approved than fixing your codex, Orock.

Yeah, filler to justify cost. I already knew that.

**ph34r**

I am excited for GW to nerf the points cost on my Elysians plasma guns.

I am also excited for GW to completely forget about buffing Adeptus Mechanicus again and leave them with terrible Dogmas, Warlord Traits, Relics, and EverythingElse.

**Niiru**

ph34r wrote:
I am excited for GW to nerf the points cost on my Elysians plasma guns.

I am also excited for GW to completely forget about buffing Adeptus Mechanicus again and leave them with terrible Dogmas, Warlord Traits, Relics, and EverythingElse.

Yeh, I've read your repeated attempts on the Admech tactica to say that everything in the Admech codex is awful. I mean, it's all universally better than most of the things that all the Xenos armies get, plus you get access to IG units, stratagems and gear (which are by far the best options in the entire game) but sure, Admech are terrible....

Plus you have an entire forgeworld update coming, which will add even more rules and units to your army. Something that the multiple Xenos armies haven't had access to in... years? Ever?

You are literally complaining because you get more than most people, but not quite as much as Imperial Guard, and so that makes things so much worse for you. Somehow.

**ph34r**

Niiru wrote:
it's all universally better than most of the things that all the Xenos armies get, plus you get access to IG units, stratagems and gear (which are by far the best options in the entire game) but sure, Admech are terrible....

I think you have highlighted my point excellently, AdMech don't suck.... because we have Imperial Guard

Niiru wrote:
better than most of the things that all the Xenos armies get

Considering Xenos have Literally Zero Codexes, uh, I think you've cracked the code

**Niiru**

ph34r wrote:
Niiru wrote:
it's all universally better than most of the things that all the Xenos armies get, plus you get access to IG units, stratagems and gear (which are by far the best options in the entire game) but sure, Admech are terrible....

I think you have highlighted my point excellently, AdMech don't suck.... because we have Imperial Guard

Niiru wrote:
better than most of the things that all the Xenos armies get
Considering Xenos have Literally Zero Codexes, uh, I think you've cracked the code

Nice sarcasm, except that you'd only be correct in your sarcastic response if the Tyranid and Eldar release next month comes with about 20 new or updated models lines. Unfortunately there seems to be no updated models or kits, or new releases, for either army.

So like I said, you already have better things than most of what the Xenos have, or will get.

Unless GW surprise us with a slew of new models for the Xenos in the next few months. If so, I'll be the first to apologise and admit I was wrong.

**ph34r**

Xenos can't get buffed without getting new models?

That seems wrong to me.

The whole point of a codex is to buff the army without giving them new models.

I would hatefully say I hope your xenos get the same Dogmas as Mechanicus, but I'm not a monster.

**Niiru**

ph34r wrote:
Xenos can't get buffed without getting new models?

That seems wrong to me.

The whole point of a codex is to buff the army without giving them new models.

I would hatefully say I hope your xenos get the same Dogmas as Mechanicus, but I'm not a monster.

Oh, I think I've confused a couple points, sorry. Part of what I was saying was that Admech have access to a wide variety of good models (both in Admech and from the Imperium). I still count at least 50% of this hobby as the models, rather than just the rules. A lot of the Xenos models haven't been updated since the 90's.

I actually expect Eldar to get some of the same dogmas as Mechanicus. Alaitoc will probably get the same trait as Stygies, which is the same trait as Alpha Legion, and is generally seen as being a really good trait. Alpha Legion is among the best CSM choice right now, and the only reason Stygies isn't an auto-take is because Cawl is such a huge buff. Possible similar to why the Ravenguard trait isn't an auto-take (I think that's also -1 to hit), because if you take it you can't take full advantage of Rowboat.

Alaitoc players would love to have the Stygies trait. It would make their lists significantly better. And you throw it away as some kind of insult? Imperium players are so spoilt.

Getting an armywide 6+ FNP also seems good, particularly for footdar. I can't remember any of the others offhand... think there was an assault one that re-rolled hits or wounds in melee, also very good for an assault based army, though I doubt Eldar would get that.

Not sure why you think your dogmas should be better, they're on par with other armies, and you get Canticles which are another buff on top of it. They're only lacking when compared to Imperial Guard, but -everything- is awful compared to IG right now.

**ph34r**

Niiru wrote:
Oh, I think I've confused a couple points, sorry. Part of what I was saying was that Admech have access to a wide variety of good models (both in Admech and from the Imperium). I still count at least 50% of this hobby as the models, rather than just the rules. A lot of the Xenos models haven't been updated since the 90's.

Oh I agree with you there 100%. Mechanicus have awesome models and I am super happy that they exist as a faction at all now.

Alaitoc players would love to have the Stygies trait. It would make their lists significantly better. And you throw it away as some kind of insult? Imperium players are so spoilt.

Sorry, the Stygies VIII trait is indeed awesome. Space Marines got it, Chaos Marines got it, Imperial Guard got it, Mechanicus got it, and I would bet anything that Alaitoc gets exactly that.

I'm complaining about all the other ones. Stygies VIII is great. The other ones might as well not exist. I honestly hope Eldar get way way better Craftworld Traits than the AdMech dogmas:

6+ FNP against morale and the last wound, like Iron Hands but worse.
Metalica is advance and fire assault and rapid fire advance as assault. Whatever.
Then there's ignore AP -1. Not much AP -1 exists in the game.
Overwatch on a 5+. Again pretty horrible in my opinion.
Re-roll wound rolls of 1 is pretty nice if the army is good in assault at all.

**Niiru**

ph34r wrote:
Niiru wrote:
Oh, I think I've confused a couple points, sorry. Part of what I was saying was that Admech have access to a wide variety of good models (both in Admech and from the Imperium). I still count at least 50% of this hobby as the models, rather than just the rules. A lot of the Xenos models haven't been updated since the 90's.
Oh I agree with you there 100%. Mechanicus have awesome models and I am super happy that they exist as a faction at all now.

Alaitoc players would love to have the Stygies trait. It would make their lists significantly better. And you throw it away as some kind of insult? Imperium players are so spoilt.
Sorry, the Stygies VIII trait is indeed awesome. Space Marines got it, Chaos Marines got it, Imperial Guard got it, Mechanicus got it, and I would bet anything that Alaitoc gets exactly that.

I'm complaining about all the other ones. Stygies VIII is great. The other ones might as well not exist. I honestly hope Eldar get way way better Craftworld Traits than the AdMech dogmas:

6+ FNP against morale and the last wound, like Iron Hands but worse.
Metalica is advance and fire assault and rapid fire advance as assault. Whatever.
Then there's ignore AP -1. Not much AP -1 exists in the game.
Overwatch on a 5+. Again pretty horrible in my opinion.
Re-roll wound rolls of 1 is pretty nice if the army is good in assault at all.

I'd say the 6+ FNP is pretty good, but maybe thats just because as an Eldar and Ork player I am used to models being predominately 1 wound and/or poor leadership, and so the "last wound" and morale parts actually would come up more often than not. I admit Admech would get less use of it, unless you run a lot of Vanguard.

Metalica would be useless for eldar and orks... don't think either of them really have any rapid fire weapons. Didn't even think Admech did either!

Agreed on the AP-1. Overwatch... it does mean twice as many hits from overwatch, so could be good against a deepstrike/assault army. Situational. Same with the re-rolls of 1, situationally very good if you run an assault army.

The Admech dogmas aren't all great, but there's 2 or 3 decent choices (the mars one with Cawl is universally amazing, obviously) so it could be worse. The worry is that with the disdain GW has shown towards the Xenos for the last couple of years, is that we would be -lucky- to get something similar to the Admech codex. I worry that it will be much, much worse.

Edit: To make this a little more on topic, I hope that Chapter Approved makes some sweeping changes to all the armies that are still using their Index, in order to bring them a bit closer to the level of Codex released armies.

**ph34r**

I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

**Lance845**

ph34r wrote:
I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

Prepare for disappointment.

I expect nobody will get artifacts, doctrines, or stratgems in chapter approved. Otherwise why would you bother buying the codex?

**ph34r**

Points adjustments could fix basically everything in my opinion.

**Tibs Ironblood**

ph34r wrote:
Points adjustments could fix basically everything in my opinion.

I agree. In a point based balancing system points are literally everything in regards to balance.

**Torga_DW**

ph34r wrote:
I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

Which one? Marines or guard?

**Niiru**

Torga_DW wrote:
ph34r wrote:
I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

Which one? Marines or guard?

First one, then t'other.

**NickMcMahon**

Less soup more balance.

**ph34r**

Torga_DW wrote:
ph34r wrote:
I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

Which one? Marines or guard?

Fair point, though I am not 100% convinced that Guard are far and away better than Guilliman and Friends, but maybe that is describing Soup?

**Torga_DW**

ph34r wrote:
Torga_DW wrote:
ph34r wrote:
I hope Chapter Approved buffs all the armies that don't have Codexes up to the power level of Marines/Guard!

Which one? Marines or guard?
Fair point, though I am not 100% convinced that Guard are far and away better than Guilliman and Friends, but maybe that is describing Soup?

Partially soup, but more bobby g imo. The thing is, not every marine is an ultramarine, and they're the only ones that have a primarch. I shudder to think what will happen to the game when more are released. Chapter tactics/strategems/etc have changed things up a bit, but the basic issues with the codex remain. Whereas IG can perform well without big bobby making an appearance. I'm glad they have more internal balance now, but the external balance so far isn't good.

**alextroy**

I'm waiting for the Army of Character's nerf, which can be fixed in one sentence:

A Character can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if there is a non-Character unit closer to the model that is shooting.

**cuda1179**

alextroy wrote:
I'm waiting for the Army of Character's nerf, which can be fixed in one sentence:

A Character can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if there is a non-Character unit closer to the model that is shooting.

This actually makes some sense. I'd love to see it. Hiding characters behind a couple blob squads is still an issue, but at least that is fluffy.

**Kitane**

I hope GW adds a vertical distance component to the 1" distance used for close combat measurements.

A unit coherency is already 2" horizontally and 6" vertically.

Adding a 3" vertical component to the close combat (making it 1" horizontally and 3" vertically) would go a long way to improve the fluidity of the close combat in ruins and similar terrain, and it would cut most of the reliance on Wobbly Model Syndrome.

**Jaxler**

Trollbert wrote:
Rework of the maelstrom missions. At least 75% of my maelstrom games are really unpleasant.
About 50% of my games end with one player getting tabled,
and in half of the games that are played till the end, the maelstrom point score and the kill point score are completly decoupled.
Player A has like 5% of his army or even only 1 model left and scored 10+ maelstrom points while Player B has 30% of his army and ~5 maelstrom points because he drew his mission cards unluckily.
If Maelstrom matters, it is so random you could just roll a die to determine who wins and play a kill point game instead.

It's genuinely unfun when your opponent gets the mission where he has to hold the marker that is closest to his 150 conscripts like 5+ times per game, while you draw it as well and can't get the conscripts off of it in 1 turn. A lot of the objectives are incredibly hard to achieve when your opponent gets the chance to react to the cards you have. One bad turn where you can't score any points means a huge disadvantage because the number of missions you may generate is limited.

Without house rules, the system is basically unplayable. Your opponent has no X or you already killed the only unit that can score you the mission you just drew? Too bad you can only discard 1 card per turn AFTER your turn so you have to keep that mission you can fulfill.

I already used those NOVA missions or whatever they're called and they are SO much better designed than the maelstrom missions.

Now, what I would like GW to do is something a bit more restricting with respect to list building: NOVA basically is 'bring what you want and choose the objectives that fit the list best', Maelstrom should be like 'if you bring a static list/gunline, you must table your opponent or you lose against a non-static list, if both you and your opponent bring I non-static list the one who moves smarter wins'.

I didn't think about how such a system could look, might do that some day because I know GW won't make something like this (in a balanced way). Might do some brain storming soon.

Off topic: Why does the forum say that I am posting from Romania when I am not?

What tends to happen is one player plays the mission knowing that they’ll have more points and less troops by the end. My deep strike heavy grey Knights and scions list tends to take huge casualties because when the card says d3 points for holding 3 objectives, you best bet I’ll throw away units for those d3 points because I can grab it easy even if I’m left with my pants down in front of the tank parking lot.

If one player has no army left, but more points, then they played the mission well. TBH though, I will agree that mealstorm should have a victory point given to the player with more of their army’s points left on the board final turn, and should have less objectives for securing numbered markers. The focus on most the deck being “hold this point” is rather stupid. I’d rather more slay the warlords and stuff about holding multiple markers, and stuff about killing and what have you.

**Karthicus**

Jaxler wrote:

What tends to happen is one player plays the mission knowing that they’ll have more points and less troops by the end. My deep strike heavy grey Knights and scions list tends to take huge casualties because when the card says d3 points for holding 3 objectives, you best bet I’ll throw away units for those d3 points because I can grab it easy even if I’m left with my pants down in front of the tank parking lot.

Busted out laughing on this one..... nice line.

**Mr Morden**

Hoping for some additional rules and benefits for those armies not blessed with a power up via a Codex.

Oh and of course the preview pics of the new Sisters minis.

**Luthon1234**

Kinda hoping for some updates for armies without codexes as they need them badly, I feel like its a complete struggle for some indexes to even compete against codexes. I would also hope they would look at the psychic phase, I think most powers need to go up in difficulty. Other than that they already said they were gonna fix the deployment issue so can't really expect more.

**clownshoes**

I want to see smite spam get nerfed.

But it would be nice to open up acess to duplicate psychic abilities. So a ramp up the cost per cast of any psychic power. ie, smite, 5 first successful cast, 6 second, ect.

Or increase the possibility of a perils for using a psychic power more than once a turn.

**Wolf_in_Human_Shape**

Orock wrote:
You left out an option.

"paying GW more money to fix my codex for what is and should be a free faq".

I realize this is sort of an inflammatory comment, but I'm struggling to see things differently. Feels like that's exactly what I'd be doing. So far, we've had adjustments and clarifications in the form of FAQs and errata. I've already bought 2 GW codices and 2 FW indices. I think I'm done buying books for the rest of this edition, unless they come out with World Eaters.