Will simply reducing pointsfor terminators make then viable again?

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**Arachnofiend**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Pretty sure Rubric Marines have a rule like that. And then there's Lucius for AdMech.

Rubrics (and Scarab Occult Terminators) add 1 to their saving throws when attacked by anything with a damage profile of 1. So Rubrics have a 3+ save against heavy bolters but a 4+ save against autocannons.

**JorpA**

bananathug wrote:
I feel like they lack a solid offensive punch and are not really survivable.

If termie storm bolters had a -1 AP I feel they would be much more useful.

The idea of 2x heavy weapons in a squad of 5 would be great, opening up the heavy weapon options would go a long way to make them viable (deep striking grav cannons please).

Their guns seem to be good against hordes and their melee seems suited to elites. They get killed equally well by either.

Make their invuln a 4++, I'd love for assault termies to have some sort of unique CCW (+1s, -2 AP, 2d lightning claws)

T5 would really help against volume of fire from s3-4 weapons.

They couldn't have all of these options but something needs to be done because I never see them at my fairly competitive local meta. They have no role that a different unit doesn't do better for cheaper.

Anti-hord loadout. ap -1 storm bolters and -1 ap chainswords (+1 attack, get rid of power fist)
Heavy loadout, 2x heavy weapons per 5, open up heavy weapon options (keep power fists?)
Assault termies: +1s, ap-2, 2d lightning claws (4++ invuln)
T5

What about cataprachti armor. There should then be these same buffs for them too. Making for example DG blightlord terminators s5 and t6 with 2+/3+ save.

**JNAProductions**

JorpA wrote:
bananathug wrote:
I feel like they lack a solid offensive punch and are not really survivable.

If termie storm bolters had a -1 AP I feel they would be much more useful.

The idea of 2x heavy weapons in a squad of 5 would be great, opening up the heavy weapon options would go a long way to make them viable (deep striking grav cannons please).

Their guns seem to be good against hordes and their melee seems suited to elites. They get killed equally well by either.

Make their invuln a 4++, I'd love for assault termies to have some sort of unique CCW (+1s, -2 AP, 2d lightning claws)

T5 would really help against volume of fire from s3-4 weapons.

They couldn't have all of these options but something needs to be done because I never see them at my fairly competitive local meta. They have no role that a different unit doesn't do better for cheaper.

Anti-hord loadout. ap -1 storm bolters and -1 ap chainswords (+1 attack, get rid of power fist)
Heavy loadout, 2x heavy weapons per 5, open up heavy weapon options (keep power fists?)
Assault termies: +1s, ap-2, 2d lightning claws (4++ invuln)
T5

What about cataprachti armor. There should then be these same buffs for them too. Making for example DG blightlord terminators s5 and t6 with 2+/3+ save.

And then what about Storm Shield Termis, like Deathwing Knights?

**JorpA**

JNAProductions wrote:
JorpA wrote:
bananathug wrote:
I feel like they lack a solid offensive punch and are not really survivable.

If termie storm bolters had a -1 AP I feel they would be much more useful.

The idea of 2x heavy weapons in a squad of 5 would be great, opening up the heavy weapon options would go a long way to make them viable (deep striking grav cannons please).

Their guns seem to be good against hordes and their melee seems suited to elites. They get killed equally well by either.

Make their invuln a 4++, I'd love for assault termies to have some sort of unique CCW (+1s, -2 AP, 2d lightning claws)

T5 would really help against volume of fire from s3-4 weapons.

They couldn't have all of these options but something needs to be done because I never see them at my fairly competitive local meta. They have no role that a different unit doesn't do better for cheaper.

Anti-hord loadout. ap -1 storm bolters and -1 ap chainswords (+1 attack, get rid of power fist)
Heavy loadout, 2x heavy weapons per 5, open up heavy weapon options (keep power fists?)
Assault termies: +1s, ap-2, 2d lightning claws (4++ invuln)
T5

What about cataprachti armor. There should then be these same buffs for them too. Making for example DG blightlord terminators s5 and t6 with 2+/3+ save.

And then what about Storm Shield Termis, like Deathwing Knights?

True that all tought stormshield would still be improvement at Current status ofc not as great improvement as atm.

**pelicaniforce**

Haravikk wrote:
pelicaniforce wrote:
To increase that strategy element instead of decreasing it, I think scrub units like guardsmen should get a penalty when shooting at veteran units like terminators, like -1 to hit if a cultist or guardsman is shooting a terminator or exarch.

Not sure how I feel about a to-Hit penalty for shooting at elites, that just seems weird to me. But in one of the 7th edition Terminator discussions I floated something similar, namely a -1 to-Hit penalty against units

Well, it's for veterans, not based on force org. It's for the ubiquitous champion models, where there are models that have completely identical stats but +1 attack and +1 leadership. The classic is chaos chosen, people ask what's the point in taking them when chaos havocs take the exact same guns and come out cheaper.

So the idea is if you are shooting at a model that is on a 40mm base or smaller, and it has more attacks than the shooting model, then you should take the penalty. And actually to account for mixed units like normal one attack models with an exarch or vet sarge it should be a bonus 5+ invulnerable after the normal save, but it's shorter to write as a -1 to hit.

Heavy armor is given to terminator squads because the people themselves are so elite, and more of their abilities should come from their normal stat line than their wargear than currently do.

**Shas'O'Ceris**

How about giving termies -1 on damage taken, minimum 1? Is present in the game, but not so much for their role or faction. This would make plasma and knight weapons much less effective but still reasonable counters at taking them down. d3D weapons will have a chance that 2D doesn't, giving them a better niche.