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 Xenomancers wrote:
Not saying it's a bad unit - Compared to the index roughriders they were outlandishly OP - which is pretty par for the course for forge world. However - compared to the units AM have access to - they are pretty much superfluous or exchangeable with a large variety of units (which is actually kind of like saying it's a great unit).

Find me another unit that is 2W and gets the ability to potentially shrug off S4 or lower hits while also being immune to Morale tests for shooting casualties.

I'll wait.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Not saying it's a bad unit - Compared to the index roughriders they were outlandishly OP - which is pretty par for the course for forge world. However - compared to the units AM have access to - they are pretty much superfluous or exchangeable with a large variety of units (which is actually kind of like saying it's a great unit).

Find me another unit that is 2W and gets the ability to potentially shrug off S4 or lower hits while also being immune to Morale tests for shooting casualties.

I'll wait.

Or don't, and discuss that offtopic conversation about a IG tournament list in another thread that isn't about Tau?

 Galas wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Not saying it's a bad unit - Compared to the index roughriders they were outlandishly OP - which is pretty par for the course for forge world. However - compared to the units AM have access to - they are pretty much superfluous or exchangeable with a large variety of units (which is actually kind of like saying it's a great unit).

Find me another unit that is 2W and gets the ability to potentially shrug off S4 or lower hits while also being immune to Morale tests for shooting casualties.

I'll wait.

Or don't, and discuss that offtopic conversation about a IG tournament list in another thread that isn't about Tau?

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Xenomancers seems to make it his life goal to derail every thread into xenos-bashing, "Everyone is OP but me" tripe that's just been beat into the ground. I really would like a mod to address this, but suspect that it's not SUPER outside of the bounds.

Are....are we seriously considering DKoK Death Riders to be OP? It's a T4 4+sv unit of guardsmen who are only conditionally useful in CC with no relevant shooting, designed to be used in an army of guardsmen that cost 25% more than normal and cant take heavy weapons, have no stratagems, etc.

Simply being better than index RR's isn't a measure of OPness (especially considering theyve been garbage since...almost literally forever), and certainly isnt representative of FW being overpowered as a general rule.

This is the end of the off topic discussion for me but I feel I have to retort here. You are miss understanding me. I am actually saying that the rough riders were a superfluous and likely less optimal choice for a particular list in question. The general rule for almost everything forge world however - is it's probably better than what is in your codex (or in this case index).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Not saying it's a bad unit - Compared to the index roughriders they were outlandishly OP - which is pretty par for the course for forge world. However - compared to the units AM have access to - they are pretty much superfluous or exchangeable with a large variety of units (which is actually kind of like saying it's a great unit).

Find me another unit that is 2W and gets the ability to potentially shrug off S4 or lower hits while also being immune to Morale tests for shooting casualties.

I'll wait.

Or don't, and discuss that offtopic conversation about a IG tournament list in another thread that isn't about Tau?

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Xenomancers seems to make it his life goal to derail every thread into xenos-bashing, "Everyone is OP but me" tripe that's just been beat into the ground. I really would like a mod to address this, but suspect that it's not SUPER outside of the bounds.

Hum in this thread you can see me defending tau as not being that bad and I have a pretty substantial tau army - over 6000 points if you put it all together at once. Tau just need some minor tweaks to be good. Better marker lights (they should probably auto hit - kind of like Am orders are auto cast) and some cost reductions on units weapons like crisis suits and broadsides. Riptide is clearly too weak and needs a price cut. Commanders buff just needs to be always on and have no movement restrictions. That alone would make tau close to top tier with stratagems and a army trait. Like if you want to be a mod...I'd probably refrain from personal attacks...which is what you are doing. I'm over here discussing Warhammer 40k in the general discussion sub-form. I am entitled to an opinion as is everyone. I think tau are one of the stronger remaining indexes. Obviously and index is going to underperform against a codex. Unless of course - it is space marines. Tau actually match up pretty go with space marines even though they have a codex.

Taking an Index army to a tournament and losing to all Codex lists. What did you expect? All of the index armies are under powered. GW is releasing codexes at a steady rate. Be patient sheesh. Why is this even a thread? Every index player panicking like its the end of the world. Your codex will come.

 thekerrick wrote:
Taking an Index army to a tournament and losing to all Codex lists. What did you expect? All of the index armies are under powered. GW is releasing codexes at a steady rate. Be patient sheesh. Why is this even a thread? Every index player panicking like its the end of the world. Your codex will come.

It's mostly to figure out why people would say that T'au are OP. Not so much complain about the strength of his army.

Well we have a woman who plays T'au at our gaming club, I think she has only lost a handful of times in 8th so far and even then not by much.

She rarely even runs the big suits and still gives everyone a good thrashing, so from what I've seen so far, are you sure you were playing to your best ability?

 chimeara wrote:

 thekerrick wrote:
Taking an Index army to a tournament and losing to all Codex lists. What did you expect? All of the index armies are under powered. GW is releasing codexes at a steady rate. Be patient sheesh. Why is this even a thread? Every index player panicking like its the end of the world. Your codex will come.

It's mostly to figure out why people would say that T'au are OP. Not so much complain about the strength of his army.

I think its the general consuess of this thread that tau are strong but not OP. They had a brief limelight when it was all index armies (mainly because Eldar came out of the gate so badly) along with AM and SM, but they and the other index armies have fallen well below the power curve after the first index drop. I think you've been suffering from player 'nerf-fear', a common form of confirmation bias. It's when you really love your faction and are so afraid it'll be nerfed that you remember the occasional calls for nerfs but not the casual comments that a faction is 'ok' or 'meh'.

Tau have some nice stuff, but I don't think anyone is expecting them to win out easily against an ultramrine-gulliman list or a Magnus/Mortatrion list.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 chimeara wrote:

 thekerrick wrote:
Taking an Index army to a tournament and losing to all Codex lists. What did you expect? All of the index armies are under powered. GW is releasing codexes at a steady rate. Be patient sheesh. Why is this even a thread? Every index player panicking like its the end of the world. Your codex will come.

It's mostly to figure out why people would say that T'au are OP. Not so much complain about the strength of his army.

I think its the general consuess of this thread that tau are strong but not OP. They had a brief limelight when it was all index armies (mainly because Eldar came out of the gate so badly) along with AM and SM, but they and the other index armies have fallen well below the power curve after the first index drop. I think you've been suffering from player 'nerf-fear', a common form of confirmation bias. It's when you really love your faction and are so afraid it'll be nerfed that you remember the occasional calls for nerfs but not the casual comments that a faction is 'ok' or 'meh'.

Tau have some nice stuff, but I don't think anyone is expecting them to win out easily against an ultramrine-gulliman list or a Magnus/Mortatrion list.

When exactly were Tau ever in the limelight in 8th edition? And where are they threads or discussions proving this? Because everything I have seen online and in person in 8th is that Tau are decidedly not in a good position in 8th and are among the bottom tiers of armies. Certainly Commanders and Gun Drones are good, but are also manageable once you figure them out (If your tournament list can't kill a horde of T4, 4+ save, Ld 6 models that can only shoot the closest unit to them, and T5, 3+, 6W HQs, your list was gonna lose the tournament anyway). Unless you will claim that Tyranids were among the top codices in 7th due to Flyrants, you can't claim that Tau are good in 8th because of Commanders and Drones.

I remember that... some Tau Commander Spam List won a tournament... like... at the first months of 8th? But after that, I haven't seen a Tau list in any TOP 10 of any medium-big tournament.

KalexKurosaki wrote:
Well we have a woman who plays T'au at our gaming club, I think she has only lost a handful of times in 8th so far and even then not by much.

She rarely even runs the big suits and still gives everyone a good thrashing, so from what I've seen so far, are you sure you were playing to your best ability?

I have a theory that if Gamgee played against Master of Ordnance it would be the only time in 40k history both sides lost.