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They covered the Yellow Turban DLC back in September.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/the-yellow-turban-rebellion-a-potted-history

Basically, they acknowledge that the originators of the rebellion, the Zhang brothers, are dead at this point, but are basically carrying on with the idea that resistance went on in various places for a couple decades.

Functionally, you've got three warlords to choose from (curious if these count as part of the 11 in the current blog), and they're maybe historical? One, Gong Du, is mentioned as helping in a rebellion against Sun Jian.

Basically each of the three represents a different 'Taoist virtue' and gets different benefits.

He Yi is People domain, Compassion virtue, and a Healer. So he gets a Healer's Lodge building and berserkers. >.>

Gong Du is a Veteran (and bandit), Land Domain, Frugality Virtue, can build Hidden forts and can steal more stuff post battle. >.>

Huang Shao is a Scholar, Heaven domain, Humility virtue, Gardens building (public order buff?) and fields 'religious fanatics, martial artists and scholars.'

Unit roster for the faction as whole is 'unique and thematic and diverse,' which seems tricky to pull off. Peasant masses and basic yellow turban units are available to all three, but specialists and elite units depend on the leader.

Sounds really cool, shame it is day 1 dlc and not included with the bloomin game then!

The next warlord being previewed is Cao Cao.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-cao-cao?fbclid=IwAR2pMXpl3ZSsCe1fRTC_mW3TkXB0eJABFo8FhZ1Ymo4DxVmpWkWFe34FIX4

Cao Cao is arguably the most important warlord of the early Three Kingdoms era, and likely would have succeeded in uniting the land under his control if it hadn't been for the disastrous Battle of Chibi (aka Red Cliffs). His play style will revolve around manipulating diplomatic perceptions, and he can even trigger a war between two other factions.

While it's not certain, the information about his starting position suggests that he might start the game at an earlier time than Sun Jian. It mentions that Dong Zhuo has branded him an enemy of the state, and is sending "henchmen" after him. This suggests that Dong Zhuo is still in Luoyang, while Sun Jian's start is after Dong Zhuo leaves the capitol (since Sun Jian has recovered the Imperial Seal, and is on his way home). There is a possibility that the start dates are the same. Dong Zhuo wasn't killed until after he relocated west to Chang'an. But post-relocation, Dong Zhuo would hardly be singling out Cao Cao as a problem since there were several other warlords (including Sun Jian) who had actively taken up arms against him.

Cao Cao's first dilemma will revolve around the murder of his father, Cao Song, by soldiers of Tao Qian. Tao Qian has denied that that the soldiers did so under his orders, and Cao Cao must decide whether to immediately attack Tao Qian in revenge, or delay his revenge until he's built up his power somewhat.

Historically, historians are unsure whether Tao Qian was responsible for the death of Cao Song. His soldiers definitely committed the murder, but accounts differ as to whether he ordered it, or was caught up in a number of his troops going rogue out of greed (Cao Song was supposedly traveling with a lot of wealth at the time of his death). Regardless of Tao Qian's exact level of involvement, Cao Cao decided to launch an invasion of Tao Qian's home, Xu Province, in revenge. Tao Qian sent out a request for help against Cao Cao's forces, and Liu Bei responded. Despite aid from Liu Bei, Tao Qian was still losing to Cao Cao until Cao Cao was suddenly forced to recall his troops back to his home territory of Yan Province in order to respond to treason among some of his subordinates, who had invited Lu Bu to invade. When Tao Qian died not long afterwards, the governorship of the province ended up passing to Liu Bei instead of Tao Qian's sons.

 Kroem wrote:
Sounds really cool, shame it is day 1 dlc and not included with the bloomin game then!

Eh. I find this an overstated thing. Functionally it is included with the game. You get it free for the first week after the release date, so plenty of time for reviews if you find those worth waiting for, and CA gives preview copies to youtubers to mess around with at least a week (sometimes up to 2) in advance, so you can see gameplay and mechanics without problems being covered up before the game even comes out.

With three weeks of lots of firsthand information, people can decide to buy or not. Or ignore the title or wait for a sale (which definitely happens with CA titles)

Hmmm
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-october-2018

So, apparently they're overhauling diplomacy for this one (hopefully making it more nuanced), and in battle, cav and infantry are supposed to move and react better (no more universal simultaneous pivot)

They're also feature locked (which is good for a March release) and on bugs and balancing.

Voss wrote:
Hmmm
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-october-2018

So, apparently they're overhauling diplomacy for this one (hopefully making it more nuanced), and in battle, cav and infantry are supposed to move and react better (no more universal simultaneous pivot)

They're also feature locked (which is good for a March release) and on bugs and balancing.

At the very least, I suspect that getting Cao Cao's ability to the point where it wasn't either largely useless or hopelessly broken would require that the diplomacy system gets an overhaul.

The link also mentions that they're building a character relationship system. Presumably this means that friendships and hatreds between individual characters will be tracked behind the scenes, and this will have an effect on your interactions with them within the game.

Yeah, I left that out because they've mentioned it previously in more specific terms. I'm still not sure how it works, entirely, but they've mentioned it having effects on recruitment or even duels.

Truthfully I figured Cao Cao's ability would work like high elf influence, where you can just force positive or negative modifiers on others.

And here's the leader of the last of the Three Kingdoms, Liu Bei -

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-liu-bei?fbclid=IwAR20BC6uqi1ABhcRPhXT3PmejGSHGvYlORuAuYRYnQp4SNm5Iq4PNn2-9sY


Liu Bei's focus is on personal bonds with his followers. He starts with two very close followers - his sworn oath brothers Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. If Liu Bei and his oath brothers are in the same battle, then the player will gain bonuses. The game will apparently encourage Liu Bei to maintain close relationships with all of his followers, and this will boost his unity gain, his ascent through the faction ranks, and improve his government capabilities. Because he's popular with the people, his militia units don't require any upkeep (which is also no doubt tied to the fact that he was frequently homeless until he finally secured Jing province following the Battle of Chibi; this means that he can maintain an army even when he doesn't have any income). And finally, due to his (tenuous) claim to descent from the ruling Han Dynasty, he can automatically take control of provinces owned by the Han faction for a small cost in unity.

Unlike the other warlords, Liu Bei starts out with just a single army in Dong Province, and no territory of his own. He's surrounded by Yellow Turban rebels, and will need to get past them to break out into the greater China. His initial dilemma will be the opposite side of Cao Cao's initial dilemma. As mentioned in the Cao Cao entry, Cao Cao's father, Cao Song, was murdered by soldiers belonging to Tao Qian. Tao Qian claimed that the soldiers had gone rogue, but Cao Cao held the old man responsible for his father's death, and invaded Tao Qian's province. Liu Bei's initial dilemma will be whether to respond to Cao Cao's invasion by supporting Tao Qian, or sitting it out. Supporting Tao Qian will turn Cao Cao into a powerful enemy, and he'll need to resist a potentially difficult invasion (historically, the only reason Cao Cao lost was because he was forced to return home when Lu Bu invaded his home province during Cao Cao's absence). If Liu Bei supports Tao Qian, it will prove Liu Bei's worth and virtue, and he'll be in a good position to inherit the province when Tao Qian dies (Tao Qian was already an old man; historically, when he died he turned the province over to Liu Bei, who then held it for a short time before losing it to Lu Bu).



Warlords confirmed so far -

Sun Jian
Cao Cao
Liu Bei


And just for fun, other possible playable warlords -

Yuan Shao (a powerful member of the nobility who led the anti-Dong Zhuo coalition, and early on possibly the most powerful contender for eventual control)
Yuan Shu (either a cousin or half-brother of Shao, who quickly turned into a rival after Dong Zhuo retreated from Luoyang and the Emperor's rule evaporated; historically, Shu was given the Imperial Seal by the Sun family in exchange for troops, and he made the mistake of using his possession of it to declare himself Emperor, which turned him into a target for EVERYONE)
Lu Bu (if the mightiest warrior of the era isn't a playable warlord, then something's wrong...)
Dong Zhuo (because, why not? He's lost Luoyang at this point, and was killed two years later by Lu Bu, but maybe he can regain power? The entry for Cao Cao explicitly mentions that he's still alive at the start of the game.)


And finally, almost certainly won't be a warlord, but he could be a fun dark horse candidate anyway -

Emperor Xian - Dong Zhuo died in 192. Historically, his successors refused to allow the Emperor to leave Chang'an until 195. They almost immediately changed their minds, and chased Xian to the ruins of Luoyang, where the Emperor met Cao Cao and accepted his protection. But what if Emperor had been able to successfully rally troops and militia to his side, and beat back his pursuers? This would have put him in the position where he could have rejected Cao Cao's "protection", and worked to reunite China under the renewed rule of the Han Dynasty. Historically, there was no chance of it happening (even if Xian had managed to somehow get his freedom, he'd been under the thumb of others for his entire life, and likely would have had difficulties actually running a government), but it could be a fun "what if?"

I would be shocked if Lu Bu wasn't playable in some form.

Others who were important to the period but aren't as well known because they weren't central characters in Romance of the Three Kingdoms are Kong Rong, Liu Yan, Shi Xie, Gongsun Zan, and Ma Teng.

The Gongsun family is notable in particular as the only Warlords who managed to endure into the Three Kingdom's era. Cao Wei only conquered them a few years before finally conquering Han Shu.

 LordofHats wrote:
I would be shocked if Lu Bu wasn't playable in some form.

Others who were important to the period but aren't as well known because they weren't central characters in Romance of the Three Kingdoms are Kong Rong, Liu Yan, Shi Xie, Gongsun Zan, and Ma Teng.

The Gongsun family is notable in particular as the only Warlords who managed to endure into the Three Kingdom's era. Cao Wei only conquered them a few years before finally conquering Han Shu.

I had thought about Ma Teng, but more through his son Ma Chao. And I couldn't remember the father's name. Though Han Sui is up in that same region, and might be a better choice.

IIRC, Gongsun Zan was Zhao Yun's original master before the latter joined Liu Bei, which is about the extent of my knowledge of the man.

Both would work as both were significant figures in the immediate aftermath of Dong Zhuo's fall. Ma Chao's eventual rebellion presented a meaningful threat to Cao Cao, and he became a major figure of the period so I'd view a lack of a "Ma" faction as not a great loss but an oversight. If you were to rank warlords as "10 most likely to conquer China" at the fall of Dong Zhuo then Han Sui and Ma Teng would both be on the list.

Gongsun Zan was Zhao Yun's original lord, and to be fair little is known of him. He was a seemingly successful and experience field commander from Northern China, old by the time of Cao Cao's rise, but a major warlord during the Yellow Turban rebellion, and while he lost a major battle against Yuan Shao that ended his own bid to rule China his family managed to hold on longer than anyone else afterwards.

So, I was grabbing the Vampire Coast Sea Shanty off the Total War Access thing (which I had signed up for to get the legendary units sometime back)...

and it turned out there was a set of character portraits for Three Kingdoms, with hero types and traits, and various skills/abilities, items and mounts associated with the character. I doubt all of them are Warlords, but may give some insight (or be old news, dunno)

The background behind them is also themed: Fire, Air, Wood, Earth and what I presume is Metal.

Cao Cao, Hero Type : Commander, Earth

Dian Wei, Hero Type: Champion, Wood

Gan Ning, Hero Type: Vanguard, Fire

Sun Ce, Hero Type: Vanguard, Fire

Sun Jian, Hero Type: Sentinel, Metal(?)

Sun Quan, Hero Type: Commander, Earth

Sun Ren, Hero Type: Vanguard, Fire

Xiahou Dun, Hero Type: Champion, Wood

Xiahou Yuan, Hero Type: Vanguard, Fire

Xu Chu, Hero Type: Xu Chu, Wood

Zhou Yu, Hero Type: Strategist


Notably, all of the Suns except Sun Quan share the 'Flames of the Phoenix' ability. Though so does Xiahou Yuan


Presumably with the various people and families represented, there will be some sort of death and inheritance system involved like Attila or Rome.

Voss wrote:

Notably, all of the Suns except Sun Quan share the 'Flames of the Phoenix' ability. Though so does Xiahou Yuan

Well, all of them did come to a bad end...

(Sun Ren didn't necessarily die prematurely, afaik; but I've heard that her marriage to Liu Bei wasn't a happy one, in part due to the usual suspicions that she was a spy for her family)

Presumably with the various people and families represented, there will be some sort of death and inheritance system involved like Attila or Rome.

Can't imagine that they wouldn't have something like that. None of the three kingdoms ended under the rulership of the individual who founded it. The Sun family in particular went through two leaders early on before Sun Quan finally came to power. Based on the information revealed so far, Sun Jian died pretty much right after the start of the game, and yet his sons founded Wu.

Incidentally, the Guan Yu poster was on the Total War Facebook feed this morning. I'm surprised it and the Liu Bei one weren't on the Access site.

Ma Teng is confirmed.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-ma-teng

Ma Teng's defining characteristic for the write-up is his loyalty to the Han Dynasty. Because of this, he starts out friendly with Dong Zhuo (since Dong Zhuo has control of Emperor Xian). Ma Teng's abilities will be tied to logistics and supplies. He will be able to provide more supplies for his troops, his troops will forage when encamped, requiring no supplies, and cavalry patrols from his cities will collect more supplies for friendly armies, and reduce supplies available to invading armies. He's friends with Han Sui (it's not clear whether Han Sui is part of his faction, or leader of another faction), and Ma Chao has been born, but still hasn't come of age. Ma Teng begins the game at war with Yellow Turban rebels in the Wudu Commandery. His initial dilemma will only kick in when Dong Zhuo dies (which the blog post suggests doesn't have to happen on schedule). When Dong Zhuo dies, his faction will descend into civil war. Ma Teng's initial dilemma will be whether to start a major war on his doorstep by getting involved and possibly rescuing Emperor Xian, or focus his efforts on expanding his power base in other surrounding regions instead.

On a related note, I find the focus for Ma Teng on loyalty somewhat ironic. What I understand is that he and most of his family eventually went to work for the Emperor, who had fallen into the hands of Cao Cao. While he was there, his son Ma Chao (who had been left at home) decided to launch on attack on Cao Cao's holdings. Emperor Xian ordered the execution of the entire family as a result. Ma Chao and his cousin Ma Dai were the only two male members who weren't in Wei, and as a result became the only male survivors of the family.

Yeah it is ironic. While Ma Chao was the one who eventually launched the family rebellion, Ma Teng hoped to be a ruler in his own right, mostly focused on declaring his independence from the Han and ruling his lands as his own domain. He gave that up because Cao Cao was too strong (the rest of the clan obviously didn't) but hie primary characteristic being loyalty to the Han is kind of the opposite of what he should be.

 LordofHats wrote:
Yeah it is ironic. While Ma Chao was the one who eventually launched the family rebellion, Ma Teng hoped to be a ruler in his own right, mostly focused on declaring his independence from the Han and ruling his lands as his own domain. He gave that up because Cao Cao was too strong (the rest of the clan obviously didn't) but hie primary characteristic being loyalty to the Han is kind of the opposite of what he should be.

Might be related to his portrayal in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. In the novel, he tries to assassinate Cao Cao in order to free Emperor Xian. That leads to his death, and Ma Chao swears vengeance on Cao Cao for the death of his father, which is what causes Ma Chao to go to war with Cao Cao.



In any case, Ma Teng's initial dilemma makes me somewhat interested in him. The idea of freeing Emperor Xian from the civil war in Dong Zhuo's domain with the goal of reestablishing Han power sounds kind of interesting. I'm curious whether that will play out any differently than another player (say, Cao Cao, as happened historically) getting control of him.

And here's Liu Biao -

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-liu-biao?fbclid=IwAR2lPmHK54YUyAD_DLxbKxIZ76rFOIINGc-36uCKwIDBkk7l-2FVFs6_FuQ

As his name indicates, Liu Biao is a distant relative of the Han Dynasty, as well as Liu Bei. He is described as The Aristocrat who has a love for academics and the scholarly. His abilities focus around education and training, which allows players using him to more rapidly increase the experience levels of their generals. He also receives a bonus to public order.

Liu Biao starts the game with rebels rising up in his territory. After dealing with the rebels, he is confronted with his inital dilemma. Yuan Shao has sent a secret message to Liu Biao asking him to retrieve the Imperial Seal from Sun Jian. Attempting to do so will lead to war between Sun Jian, and Sun Jian's ally Yuan Shu. Ignoring the request will hurt relations with Yuan Shao, who is a powerful, albeit more distant, warlord. Historically, Liu Biao did attack Sun Jian. He did not retrieve the Seal (Sun Ce ultimately traded it to Yuan Shu for supplies and troops), but Sun Jian was killed by an arrow during the battle. That started a long-running feud with the Sun family, which was only ended when the general who had led Liu Biao's forces in that battle was himself killed in battle.

Liu Biao is already old when the game starts (historically, he died of old age not long after Cao Cao started an invasion), and his sons are described as less than stellar potential heirs. The write-up suggests that the player might want to find another, alternate heir since the sons likely won't turn out to be very effective rulers.

Can't express much interest in Liu Biao. Indeed the guy just wasn't around for long. The biggest impact he made on the era was killing Sun Jian and setting Sun Ce up to build the groundwork for Wu.

This gives me hope though that the players I'd like to see will be in game. Kong Rong and Gongsun Zan were arguably more significant in the era than Ma Teng or Liu Biao. If both of them made it in, I don't see how the other two can't... but life does like to disappoint me.

 LordofHats wrote:
Can't express much interest in Liu Biao. Indeed the guy just wasn't around for long. The biggest impact he made on the era was killing Sun Jian and setting Sun Ce up to build the groundwork for Wu.

This gives me hope though that the players I'd like to see will be in game. Kong Rong and Gongsun Zan were arguably more significant in the era than Ma Teng or Liu Biao. If both of them made it in, I don't see how the other two can't... but life does like to disappoint me.

The big reason for Ma Teng is probably Ma Chao. Plus, they probably decided it would be a good idea to have someone up in that part of the map. Liu Biao also happens to occupy a pretty important location on the map. Namely, he's pretty much in the center of China. And Jing Province, which he controlled, was the eventual cause of lots of friction between Wu and Shu Han (which ultimately led to Guan Yu's death).

Yuan Shao is pretty much guaranteed to be in. Yuan Shu will likely show up as well, given the important role that he played. Liu Zhao seems likely based purely on the amount of territory that he controlled, as well as his position in the southwest. And Gongsun Du is up in the far northeast corner of the map, where his family retained control until quite late in the era, occasionally attempting to take territory from the neighboring kingdom of Gorgoryuo (sp? - part of one of the three Korean kingdoms that existed at the time). Lu Bu seems likely because, well, it's Lu Bu!

That's ten, which - assuming that those are all correct guesses - would leave one more starting warlord.

The next warlord is a bit of a surprise.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-zhang-yan

Zhang Yan is a bandit with territory that borders Gongsun Zan and Yuan Shao. He's described as a definite underdog, who starts out weaker than the surrounding factions. As a result, the description for him suggests that anyone playing him should initially back another more powerful faction so that the player can grow their strength until they're ready to make their move. The advantages described in the article are that he excels at ambushes and deception, his troops move more quickly through forests, and he can engage in diplomacy with the Yellow Turban factions. His initial dilemma focuses on how to handle his initial expansion. Yuan Shao has recently started a campaign against Gongsun Zan (which historically led to the death of the latter and the conquest of his territory), but has left his southern territories lightly guarded. As Zhang Yan, the player can take advantage of this to launch raids into Yuan Shao's territory. Alternately, the player can ignore Yuan Shao, and instead secure the borders against the other bandits in the region. This will provide a more secure home base from which to operate. The article also suggests a third possibility - namely, seizing the mountainous territory to the west. However, expanding in this direction will eventually put you in contact with Dong Zhuo.

Historically, Zhang Yan chose to raid Yuan Shao's territory. This continued until Lu Bu (who had temporarily aligned himself with Yuan Shao) fought against him. Zhang Yan later made contact with Cao Cao, assisted the latter in his battles against Yuan Shao's sons, and subsequently officially surrendered to the Han Court (which was under Cao Cao's control). He was given the rank of Marquis in acknowledgement of his accomplishments.

I'll be honest. I don't remember this guy XD But a bandit factions sounds cool.

 LordofHats wrote:
I'll be honest. I don't remember this guy XD But a bandit factions sounds cool.

I don't know if you've played any Dynasty Warriors games. Some of the more recent ones (8 Extreme and 9, at least) have a mission that has you playing as Lu Bu, fighting bandits on behalf of Yuan Shao. I'd have to double-check, but I think the lead bandit is this guy. Gongsun Zan and Zhao Yun like to put in appearances in those missions, as well, fighting alongside the bandits (though afaik, Zhang Yan never actually fought alongside either one of them). At the end of the missions, Lu Bu (who, in Dynasty Warriors, is searching for someone who can actually challenge him on the battlefield) gets bored fighting for Yuan Shao, and leaves. This sort of matches up with what historically happened. Apparently Yuan Shao found Lu Bu to be too arrogant to work with Shao's forces.

I've probably played the mission and just don't remember the character. The only "generic" characters in DW that I know are ones with big roles like Shamoke and Han Zan (think he became playable in 8? Can't remember).

 LordofHats wrote:
I've probably played the mission and just don't remember the character. The only "generic" characters in DW that I know are ones with big roles like Shamoke and Han Zan (think he became playable in 8? Can't remember).

Yeah, Zhang Yan is completely forgettable within the mission. He's more or less just another generic guy that you need to defeat. The DW8 Extreme version of the mission has you constantly saving Yuan Shao from a bunch of traps and ambushes (or, alternately, leaving Shao to his fate while you go deal with the enemy leader). The DW9 version doesn't even have that.

It's been a while since I posted here, and three new leaders have been announced in the meantime.

The first is one that would have been surprising if he hadn't been in the game. Yuan Shao was the leader of the Anti-Dong Zhuo Coalition, and was initially viewed as one of the likely claimants of the throne when the various warlords finally started squabbling over the bits of the Han Empire. He's described as being good at forging and leading alliances. His initial dilemma is an interesting one. Gongsun Zan is attacking Han Fu at your suggestion, and has asked you for your support. But Han Fu has now turned to you for protection, and is offering his lands in exchange.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-yuan-shao

The most recently announced leader is Kong Rong. He's a great scholar, and he specializes in teaching and educating his population, as well as doing better with trade deals than would otherwise be the case. His initial dilemma involves a great warrior who has offered his services (the image shows Taishi Ci, who initially fought against Sun Ce, but later joined him). Kong Rong can use the warrior to fight against the Yellow Turban Bandits that are attacking him, or can send the great warrior to find aid from another warlord.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-kong-rong?fbclid=IwAR3RkmSqbQKDxoUfUC3V2GX_VHtifmS4WqrucGY67cj3k8ZwXLToVuUlf-4

And finally, we have the third warlord. Zhang Yan was a surprise. This warlord makes him look completely normal in comparison. Zheng Jiang was a bandit leader who was defeated by Cao Cao around 210. Other than that, we know nothing about her. And yes, I said 'her'. She hates the Han Empire, and wants to tear down its institutions. She'll reward a militarily aggressive play style that sees the player constantly on the offensive against neighbors. Her initial dilemma will focus on her neighbor and fellow bandit leader Zhang Yan. Zhang Yan has gotten himself involved in the fighting between Gongsun Zan and Yuan Shao, and has called on his fellow bandits to aid him. The player will have the opportunity to either join in the battle against Yuan Shao, or help themselves to Zhang Yan's territory while he's distracted by the war on the other side of his territory.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-three-kingdoms-warlord-legends-zheng-jiang


One other item worth noting - the entry for Kong Rong suggests that it will be possible to win the game even with a small number of territories under your control.


Nine warlords down, and two to go. Yuan Shao's half-brother, Yuan Shu, is conspicuously absent. I'd be surprised if he was not a starting choice, given that his fighting with Yuan Shao dominated the early portion of the era portrayed by the game. But they haven't announced him yet, and there are only two starting slots left. So we shall see. Dong Zhou or Lu Bu also seem like likely warlords, though. And we still don't have any starting choices that are in the southwest corner of the map, near Chengdu, where Liu Bei ultimately settled. And those options combined make up more choices than we have remaining.

While all the new stuff they have shown looks good, i am still disappointed by the day 1 dlc.

Good to see Kong Rong getting some love. The diplomacy overhaul they're proposing would seem center to his playstyle. Hope it lives up cause that's definitely a weak point in the series in a genre notorious for bad diplomacy.

I haven't played any non-Warhammer Total War games, but I'm such a huge ROtTK fan that I may have to pick this up. One thing I'm curious about, though, is how/if they will handle the defensive fortifications that dotted China in this period, like Hu Lao gate. Total Warhammer didn't have a mechanism for just building a defensive fortification away from a city, which is fine, but Hu Lao Gate is such an important battle of the Anti Dong Zhuo Coalition period that it would be a shame to not have it. Romance of the Three Kingdoms 10 (I think it was 10... I've played so many) put the gates into the game, and they added a new element to the strategy of offense and defense. If you held a gate, it was like having a spare, stationary, army dedicated solely to defense on one of your flanks. Certain cities were unassailable without first capturing a gate or two. And if a defender actually positioned an army on a gate, then you'd get to fight a battle with the gate as a terrain feature/tactical objective.

It was pretty sweet, is what I'm saying.

So I hope Total War Three Kingdoms has the gates, somehow.

squidhills wrote:
I haven't played any non-Warhammer Total War games, but I'm such a huge ROtTK fan that I may have to pick this up. One thing I'm curious about, though, is how/if they will handle the defensive fortifications that dotted China in this period, like Hu Lao gate. Total Warhammer didn't have a mechanism for just building a defensive fortification away from a city, which is fine, but Hu Lao Gate is such an important battle of the Anti Dong Zhuo Coalition period that it would be a shame to not have it. Romance of the Three Kingdoms 10 (I think it was 10... I've played so many) put the gates into the game, and they added a new element to the strategy of offense and defense. If you held a gate, it was like having a spare, stationary, army dedicated solely to defense on one of your flanks. Certain cities were unassailable without first capturing a gate or two. And if a defender actually positioned an army on a gate, then you'd get to fight a battle with the gate as a terrain feature/tactical objective.

It was pretty sweet, is what I'm saying.

So I hope Total War Three Kingdoms has the gates, somehow.

First of all, a quick note that there's no record of a battle at Hulao Gate anywhere aside from the novel. So it appears to have been an invention of the novel's author.

Now having said that...

Ulthuan in Total War: Warhammer 2 already has a gate mechanism in place. As is depicted in the fluff, Ulthuan has a mountain range that runs around the entire continent. And you can't get from the outer shores to the inner shores without going through one of the gates, which are located at the only passes through the mountain range. This is depicted in the game. And based on what I've seen while running around ancient China in Dynasty Warriors 9 (i.e. the open world edition of that series), there were lots of gates in various parts of the country. I've heard elsewhere that the intent behind the gates was to allow the Han to restrict the movement of military forces - *particularly* cavalry in the interior in and around Luoyang. When the lords rose up against the Ten Eunuchs, this restriction was apparently relaxed, which gave Dong Zhuo the opening to take control of the capitol (in the process of overthrowing the Ten Eunuchs).

Or so I've heard.

In any case, as I've mentioned, Ulthuan already features gate garrisons that can be used to restrict movement through parts of the map so long as the gates are garrisoned. This could easily be carried over to Total War Three Kingdoms.

There are also a number of settlements in both Warhammer Total War games that *should* be able to block off passes. But for some inexplicable reason, Creative Assembly made it possible to go around the settlements in every other circumstance in which the settlement in question might have been used to block one end or the other of a pass.

Eumerin wrote:


First of all, a quick note that there's no record of a battle at Hulao Gate anywhere aside from the novel. So it appears to have been an invention of the novel's author.

The battle of Hu Lao Gate basically exists in RotTK to extol the martial abilities of Liu Bei, Zheng Fei, and Guan Yu early in the story, when truthfully they wouldn't start to shine until well after Dong Zhuo's fall. It also feeds heavily into the highly mythologized nature of Lu Bu's character.