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I support my FLGS even though I do not play there and can get cheaper prices online because I like that there's a spot locally for 40k and if I ever did want to play a pick-up game I'd have a place to dot it. Supporting local business' you like is also supporting the community they nurture.

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm part of a very friendly group at a local store, and while it's a great place, I'm not too keen on actually buying from there. I pay my club dues and all necessary fees, but not much in terms of products. One of the members recently bought some rulebooks off eBay, prompting another member to criticise him for not getting them from the store, citing a "lack of community spirit".

Here's the thing, the store sells everything for RRP, whereas most of the other stores I've visited have had some sort of discount. Hell, one of them I visited a few times had a £1 discount on 40K stuff, but even that small reduction attracted customers. I was quite annoyed at this comment, as I'm not particularly wealthy, and if there are cheaper avenues elsewhere surely that should be acceptable.

There's another store I visit whenever I'm in London, I can get a box of Custodes for £26 rather than the £35 the FLGS sells for. I know it's my money to do as I please yet there's this niggling feeling that I should buy from the FLGS. Should I be obliged to pay more to keep this sense of community going?

You should support your local stores by buying what you want, or some snacks, or whatever. To the one you said was spouting off about making a scene about what the other cat bought, that guy needs to shut up. It's none of that persons business where someone buys their stuff from. In the very near future, your store manager, or workers may address this issue with you or your group, and you will be able to give them your opinion... Until then, you have to stretch out your game dollar, especially as the ridiculous prices from the distributor continue to rise.

Do you feel the store has value in its existence, and you want to see it stay open? Then yes, you should absolutely shop there as you can.

I had one where I've been laughed at for asking for products from companies they otherwise stocked. I had one store that went out of their way to order one of any bizarre minis rulebook that came out because they knew I was a sucker for that kind of thing. We just went 5 years with a game store that focused on boardgames and had the barest oddball assortment of minis, but was happy to order anything I wanted. They also did an excellent job of being a community center and were the friendliest, least condescending game store I'd been to in ages. Over the years I bought a crapton of $10 card games that looked goofy and entertaining because I wanted to do my part to help them stay open.

For the past 5 months or so, we've had two game stores in the area who mostly stock lots of minis. A bunch of the same stuff (PP, GW, Attack Wing and the FFG Star Wars stuff), and they frequently snipe at each other. Doesn't make me want to shop at either one.

If you couldn't give a gak if they close, don't spend your money there. But don't bother playing there either.

If you want your local store to stay around, always buy from them when possible. Frankly In my time as a gamer (about 20 years) I have seen 7 gaming stores go bust in my area...that sucks.

I get trying to get a deal, but if you want a place to play or meet new players, you gotta support your local store.

As others have said, it boils down to whether you want it to stay around. You can come up with all sorts of reasons not to buy at a store - club fees, snacks, regularity of gaming, quality of tables, online discounts, etc. But stores survive on selling product. If they don't sell it, they can't pay their bills, and they close. They're not altruistic millionaires keeping stores open for people to plan games in, they're running a business.

Whatever reason you decide to not buy at the store, just keep in mind that not supporting it may help it close its doors. If you like playing there, pay there. If you don't care if it closes and your group can survive elsewhere, such as garage gaming, then don't buy from them and hunt for discounts, but at that point I'd also just not play there and go and do garage gaming anyway.

Local game shops have a symbiotic relationship with their patrons. I do business with my LGS but they also don't charge for tables. Smart owners understand that fair pricing and a thriving community is better than the extra few dollars they make with raised prices and charging for tables.

If you're going to charge for table use, have that go into store credit. This way you still get the money, and they still get to play, while also slowly saving up for purchases on a regular basis.

Just flat charging $ to use the store to play without providing something back seems kind of mistaken imho.

Flat charging $ to use the store to play DOES provide: space, tables, play surfaces, scenery.....

If store received the club dues then you dont need to buy most of your stuff there But a lot of time club dues are not for the store.
You should buy from the store regardless and if you choose not to buy from the store then go play at another location. Odds are you play at the store because it’s convienant, has a thriving gaming community for your chosen game, and has enough terrain and space to suit your leisure activity. If you don’t want to purchase then the store owner has every right to kick you out for loitering. Since you are NOT a customer. And you have absolutely no right to complain about the store closing down or how there is a lack of game clubs in your area.
I personally purchase some stuff from my local and some stuff online depending on what’s convienant for me but it’s about half and half. I’ve stopped trying to find the perfect online retailer since Gw made it so online retailers must sell for no more then a set discount %. Usually the shipping and tax make the savings minimal. My local shop doesn’t have a discount anymore either.

 Polonius wrote:
This is one of those classic moral quandaries.

Gaming stores are business, and if you don't like their prices, you are obviously under no obligation to pay them. (this is the free market approach)

However, gaming stores are also the central gathering point for hobby communities. If nobody buys enough to keep the store in business, it will fail, and hurt the whole community. (this is the utilitarian/tragedy fo the commons approach)

I agree with this, but with the modifier that if you're paying a club fee to the store, then I think you're already satisfying your obligations to the commons. If the business doesn't charge enough in club fees to keep them in business along with their RRP then ultimately I'm not sure to what extent the players should be expected to subside the store's lack of business acumen.

You are never under any obligation IMO to buy from a LGS. Though when it closes your local gaming community will suffer for it. Lack of events, lack of playing space and lack of new blood a store front helps to bring in will certainly poison the water and quickly chase your gaming community on to in-house game tables.

You're never obligated to buy anywhere, but as others have pointed out if you enjoy playing there and using their table space you should be supporting the store by purchasing there. The problem is that a lot of people feel that "supporting the store" means buying occasional inexpensive items like paint, candy bars or chips which is pretty small fries when it comes to paying for the store to remain open. That's the type of stuff that a 7-11 or corner store might get by on but they have a very high amount of foot traffic and volume of sales that no gaming shop is going to come close to matching, plus those type of stores tend to make their bulk off of alcohol and cigarette sales. None of those stores have an available square foot of dead space where a game store is expected to reserve 1/4-1/2 of their floor space for tables which should be used for housing inventory and generating sales.

I certainly sympathize with people wanting to save money, but making all the big purchases online and essentially giving the shop your left over spare change isn't going to keep their doors open. For stuff I play exclusively at home I have no problems purchasing those items online at a discount but for the games that I play in-store I do the majority of my purchasing at that store as I want to see them remain open and continue supporting events for those games. Yeah it might cost be an extra 15-20% because I'm paying normal retail but considering they provide a place to play and also meet new players I consider it a worthwhile investment. My gaming circle doesn't ever expand when all I do is game at home with my friends and in most cases it shrinks over the years as friends get married or move outside the area or even die off. The game store provides a social meeting spot and a community that online sellers simply can't provide which I think offsets the minor additional expense.

After thinking this over, there's some things to consider.

One place I lived, the FLGS was okay. I bought 40k stuff from them when they had it, and if I was looking for it. Even if it cost a few bucks more. But the owner retired, and his son took over- which everyone thought was great because he was more of a gamer than the owner and knew a lot about the stuff. Well, he barred playing Horus Heresy. Then he barred Forge World. He barred all outside food and drink, which was kinda lame because he had Coca-Cola, Sprite, Twix, and Lay's (and I drink coffee). He wouldn't let anyone host a tournament or event unless there was some sort of pay that went to him. He didn't allow people to bring in their own terrain, and would never paint his own or let anyone else paint it (and that's the terrain that wasn't cheap foam and cardboard).

He was the only show in town, and he claimed to be all about the community and told everyone he needed support if they wanted a place to game...

...well, people just started playing in other places.

Sometimes, it's best to not reward a bad place.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
After thinking this over, there's some things to consider.

One place I lived, the FLGS was okay. I bought 40k stuff from them when they had it, and if I was looking for it. Even if it cost a few bucks more. But the owner retired, and his son took over- which everyone thought was great because he was more of a gamer than the owner and knew a lot about the stuff. Well, he barred playing Horus Heresy. Then he barred Forge World. He barred all outside food and drink, which was kinda lame because he had Coca-Cola, Sprite, Twix, and Lay's (and I drink coffee). He wouldn't let anyone host a tournament or event unless there was some sort of pay that went to him. He didn't allow people to bring in their own terrain, and would never paint his own or let anyone else paint it (and that's the terrain that wasn't cheap foam and cardboard).

He was the only show in town, and he claimed to be all about the community and told everyone he needed support if they wanted a place to game...

...well, people just started playing in other places.

Sometimes, it's best to not reward a bad place.

I agree that a gakky store that doesn't help a community shouldn't be supported, but there are a couple irony points. People want to do purchasing elsewhere but will "support the store" by buying candy and drinks at the store, yet will further undermine the stores ability to make money by wanting to bring in outside food and drinks. One could make the case that people want to buy all of their stuff elsewhere and just use the store for free gaming and expect it to magically stay open. Outside food and drink also require clean up and disposal for something that the store makes no profit on and just makes the store a mess for everybody else.

People want nice tables and cool terrain but don't want to pay for using those tables, it costs money to make the tables and gamers (especially the younger ones) tend to be very destructive with store provided stuff. If nobody buys their models in-store, what's the incentive for the store to provide terrain and tables?

 djones520 wrote:

I play exclusively at one store in our town. I certainly don't buy all my warhammer stuff there, but when I'm make a big move on my army, I ensure he gets a percentage of it.

If it's the shop I'm thinking it is, I was still living there when he opened up, and was actually giving strong consideration to jumping back into the hobby then (as opposed to after I'd moved to where I'm at now). . . Sure, I sorta "liked" some of the 40k crowd at Rick's, but it was plainly obvious that we weren't even 2nd class citizens at that shop.


On topic, if the FLGS operator is a hobbyist themselves, there is most definitely one thing they can offer that online retailers can't: help. I don't mean pointing you toward a box or decision making process. I mean, you dropped a thing from that new box, and a bit broke. Or, you're having some issues with the fit you're getting on dry-fitting. An actual, physically present person at the FLGS can help you solve those problems.

Like others, I'm absolutely not suggesting you spend every dime of your hobby money at this one spot. . . I would suggest you spend in proportion to your use of their space tho.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

I play exclusively at one store in our town. I certainly don't buy all my warhammer stuff there, but when I'm make a big move on my army, I ensure he gets a percentage of it.

If it's the shop I'm thinking it is, I was still living there when he opened up, and was actually giving strong consideration to jumping back into the hobby then (as opposed to after I'd moved to where I'm at now). . . Sure, I sorta "liked" some of the 40k crowd at Rick's, but it was plainly obvious that we weren't even 2nd class citizens at that shop.


On topic, if the FLGS operator is a hobbyist themselves, there is most definitely one thing they can offer that online retailers can't: help. I don't mean pointing you toward a box or decision making process. I mean, you dropped a thing from that new box, and a bit broke. Or, you're having some issues with the fit you're getting on dry-fitting. An actual, physically present person at the FLGS can help you solve those problems.

Like others, I'm absolutely not suggesting you spend every dime of your hobby money at this one spot. . . I would suggest you spend in proportion to your use of their space tho.

If you only play on club nights, do club fees cover all though? I wouldn't know. I've
never been a part of a club.

 malfred wrote:

If you only play on club nights, do club fees cover all though? I wouldn't know. I've
never been a part of a club.

In the case of Rick's that I mentioned, it wasn't a "club" per se. . . it was merely that Friday evening was the only night he stayed open due to the MTG crowd. I also have never been part of a gaming club (I guess it isn't all that common in the US??)

At the time I was gaming there, I will readily admit that the 40k guys weren't bringing in much/any money, especially not anywhere near what MTG was. But as I said, we weren't even 2nd class there. We had asked repeatedly if he could unlock a door, even for a few minutes so that we could load/unload our stuff from the store at the end of the night, and they wouldn't. On numerous occasions, seeing kits I didn't want/need, I asked the guys working if I could order through them, and they wouldn't, even when a few of us were asking about a group order when 6th ed 40k dropped. As a business (his sign said he was a sports card shop), he was utterly failing, I honestly believe that the ONLY thing keeping his lights on, was friday night magic, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was out of business now that a proper gaming shop has opened up in that town.

I buy my stuff from my FLGS as in the long run it's cheaper for the smaller purchases I do rather than one off big purchases. If I wanted to save money, I'd purchase it online cheaper, but unless I'm spending £60+ a time, I'd be paying a minimum of £4 for a 2-4 day delivery.

FLGS gives a flat 10% on everything, even web only things (which is handy as I collect Armageddon Steel Legion!) has accounts with Kromlech, TT Combat, North Star Games and Army Painter which helps as their delivery costs can be bad. I pay £2.50 for my usual 4-5 hour weekly gaming session there, but they have loads of terrain, tables, mats and free rule books to use that it's worth it.

If they offer a lot and you enjoy going there, help keep it that way and buy from there. Just my 2 pence.

My local FLGS is closing in April. I've never played 40k there, but I did play at a handful of open board game nights before I got tired of the crowd there. They easily had 100+ games that were open for people to play whenever. In the Spring-Fall, one of our walking routes takes us by the store and we usually pop in. I have bought something about 1/2 of the time I went in, sometimes a paint pot, sometimes a box of Space Marines or GW Terrain or PathFinder book. We've easily spent upwards of $2000 at the store in the past 5 years, if I were to put pen to paper.

My wife and I were lamenting their closing, but as we discussed it, we should have seen it coming.

* We stopped playing at the board game nights because there was a group of regulars that would tell us "Sorry, but we pre-arranged that the 5 of us are going to play Cataan tonight." That left us with whomever else showed up. There was store troll that cheated and smelled. There was vampire dude and his "thrall" of 2 goth teenagers that were only interested in playing some Marvel deck-builder. There was one dad of 2 little ones that we got along with, but usually had to leave early to get the kids in bed. Never once did I see any of those people buy something beyond a pack of cards here and there or some candy/chips. Not one purchase over $5 that either of us could recall.

* One Saturday we swung by to get a codex, and we heard the store owner on the phone transferring money out of an IRA to his personal bank account. Not a good sign.

* There are currently 5 copies of Execution Force, 4 copies of Bloodbowl, and 6 Copies of Shadespire in the store. Why? That's 100s of $ tied up, some for 3 years, that has never moved. 6 copies of the same Terraclips box set. They have a shelf of the FFG 40k RPG books. 5 copies of Only War: The Final Judgement supplement, and those were the only ONLY WAR books they had.

*See also 1000s of $ in Warmachine and Hordes that I've NEVER seen anyone in the store play. A 12' or 15' wall of the gak. We've been there on "Warmachine night" several time. No one. it's all currently 35% off and it's ALL still there.

* They NEVER have the GW thing I'm looking for. I'm talking tactical squads for Space Marines, I'm talking ANY one of the Cities of Death terrain buildings, or Promethium pipes. If I want something, I have to get them to order it. Maybe they get it in 2 weeks, if I'm lucky. BUT, they have had the same 4 boxes of Assault Marines for the past 3+ years.

*They HAD a huge MtG crowd that played every Friday, but a store 2 miles away re-opened and, from what I understand, they started playing there. Mainly because he had twice the playing space and had prize support. The guy running it has a day job and opens the store in the evening. He can "afford" to give out prize support, especially as he's about to be the only option for 20 miles.

It sucks that the store we've purchased from is closing. The people were nice, but I don't know that they really knew how to run a store or had a solid business plan. They obviously didn't have a back up plan for when the other MtG shop opened. I imagine things spiraled out of control quickly once that happened.

Sorry if that's off topic, but I think the bigger message is that if the store carries the game(s) you enjoy, support them if/when you can. If their business plan sucks and the never have what you need, take your business elsewhere.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was out of business now that a proper gaming shop has opened up in that town.

Not the case. I know what you're talking about and I was there a couple of years ago (took me forever to find the place). He's doing a lot better. He apparently hired on some people who actually play 40k and care about it. The Magic players still are the big spenders, but that's kind of a universal thing no matter where you go. At the place where I part-time on weekends, the Magic sales are through the roof. Makes me wish I'd have stockpiled the stuff I had back in the day...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stanman wrote:
People want to do purchasing elsewhere but will "support the store" by buying candy and drinks at the store, yet will further undermine the stores ability to make money by wanting to bring in outside food and drinks. One could make the case that people want to buy all of their stuff elsewhere and just use the store for free gaming and expect it to magically stay open. Outside food and drink also require clean up and disposal for something that the store makes no profit on and just makes the store a mess for everybody else.

In the places I game at in my travels now, most all of them have the universal rule "If we don't carry that drink, we won't stop you from bringing it in". Trust me, I have a bigass 'World's Greatest Grandma' metal coffee mug. There's no cleanup.

 stanman wrote:
People want nice tables and cool terrain but don't want to pay for using those tables, it costs money to make the tables and gamers (especially the younger ones) tend to be very destructive with store provided stuff. If nobody buys their models in-store, what's the incentive for the store to provide terrain and tables?

I think the key here is 'meet me in the middle'. If this old shop would have been like, "Guys I need to see that you want to play and I'll take one of the terrain sets off the shelf and put it on the table" he would have gotten some help.

But, at a certain point, the message becomes clear: "Make do with what I have, or don't play". Pretty soon you start totaling up the prices for terrain and you end up saying, "Well, I can get a table for $50.00. I can drink whatever I want. I can back my truck out of my garage. I can say what I want, bring whatever I want, and kick out undesirable people. Hmmm...." This is why the area where I lived, and still go to from time to time has a small game shop where people post gaming club information. The store owner openly states he doesn't have room for 40k, but will bust his butt to try and find you a group to play with. It works out in the end for him, because they usually support him by having their orders shipped to him and buying painting supplies and stuff.

As I've said for me, I support stores if they have decent stock, offer a discount (that ends up more than a few pennies; e.g. a 10% discount is a joke because of sales tax) and in general encourages the hobby. If they don't have anything other than some tables, that'sf often not enough for me alone.

Last Tuesday the store I play Bolt Action at stayed open for an hour and a half past normal closing so we could finish our game. I'll reward that buy buying a few book off them. We use a lot of their terrain and mats so I try to spend as much as I can there even if its a few bucks more than ebay.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
I buy mine from the FLGS and If they don't have it I have the owner put it on the next shipment and pay him up front for doing it. I like having a FLGS in my small town so I don't have to drive an hour to play a casual game.

But I don't feel obligated to do it.

This.

I feel loyalty to my FLGS and will shop there. That loyalty is not, however, an obligation. I also can't imagine my FLGS owner trying to place such an obligation on me. Instead, he generates loyalty by supporting the community.

If you're paying a fee to play, then you're already doing it. It might be worth a discussion about prices, or it might not.

Here's a story about a local store owner. A few years ago now, a shop selling GW/FoW/RPGs/Magic cards/etc opened up near where I was living. I'd been buying almost all my stuff online for years at that point, and not playing in any store. I got to know the owner a little, and would support him by buying dice, paints, WD, etc - though I didn't play in his storeor buy GW at his 100% of Australian RRP. We we got to know each other a little, he found out that I bought almost all my stuff online (and I buy a LOT) - but here's the thing. Instead of talking to me about discounts (he told me that some accountant had told him they didn't work at all, and were counterproductive to his business), or how we could work together to get me to buy from him (I said if all else was pretty much equal, I'd be happy to get my stuff from him) but instead he felt that I should feel an obligation to buy from him, even if it cost more, because he was a local business.

Even though I had been living in that area for many years longer than his business was there, and didn't play in his store.

His eventual solution was that I would need to order a minimum of $500 worth of stuff from him at a time (ideally, each week) "to make it worth his time". Yes, that's an actual quote. My solution was to pretty much stop going there or buying stuff from him. I later moved, then he moved. I visited his new store and bought some PSC spray cans, and he changed (increased) the stickered prices on the cans as I was buying them "because the wholesale price had since gone up." Not that he's paid the new price for the cans I was buying, obviously... I'm pretty sure this is illegal to do here in Australia, but I didn't bother arguing, I just got the cans and left. (I did need them for the weekend, it was on a Friday night, and this was before I discovered the place that does custom spray cans that's within walking distance)
That was years ago, and the last time I went there or saw him. So all of the stuff in that linked pic above came from... not him.

A couple more things:
If OP is paying a "club fee" in order to be able to play, then he's good.

Years ago, when I regularly played in a store in the City, I bought almost all (like, 95% or more) of my stuff from there. This was before internet shopping took off, but there were a few other stores in town. When my group shifted stores, I bought almost all my stuff from the new venue. I believe in "Pay where you Play", but we weren't charged for table use or a "club fee". With a fee like that in play, then I'd happily have bought from wherever instead of being almost exclusively loyal to the place we gamed at. It's a two-way street. Quid pro quo.

A nice way to support the a FLGS is too organize events with a prize in product. Everyone that wants to participate pays the fee, and the winner gets to buy something from the store for free with the money of the fees.

 kronk wrote:
The people were nice, but I don't know that they really knew how to run a store or had a solid business plan.

It seems that gaming stores and restaurants attract people like these more than other business models.

if anyone is interested in the nitty-gritty, there are some really good articles here. Cut right to 15 if nothing else because that seems to be far and away the most common model.

Kronk's post struck a nerve because it is exactly the tone that I am seeing at the local store. Not only is GW's games talking a back seat, they- AND Warmahordes are not being played in the store. Local shop is removing one table and adding more fold up tables and chairs for card games. Kronks experiences are almost dead on with my own in the local game store. A Game store owner who expects money to roll in without a fuss, but then gets mad because the prices of products are out of peoples spending range, as the rules sets OP themselves out of existence. Resulting in games of cards being played, not Tabletop games.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Resulting in games of cards being played, not Tabletop games.

To be clear, I accept that MtG and other card games keep the lights on. I get it.

Unfortunately, this store did not have a back up plan when a re-opened rival store took most of their MtG players.

Their GW stock didn't interest me, and they didn't seem to fussed about ordering stuff for me in a reasonable time, so why bother.

the good thing about my local store is they are expanding to a larger location just down the street which will have more wargaming tables and more card/rpg space. I hope it works out for them since they nearly closed in October due to a tax situation.

I would always try whenever possible to purchase from myLGS as long as the price was within 10% of what i could get the item for on the internet. They more than made up for it with ee event prizes and the space to play. If you like them being open , support them whenever reasonable. If the mark up is too high, then your hand is forced to purchase outside. Good luck in your moral dilemma !

You are paying to play so I wouldn't feel too bad for not buying from there. What I would do though is buy like paints glue that kind of stuff from your Local FLGS if you are feeling bad

I dont underatand why people think its ok to use a shop and not buy goods from there , i wouldnt go to a resturant and buy a small drink and expected to use that table for a couple of hours.
Your not going to save that much by shoping online