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Here's an idea, the scene from deliverance lsot consisted of the writer screwing up.

 Ketara wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
.Yet in the story where Corax is found by the Emperor, the Emperor tells him he only has seventeen brothers, and when pressed, says that they're a story for another day.

These two facts combined mean that the Emperor knew that one of the Lost Primarchs was done for/unrecruitable prior to having actually physically found/located him. As Lorgar explicitly separates the two missing Primarchs as having 'failed' instead of having turned on the Emperor; this can only mean that the second 'Lost' Primarch never signed up to the Imperium to begin with.

An explanation with less-complex assumptions would be that by the ‘seventeen brothers’ the Emperor meant the seventeen Primarchs already found before Corax; the ‘story for another day’ being how they all got scattered. The corollary of this would of course be that the first of the missing Primarchs was not expunged until after this point. As I recall Laurie Goulding has subsequently stated that BL work on the basis that all twenty Primarchs had been found prior to the two purges taking place.

Yes, exactly.

Like I said earlier, BL/GW should just reveal all when it comes to the Lost Legions.

The HH was the first sacred cow, now gone.

Let's kill this one too!

one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

 Corennus wrote:
one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

There's no actual evidence to say a Legion was absorbed into the Ultramarines.

The ONLY time it's mentioned is by a pair of traitor legionnaries when they're essentially talking about the Ultramarines Legion. We are told by more reliable sources, and see actively happen, that the Ultramarines had a very large recruitment centre and logistical efficiency, explaining their ability to rapidly take in troops and take fewer casualties. Therefore, it's completely logical that the Ultramarines would have a larger legion, and other legions, especially traitor legions, would propose in-universe conspiracy theories on the matter.

So, I’d say that one was killed off by the Wolves as a result of some cataclysmic geneseed flaw, while the other potentially did a “Dark Angels” and split apart pre Heresy, with the loyalists denouncing their Primarch and being absorbed into the Ultramarines after various trials.

But I’m with you. I think, it’s getting to the point where BL should start providing hints that will allow us to draw reasonable conclusions to their fates, whilst never actually spelling it out directly. The names can be left “forgotten”, allowing people to come up with their own side stories etc, but the causes should be developed further.

I also agree that we are potentially seeing distinct changes to the old “canon” in the HH books. I never saw/read the original lore regarding the siege of Terra etc, but, I remember having a debate with someone, where I stated that with the amount of differences between what was previously said to have happened, and what was happening now, things could end up significantly different by the end of the siege.

 Ketara wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
We can actually work out roughly what happened to the lost legions from facts revealed thus far. So. Facts we know about the lost legions:-

-Sanguinius was scared that the genetic flaw of the Black Thirst being revealed would cause his legion to be destroyed. The logical conclusion is that some biological flaw must have occurred regarding one of the lost legions to base that assumption on.
- Both were destroyed in between the years 30,840 (the Finding of Lion El'Jonson) & 31,560 (The Drop Site Massacre). This means that one of them was potentially destroyed before the finding of Perturabo, Mortarion, Curze, Angron, Lorgar and the Khan.
-That the Space Wolves were involved in the destruction of at least one legion.
-That one of the Primarchs was considered 'Lost' before he was even found by the Emperor. We know this because the Emperor dismissed two of the Primarchs as being a bad subject matter when he found Corax, even though he'd only found one of the Missing Primarchs at that time (according to the official BL order of finding leaked by Laurie Goulding).
-Vulkan used the word 'Sanction' when describing what happened to the Missing Primarchs. This would appear to imply one of them disobeyed the Emperor.
-It is stated that a Black Scroll has been dispatched by Malcador to a Legion's homeworlds only twice before, the implication being for the dissolution of a Legion.
-Book seven of the Horus Heresy says that entire Legions were lost in the Rangdan Xenocides, which took place in the 30,860's.
-Lorgar stated that two of his Brothers 'Failed' whilst the rest ''turned' on the Emperor. So it is unlikely that the two went into open rebellion against the Emperor prior to their destruction.
-Cawl declares that the destroyed Legions were not at fault, nor was their geneseed, but the Primarchs (or their actions).
-There is a stated rumour that the Ultramarines grew large at the time one of the other Legions vanished. This has been stated by the author to have just been stuff he was making up as he went along and a rumour as opposed to anything canon. But still worthy of note (as the Universe exists independent of any individual author).

Not that I disbelieve you, but [Citation needed] Just for my own curiosity so I can check what's been said.

Which one? I can substantiate all of them.

All of 'em. Specifically, the one about the Space Wolves having done it.

even the guy who wrote the bit about the Ultramarines has come out and basicly said "don't take that too literally given the soruce you can safly assume it was just two word bearers gak talking"

 Corennus wrote:
one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

I think ADB confirmed the former wasn't the case and was just in-universe rumours. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's true.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

I think ADB confirmed the former wasn't the case and was just in-universe rumours. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's true.

he did yes people reaaaally need to stop taking everything stated in a book as literal truth. Consider how many BS untrue statements you see in a day (even before fake news and donald trump)

Lord Fishface wrote:
An explanation with less-complex assumptions would be that by the ‘seventeen brothers’ the Emperor meant the seventeen Primarchs already found before Corax; the ‘story for another day’ being how they all got scattered. The corollary of this would of course be that the first of the missing Primarchs was not expunged until after this point. As I recall Laurie Goulding has subsequently stated that BL work on the basis that all twenty Primarchs had been found prior to the two purges taking place.

I'm not sure its 'less complex assumptions'. Applying Occam's Razor, both are identically simple and likely at this stage. I'll happily concede that that is a pefectly feasible alternative explanation for the Emperor's statement though.

That being said, I would appreciate a link to the Goulding statement.

AndrewGPaul wrote:
All of 'em. Specifically, the one about the Space Wolves having done it.

Blimey guv, just a few references then?

1. Sanguinius keeping his genetic issue secret from his father for fear of them being terminated like a prior legion is in his discussion with Horus in Fear To Tread.
2. We have a timeline between which the Missing Legions must have been eliminated due to twenty contemporary Primarchs being mentioned when the Dark Angels and Jonson are first brought into the fold, and the fact that the two missing ones weren't there when the Heresy started.
3. The Wolves being 'loosed again' on a space marine legion is mentioned in the Outcast Undead. There's also considerable supporting evidence in the frequent mention of them as 'Executioners', Wolves mentioning fighting other Legions before (Burning of Prospero) and so forth. The extent of their involvement is unknown, but the fact that they were at some stage would appear to be the case.
4. The Corax quote has been gone into at length already.
5. Vulkan in Vulkan lives, 'None of us wants another sanction, another empty pillar in the great investiary'. There's also a vague statement in Legion '"I believe their operation and conduct should be reported to the Council of Terra, pending censure or dissolution. It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." which might refer to it (though this is less certain than the Vulkan quote).
6. The Black Scroll background comes from Lost Sons by James Swallow.
7. This is sourced already in the prior statement.
8. I actually misattributed this one initially. It wasn't Lorgar, but Guilliman in Dark Imperium. '"I was one of twenty. Two failed. Half the rest turned on my father. The Emperor is not infallible, nor am I."
9. The same source and Cawl. '"The warriors were not at fault. The science is not at fault. Their Primarchs were.'
10. See below.

That do the trick for you?

BrianDavion wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

I think ADB confirmed the former wasn't the case and was just in-universe rumours. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's true.

he did yes people reaaaally need to stop taking everything stated in a book as literal truth. Consider how many BS untrue statements you see in a day (even before fake news and donald trump)

I'm not sure if this was referring to me or not, but I've referred to the later retraction at every step of the way and qualified accordingly.

 Ketara wrote:

Lord Fishface wrote:
An explanation with less-complex assumptions would be that by the ‘seventeen brothers’ the Emperor meant the seventeen Primarchs already found before Corax; the ‘story for another day’ being how they all got scattered. The corollary of this would of course be that the first of the missing Primarchs was not expunged until after this point. As I recall Laurie Goulding has subsequently stated that BL work on the basis that all twenty Primarchs had been found prior to the two purges taking place.

I'm not sure its 'less complex assumptions'. Applying Occam's Razor, both are identically simple and likely at this stage. I'll happily concede that that is a pefectly feasible alternative explanation for the Emperor's statement though.

That being said, I would appreciate a link to the Goulding statement.

AndrewGPaul wrote:
All of 'em. Specifically, the one about the Space Wolves having done it.

Blimey guv, just a few references then?

1. Sanguinius keeping his genetic issue secret from his father for fear of them being terminated like a prior legion is in his discussion with Horus in Fear To Tread.
2. We have a timeline between which the Missing Legions must have been eliminated due to twenty contemporary Primarchs being mentioned when the Dark Angels and Jonson are first brought into the fold, and the fact that the two missing ones weren't there when the Heresy started.
3. The Wolves being 'loosed again' on a space marine legion is mentioned in the Outcast Undead. There's also considerable supporting evidence in the frequent mention of them as 'Executioners', Wolves mentioning fighting other Legions before (Burning of Prospero) and so forth. The extent of their involvement is unknown, but the fact that they were at some stage would appear to be the case.
4. The Corax quote has been gone into at length already.
5. Vulkan in Vulkan lives, 'None of us wants another sanction, another empty pillar in the great investiary'. There's also a vague statement in Legion '"I believe their operation and conduct should be reported to the Council of Terra, pending censure or dissolution. It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." which might refer to it (though this is less certain than the Vulkan quote).
6. The Black Scroll background comes from Lost Sons by James Swallow.
7. This is sourced already in the prior statement.
8. I actually misattributed this one initially. It wasn't Lorgar, but Guilliman in Dark Imperium. '"I was one of twenty. Two failed. Half the rest turned on my father. The Emperor is not infallible, nor am I."
9. The same source and Cawl. '"The warriors were not at fault. The science is not at fault. Their Primarchs were.'
10. See below.

That do the trick for you?

BrianDavion wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
one legion was disbanded and subsumed into the Ultramarines.

The other was lost in the warp.


Personally i've always liked the idea that one legion survived secretly and fought in the warp for thousands of years.

I think ADB confirmed the former wasn't the case and was just in-universe rumours. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's true.

he did yes people reaaaally need to stop taking everything stated in a book as literal truth. Consider how many BS untrue statements you see in a day (even before fake news and donald trump)

I'm not sure if this was referring to me or not, but I've referred to the later retraction at every step of the way and qualified accordingly.

not aimed at you but people who tend to take that statement as gosiple truth.

In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

Given the mess which developed from people reading an account which is stated by the character telling the story as being inaccurate in Mechanicum as literal truth, I'd say that's sadly not true for a significant portion of readers

 Ketara wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

Bingo, ADB may not have intended it to be taken literally and said so afterward, but since it's now in a book, he no longer has a say until he writes a book that contradicts it, or someone else does, until that happens, its canon.

 Formosa wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

Bingo, ADB may not have intended it to be taken literally and said so afterward, but since it's now in a book, he no longer has a say until he writes a book that contradicts it, or someone else does, until that happens, its canon.

no it is NOT canon. what IS cannon is that "some word bearers. whom have little love for Gulliman have suggested it to be the case.

 Irbis wrote:

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:
Long, long ago, in the mists of time, I got the chance to ask Rick P. and Jervis J. (separately) why the two missing Astartes Legions? I loved their answer: They wanted players to have the freedom to make up their own.

Isn't that just excuse invented ex post-facto? The first edition did in fact name all of them, missing two being the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors.

This is incorrect. Legions, as we know them today, simply did not exist when those Space Marine Chapters were listed in anything. Those are from a time when Space Marines were mostly criminal juicers.

 Ketara wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

Of course GW can go that way tomorrow regardless of what is written in previous books. GW can write tomorrow Horus killed Emperor and ascended to full daemonhood releasing daemon primarch Horus for 40k tomorrow.

So what? GW can change things future anyway. What we now have is two word bearers speculating. Nothing of proof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:

Bingo, ADB may not have intended it to be taken literally and said so afterward, but since it's now in a book, he no longer has a say until he writes a book that contradicts it, or someone else does, until that happens, its canon.

Yes. It's canon those 2 word bearers believed so. Not cannon that it's actually what happened.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

Bingo, ADB may not have intended it to be taken literally and said so afterward, but since it's now in a book, he no longer has a say until he writes a book that contradicts it, or someone else does, until that happens, its canon.

no it is NOT canon. what IS cannon is that "some word bearers. whom have little love for Gulliman have suggested it to be the case.

Yep, self same word bearers who have more in universe knowledge on the subject that we do, they have heard duty rumours that the ultras had a large intake, and half believe it, what isn't canon is people's total disregard of it, that's just opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
In all fairness I say to you guys what I said to him, it's part of the fluff now and canon, he can say xyz after the fact but if it's not in a book, it's just the writers take on it, if he wants it removed or taken as a rumour, he needs to put that in a book.

He DID it was two word bearers gak talking the Ultramarines. I don't think we need to have our hands held in explaining to us in a novel that "not everything everyone says is always the truth"

I think what Formosa's trying to say, is that now that it's been written it's in an extended sci-fi universe beyond Goulding's control; which in turn means that whilst we can all agree/know he didn't mean it that way right now, another BL library author can always decide to refer to it and make it true in a later publication should they so desire. The in-universe seed/fluff has been planted. Whilst it may well just remain as an in-universe bit of untrue nasty gossiping; Games Workshop could decide to go down the 'Primarch decided not to join and his Legion was dispersed' story route tomorrow if they wanted to. In which case it would become true, as opposed to just gossiping.

After all, who can tell where authors will draw their inspiration from, or what conclusion they'll be ordered to construct a story for? Christ knows that Boba Fett was never originally meant to be the overinflated character he turned into.

Of course GW can go that way tomorrow regardless of what is written in previous books. GW can write tomorrow Horus killed Emperor and ascended to full daemonhood releasing daemon primarch Horus for 40k tomorrow.

So what? GW can change things future anyway. What we now have is two word bearers speculating. Nothing of proof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:

Bingo, ADB may not have intended it to be taken literally and said so afterward, but since it's now in a book, he no longer has a say until he writes a book that contradicts it, or someone else does, until that happens, its canon.

Yes. It's canon those 2 word bearers believed so. Not cannon that it's actually what happened.

See you get it, they believed it, that lends it some credibility, not much mind you, but some.

 Formosa wrote:

Yep, self same word bearers who have more in universe knowledge on the subject that we do, they have heard duty rumours that the ultras had a large intake, and half believe it, what isn't canon is people's total disregard of it, that's just opinion.

Actually in universum characters are the ones disadvantaged over readers who know more...Just because 2 random word bearers are speculating on it doesn't mean it's so.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:
Long, long ago, in the mists of time, I got the chance to ask Rick P. and Jervis J. (separately) why the two missing Astartes Legions? I loved their answer: They wanted players to have the freedom to make up their own.

Isn't that just excuse invented ex post-facto? The first edition did in fact name all of them, missing two being the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors.

This is incorrect. Legions, as we know them today, simply did not exist when those Space Marine Chapters were listed in anything. Those are from a time when Space Marines were mostly criminal juicers.

Actually (he says in a nasal voice, pushing his specs back up his nose), the Rainbow Warriors were depicted in the first Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. At that time there was no Horus Heresy, and in fact, no Chaos Gods at all. When the Realm of Chaos books, Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were released (not quite simultaneously; AT was first, I can't remember whether RoC:StD came before or after SM), some of the Chapters were made First Founding Chapters (the term Legion was reserved for traitor forces, and was effectively a synonym for Chapter). At this point, I remember there being 17 named, and three blanks. One of the scenarios in Space Marine mentioned the Crimson Fists, though, so there's some slight confusion.

The Valedictors were Andy Chambers' invention. Originally used as the example force in the Space Marine army list for Epic in May 1990, and featured in a battle report against Jervis' Orks in January 1991 (the first time those two faced each other in a WD battle report - it set the precedent of Jervis losing). They've never been seen again, and unless they've been retconned into something in the new Horus Heresy fiction series, they've never been referred to either.

So, Rainbow Warriors are canon (still canon, although they might no longer exist; their homeworld was shown on the map in a previous edition of Codex Space Marines with some sort of censored indication). Valedictors were basically Andy Chambers' homebrew Chapter - not really any more canon than my invented Knight household.

tneva82 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Yep, self same word bearers who have more in universe knowledge on the subject that we do, they have heard duty rumours that the ultras had a large intake, and half believe it, what isn't canon is people's total disregard of it, that's just opinion.

Actually in universum characters are the ones disadvantaged over readers who know more...Just because 2 random word bearers are speculating on it doesn't mean it's so.

True and not true, we know only what's written, where as these people would have had lived through events that have never been written about, the best stories are the ones that seem like they have been going on with or without our observation.

We have no idea WHY they believe this to be so, we don't know how the rumour came to be or if it's actually true, all we know is they believe it's true, and they know more about the subject than we do, because they have seen the missing legions and their primarchs, we have not.

 Alpharius wrote:
Can the "Laurie List" really be considered "Official" or perhaps "Still Official"?

And didn't we also hear from Official Sources that all of the Primarchs were found and had their day(s) in the Sun before any thing at all went pear shaped?

All of the primarchs were found and participated in the Great 'Crusade per the CSM dex.


Of interesting note, according to Fulgrim as told by Commander Alkenex of the EC in Clonelord (so second hand info from an unreliable source. etc. etc...) one of the two forgotten ones lead an expedition to the YMGA Monolith (which is located conveniently near Solemnace) and what they found in there was never recorded.


Sooo, they drop a pretty heavy hint there. But at the same time Trazyn says later "He's never had a primarch in his collection before". So unless Trazyn is a forgetful fella then that douses water on that one.

Good stuff there Grimtuff - thanks!

I just got done reading Master Of Mankind and could swear the Ragdan xenocide was referenced as culling an entire legion. And the Emperor himself says that 'failure' is the greatest heresy. Basically insinuating that one of his Primarchs totally failing (losing his entire legion to xenos) was more heretical than Horus turning traitor. But pretty sure only one legion was mentioned being lousy in the Xenocide.

Speaking of rumours, don’t forget the one reported in HH Book 2 Of Terran-born Iron Hand Commander Autek Mor’s geneseed’s ‘origin not being as it should’.

 Lord Fishface wrote:
Speaking of rumours, don’t forget the one reported in HH Book 2 Of Terran-born Iron Hand Commander Autek Mor’s geneseed’s ‘origin not being as it should’.

Think it was path to heaven or scars but it shows there was a heavy mixing of gene seed with the Terran lengionaries, they were sent where needed regardless of gene seed.

 Formosa wrote:

 Lord Fishface wrote:
Speaking of rumours, don’t forget the one reported in HH Book 2 Of Terran-born Iron Hand Commander Autek Mor’s geneseed’s ‘origin not being as it should’.

Think it was path to heaven or scars but it shows there was a heavy mixing of gene seed with the Terran lengionaries, they were sent where needed regardless of gene seed.

I can't remember if they gave each recruit's affectation before or after the first implantation, but it would be interesting if not strange to do it AFTER, especially in the White Scar's case as it would make their half-rebellion much deeper and more "logical" (even though it is already quite so as it is), they would lack the genes needed to identify to the Khan.