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Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Skorchas are not bad if you already have multiwounds models in your list. Not only trukks or BWs, but also planes, kanz and artillery. I always bring 2-3 of them if I go with a mechanized list.

IMHO ghaz is overcosted. 215 points for a slow character that only gives buffs in close combat is too much. For morale you just need a 62 points warboss. I think he should be 180 at most.

For the 215 points he costs we can field a biker boss and two weirdboyz which are way better than a single ghaz.

 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Blackie wrote:
Skorchas are not bad if you already have multiwounds models in your list. Not only trukks or BWs, but also planes, kanz and artillery. I always bring 2-3 of them if I go with a mechanized list.

IMHO ghaz is overcosted. 215 points for a slow character that only gives buffs in close combat is too much. For morale you just need a 62 points warboss. I think he should be 180 at most.

For the 215 points he costs we can field a biker boss and two weirdboyz which are way better than a single ghaz.


Yeah, that's what i've noticed as well. I feel you can only really field him in 2000+ point games to make his cost feel less prohibitive and even then you can take more cost effective choices. He really is there more for the fact that he's our only HQ who's survivable with his 4+ invuln.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Also the only HQ that is dangerous to vehicles. A warboss with his d3 damage per failed save struggle to take down anything larger than a light walker.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Jidmah wrote:
Also the only HQ that is dangerous to vehicles. A warboss with his d3 damage per failed save struggle to take down anything larger than a light walker.


That's also true. Power Klaws, even with the price drop, really lack oomph and require hot dice to do consistent damage against any multi-wound model. Especially considering that as an army we rely on it so much to do damage, it should be base damage 3 or do D6 damage.
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




Texas

 koooaei wrote:
Strategems can indeed be used to mitigate horrible shooting and to-hit modifiers. 2 cp for +1 to hit on a 5+ bs is really rough though.

The problem is that orks don't get a lot of cp atm. A fining' kap will surely help with that. 5+ to return or steal cp. + a trait or something. We might also get super ghaz but i'm afraid he's gona be ruined by having 10+ wounds. Cause he allready has 8 iirc.

How are you having trouble getting cp? Running green tide should be giving you 9cp at the very least.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Jidmah wrote:
Also the only HQ that is dangerous to vehicles. A warboss with his d3 damage per failed save struggle to take down anything larger than a light walker.


It's true but ghaz is extremely slow and if you jump him you're not jumping 30 boyz. You can put ghaz in vehicles but considering how expensive transports and ghaz are you may end up with not enough bodies. I used to bring ghaz in my BWs list at the beginning of the edition but I noticed that it's quite easy for the opponent to deal with him. Ghaz can't really chase vehicles and it's not immortal against melee heavy hitters. A single turn of shooting can put him down quite easily but if you protect him too much with boyz you're basically using him only for his morale buff and his +1A. At that point a warboss and two psykers are more efficient.

Zhadsnark can deal D3 damage like standard warbosses but he has AP-4 and hits on 2s. Only 122 points and great mobility. His downside is the moral buff which goes only to evil sunz units but since we don't have the codex now it's irrelevant what clan we bring to battle. The biker boss with killchoppa is only 93 points and can deal mortal wounds, he hits on 2s as well. Now ghaz deals 3 damage but 215 points are really a lot for a megarmored dude. If the megarmor grants the ability to deepstrike like terminators I'd take him everytime, but with his current profile I think it's 30-40 points overpriced, maybe even a bit more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 08:08:40


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Meanmurph wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Strategems can indeed be used to mitigate horrible shooting and to-hit modifiers. 2 cp for +1 to hit on a 5+ bs is really rough though.

The problem is that orks don't get a lot of cp atm. A fining' kap will surely help with that. 5+ to return or steal cp. + a trait or something. We might also get super ghaz but i'm afraid he's gona be ruined by having 10+ wounds. Cause he allready has 8 iirc.

How are you having trouble getting cp? Running green tide should be giving you 9cp at the very least.


Currently, if you're taking squads of boyz, you want them to be in 30-man squads - that's ~190 pts per squad. 6 squads are around 1150 pts. Well, let's say you get 1-2 min squads just to fill slots, that'd still clock at around 900 pts minimum.
Than you need all the HQ. Ghaz, 1 or preferably 2 bosses, one of which must be biker boss to babysit stormboyz and dajumping boyz, 2 wierdboyz - That's another 450-550 pts. I'm not even talking about taking kff meks as i don't think they're worth it over spamming more bodies. But some people do take kff meks for hordes and that inflates HQ cost even more.
Now for the required fast attack slot - you need stormboyz in at least 20-man units. That's another 525 pts.
For elites you should probably take at least one painboy to heal up wierdboyz and Ghaz and 2 tankbusta squads in trukks cause how the hell are you gona deal with vehicles from afar? Boyz are slow, stormboyz won't kill enough and will get killed. Other option is to take kommandoes instead of tankbustas but than you lack range damage and can do absolutely nothing vs flyers that will have a potential to snipe out indeps and wreck your list by doing just that. So, 2*10 tankbusta squads in trukks and a painboy cost 650 pts. Nore that i'm not even taking waaagh banner. One banner is extra 85 pts.
Heavy support - that's easy. No real competitors here. KMK. 3 kmk cost ~125 pts. Ideally, you want more for such large games. But than let's say you're all about boyz.

So, sure, you can run brigadebut a functional brigade will clock at around 2650 pts Minimum. I guess you can lower that to 2500 but that's still quite a large game. Interestingly enough, you end up with a decent list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Also the only HQ that is dangerous to vehicles. A warboss with his d3 damage per failed save struggle to take down anything larger than a light walker.


It's true but ghaz is extremely slow and if you jump him you're not jumping 30 boyz. You can put ghaz in vehicles but considering how expensive transports and ghaz are you may end up with not enough bodies. I used to bring ghaz in my BWs list at the beginning of the edition but I noticed that it's quite easy for the opponent to deal with him. Ghaz can't really chase vehicles and it's not immortal against melee heavy hitters. A single turn of shooting can put him down quite easily but if you protect him too much with boyz you're basically using him only for his morale buff and his +1A. At that point a warboss and two psykers are more efficient.

Zhadsnark can deal D3 damage like standard warbosses but he has AP-4 and hits on 2s. Only 122 points and great mobility. His downside is the moral buff which goes only to evil sunz units but since we don't have the codex now it's irrelevant what clan we bring to battle. The biker boss with killchoppa is only 93 points and can deal mortal wounds, he hits on 2s as well. Now ghaz deals 3 damage but 215 points are really a lot for a megarmored dude. If the megarmor grants the ability to deepstrike like terminators I'd take him everytime, but with his current profile I think it's 30-40 points overpriced, maybe even a bit more.


Ghaz hasn't underperformed even once for me in 8-th. But regular bosses have. It's quite easy to compare them. Ghaz will deal 8.33 wounds to t7-11 3+ armor. Boss will deal 3 wounds. He's 4 times tougher vs bolter fire and 2.5 times tougher vs plasma. And even more so if you spend cp to re-roll this game-changing 4++ save. He also buffs the rest of the army with +1 attack. And he's as fast as a regula footslogging warboss. Sure, 3 bosses will be in 3 places but all they really do is keep ld. Ghaz wrecks face and buffs the army.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/03/24 10:45:01


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I wouldn't call a model with 5" and the ability to advance and charge "extremely slow". You obviously haven't played a unit clad in Cartiphractii terminator armor yet
On a more serious note, he is faster than kans and nauts, and those usually do reach combat.
He is just as fast as boyz are eventually he will get close enough to something worth kill. Many vehicles don't want to move, and even a LRBT will not escape Ghaz by moving half speed

Note that everything else you have just described (minus the slow part) is also true for daemon princes and hive tyrants, which see plenty of play. If you leave your characters out of position, they will get nuked, and setting them against equally or more powerful characters is usually no more than a gamble.

The comparison between Zhadsnark and Thrakka is kind of lacking. Zhadsnark (and regular biker warbosses) are great at slaughtering infantry of all kinds, especially since he is fast enough to drive around most screens, clear objectives and take out backfield units. But drive him into a monstrous creature, helbrute or dreadnought and I assure he ends up dead (no mortal wounds vs vehicles by the way).
Thrakka hits on 2+ as well, has equal or more attacks and just one less AP, but 3 damage per unsaved wound anything with 9 or less wounds will most likely not survive a charge by Thrakka unless it has a decent invulnarable save and/or FNP.
They simply don't fulfill the same roles. Zhardsnark is an assassin and Thrakka is a dreadnought (funny enough, he says so himself in the fluff). Ideally, I want both in my army.

The killchoppa isn't that good against vehicles though - the mortal wounds happen on a 6+ to wound and deal mortal wounds instead of damage. You're basically just skip rolling saves. It's pretty awesome against single wound infantry though - instead of dealing d3 damage to one poor marine, you get to kill d3 in one swing instead.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Yeah, I'd never send the warboss against monsters or armored stuff that are not transports unless they are damaged and I just to finish them off. I have KMKs and bustas for them and eventually boyz for a tarpit role.

A full unit of boyz can cause more wounds than ghaz against a dread in a single turn, while being cheaper and more versatile. 30 shootaboyz should strip 2W off a dread by shooting and 6-7 by close combat hits, not even counting the nobz weapon or a weirdboy buff. Slugga & choppa boyz can kill a dread in a single round of combat.

Close combat oriented specialists like wulfen can melt ghaz even if the legendary warboss charges them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:


It's quite easy to compare them. Ghaz will deal 8.33 wounds to t7-11 3+ armor. Boss will deal 3 wounds. He's 4 times tougher vs bolter fire and 2.5 times tougher vs plasma.


For the same price you can field 3 warbosses instead of 1 ghaz. Then their ability to deal 3W against T7 3+ becomes 9W and you'll also have way more wounds making them quite tough to kill. They can also be in different places.

I don't say he's bad, he definitely has a great profile. I just don't think he worths 215 points.

Arjac Rockfist is 145 points and not that different from ghaz. He has T4, 5W, 4A but he also hits on 2s, can be teleported, gives buffs to other units, and his hammer can also be fired in the shooting phase. 3 damage against characters and monsters. 3+ invuln and the abililty to reduce the damage inflicted by 1. I play him a lot and prefer him over ghaz pointswise, and I don't think arjac is undercosted, he's not an auto take.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/03/24 13:09:45


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I can see both sides to the Ghaz argument.

One thing I think that I like about him is that my opponents are (rightfully imo) terrified of him. They've taken too many beatings, seen his potential damage output too many times to leave him be.

Players that are normally tactically sound make some very strange decisions when they see Ghaz on the table. He's also the closest we have to a PrimeOrk so I feel that I should play him for that alone
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Blackie wrote:
Yeah, I'd never send the warboss against monsters or armored stuff that are not transports unless they are damaged and I just to finish them off. I have KMKs and bustas for them and eventually boyz for a tarpit role.

A full unit of boyz can cause more wounds than ghaz against a dread in a single turn, while being cheaper and more versatile. 30 shootaboyz should strip 2W off a dread by shooting and 6-7 by close combat hits, not even counting the nobz weapon or a weirdboy buff. Slugga & choppa boyz can kill a dread in a single round of combat.

Close combat oriented specialists like wulfen can melt ghaz even if the legendary warboss charges them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:


It's quite easy to compare them. Ghaz will deal 8.33 wounds to t7-11 3+ armor. Boss will deal 3 wounds. He's 4 times tougher vs bolter fire and 2.5 times tougher vs plasma.


For the same price you can field 3 warbosses instead of 1 ghaz. Then their ability to deal 3W against T7 3+ becomes 9W and you'll also have way more wounds making them quite tough to kill. They can also be in different places.

I don't say he's bad, he definitely has a great profile. I just don't think he worths 215 points.

Arjac Rockfist is 145 points and not that different from ghaz. He has T4, 5W, 4A but he also hits on 2s, can be teleported, gives buffs to other units, and his hammer can also be fired in the shooting phase. 3 damage against characters and monsters. 3+ invuln and the abililty to reduce the damage inflicted by 1. I play him a lot and prefer him over ghaz pointswise, and I don't think arjac is undercosted, he's not an auto take.


3 bosses are 3 drops. First of all, more drops are worse for going first. Secondly, the enemy can interrupt the turn with a strategem and wipe 2 bosses before they strike. In my games that was very important. Not saying that Ghaz is always superior to 3 bosses. Especially if you run mech orks. But i'd prefer Ghaz to 3 bosses every time when footslogging. At least for 1250+ games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see your point, though. And i'd probably prefer regular bosses to Ghaz if i was running mech orks for the reasons you specified before. Ghaz wagon is too big of a threat to be left alive turn 1. But if you redistribute the threat evenly across 3 wagonz, it's a different story

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/24 14:52:15


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




DontEatRawHagis wrote:


Playtesting can make or break any army. Agreed. In other games I’ve played competitive players always seemed to comment on how overpowered the underpowered armies kept getting. Then the deva remove the buffs they gave for fear of game imbalance.

Seeing as the Frontline Gaming people have at least one Ork player(an outspoken one at that) I feel that the playtesting further turn to favor Orks. Probably slowly, but I have more faith in that than other Xenos armies getting better.


FLG has 1 Ork Player, and he is outspoken, but he is also terrible at the game and understanding Orkz, I don't know how this happened, or if he has a second or third army that is his prime army and Orkz are his fun project but Reece is TERRIBLE when it comes to understanding orkz.

For Example, Reece said something along the lines of "The Stompa is amazing" and "Killa Kanz work great!" The man literally has no idea how to play the army or what it is about. I jokingly said at the start of this edition that he had to have been paid off by GW to make up that much BS about our army, but as the game goes on and on that statement looks even more true (still just joking).

Play testing for Orkz goes in the OPPOSITE direction, it doesn't favor us, it actively hurts us. In every tournament I have been to, the top armies always feature HEAVY anti-vehicle/MC spam and very little horde control, the only competitive ork build right now is HORDE so we fly directly in the face of the competitive META which is good for us, makes us have a chance at winning, but over inflates how good we actually are.

What units do we have that are actually worth anything that aren't based on a Boyz profile, basically things that aren't Boyz, Stormboyz or Kommandos? KMKs are decent, but really only because GW is so idiotic that they tried to buff the Morkanaut and accidentally made the KMK Mek Gunz better, Morkanaut is still trash. What else? Ghaz is decent, wicked slow and only works when buffing spammed boyz, Painboyz aren't that good anymore, even if they provide their buff to several units. Big Mekz? nope. Weirdboyz...I'll give you weirdboyz they are good, but only again because you can buff them with spammed boyz. How about Warbikes, Deff Koptas, Kanz, Dreadz, Nautz, Lootas, Stompas, Burnas, Flash gitz, Nob Bikerz, Meganobz? I mean I can keep going, the list of terrible units is pretty huge, and even Tankbustas suck right now, they require an 80pt+ transport to be used at all, otherwise they are easily killed by someone staring at them funny.

No, play testing is not in our favor, especially when our biggest advocate thinks the Stompa is worth taking and that Kanz are good. Let me know when either of those units is used in a major tournament and the Ork army finishes 1st, or hell, in the top 10.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






SemperMortis wrote:
For Example, Reece said something along the lines of "The Stompa is amazing" and "Killa Kanz work great!" The man literally has no idea how to play the army or what it is about. I jokingly said at the start of this edition that he had to have been paid off by GW to make up that much BS about our army, but as the game goes on and on that statement looks even more true (still just joking).
Reece says a lot of things are amazing. When you listen to him talk you need to adjust your personal scale.

Normal Person (NP) says: best unit ever. Reece says: best unit ever!
NP: outstanding role playing unit. Reece: best unit ever.
NP: very efficient unit. Reece: best unit ever.
NP: pretty good, maybe unit. Reece: one of the best units.
NP: meh, good enough. Reece: very competitive unit.
NP: would not play this unit. Reece: an amazing unit.
NP: trash teir unit, avoid. Reece: maybe not the best, but still amazing!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 09:32:23


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 koooaei wrote:

Currently, if you're taking squads of boyz, you want them to be in 30-man squads - that's ~190 pts per squad. 6 squads are around 1150 pts. Well, let's say you get 1-2 min squads just to fill slots, that'd still clock at around 900 pts minimum.
Than you need all the HQ. Ghaz, 1 or preferably 2 bosses, one of which must be biker boss to babysit stormboyz and dajumping boyz, 2 wierdboyz - That's another 450-550 pts. I'm not even talking about taking kff meks as i don't think they're worth it over spamming more bodies. But some people do take kff meks for hordes and that inflates HQ cost even more.
Now for the required fast attack slot - you need stormboyz in at least 20-man units. That's another 525 pts.
For elites you should probably take at least one painboy to heal up wierdboyz and Ghaz and 2 tankbusta squads in trukks cause how the hell are you gona deal with vehicles from afar? Boyz are slow, stormboyz won't kill enough and will get killed. Other option is to take kommandoes instead of tankbustas but than you lack range damage and can do absolutely nothing vs flyers that will have a potential to snipe out indeps and wreck your list by doing just that. So, 2*10 tankbusta squads in trukks and a painboy cost 650 pts. Nore that i'm not even taking waaagh banner. One banner is extra 85 pts.
Heavy support - that's easy. No real competitors here. KMK. 3 kmk cost ~125 pts. Ideally, you want more for such large games. But than let's say you're all about boyz.

So, sure, you can run brigadebut a functional brigade will clock at around 2650 pts Minimum. I guess you can lower that to 2500 but that's still quite a large game. Interestingly enough, you end up with a decent list.


If your goal is getting 9 CP, would it be more efficient to get 3 x the one below brigade (battalion?). Without the number to hand, I reckon you could do that for under 1000 points. This would create a really poor MSU army, but assuming your battle was larger than this, just invest in increasing the Boys mob sizes (and maybe upgrading the HQs to have some purpose) and it soon becomes effective, with no need for unwanted HS,FA and Elite options...

Of course, there is some recommendation about number of detatchments that people have quoted somewhere, but I can't remember what it is, where it is, or how much it is enforced... 2 batallions on a smaller game still nets a respectable +6CP with less unwanted small boyz units...
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 koooaei wrote:
[
Currently, if you're taking squads of boyz, you want them to be in 30-man squads - that's ~190 pts per squad. 6 squads are around 1150 pts. Well, let's say you get 1-2 min squads just to fill slots, that'd still clock at around 900 pts minimum.
Than you need all the HQ. Ghaz, 1 or preferably 2 bosses, one of which must be biker boss to babysit stormboyz and dajumping boyz, 2 wierdboyz - That's another 450-550 pts. I'm not even talking about taking kff meks as i don't think they're worth it over spamming more bodies. But some people do take kff meks for hordes and that inflates HQ cost even more.
Now for the required fast attack slot - you need stormboyz in at least 20-man units. That's another 525 pts.
For elites you should probably take at least one painboy to heal up wierdboyz and Ghaz and 2 tankbusta squads in trukks cause how the hell are you gona deal with vehicles from afar? Boyz are slow, stormboyz won't kill enough and will get killed. Other option is to take kommandoes instead of tankbustas but than you lack range damage and can do absolutely nothing vs flyers that will have a potential to snipe out indeps and wreck your list by doing just that. So, 2*10 tankbusta squads in trukks and a painboy cost 650 pts. Nore that i'm not even taking waaagh banner. One banner is extra 85 pts.
Heavy support - that's easy. No real competitors here. KMK. 3 kmk cost ~125 pts. Ideally, you want more for such large games. But than let's say you're all about boyz.


Think better way of getting 9CP+3 from battle forged is 3 battallions. 1 to fill in all the boyz you want, 2 filled up with either more boyz or cheap grot squads to sit on objectives. Orks have too much poor tax on other slots. At least grotz are cheap tax and enemy will feel wasting firepower shooting at them if he wants to clear them from objectives.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

If you want a brigade you're probably going with a green tide, 180 boyz and some stormboyz. So the best elite choices would be a couple of painboyz and a unit of kommandos for a grand total of 151 points. Bustas in trukks are too expensive and if don't have other transports they'll die turn 1.

 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

Back in 7th there were rumors about new warbuggy kits from multiple sources that never amounted to anything. 1 year ago I was certain I spotted orky bitz in the rumor engine that could easily have been warbuggies.

I am quietly confident we will see a new kit for orks with the codex release likely to be in a boxed set much like the Forgebane set so the chance of this feel like it goes up the later the codex comes out.

But the codex is probably going to be crap in rules/competitive terms much like all of the last few releases of ork models, I'm looking at you Wazbom blasta and the nauts(crap when released but improved in 8th).

My wishlist is that Ghaz gets a new model and stat line in keeping with his fluff. He really should be Primarch level.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Blackie wrote:
If you want a brigade you're probably going with a green tide, 180 boyz and some stormboyz. So the best elite choices would be a couple of painboyz and a unit of kommandos for a grand total of 151 points. Bustas in trukks are too expensive and if don't have other transports they'll die turn 1.


I'm quite sure that he included the 3CP for being battleforged in his 9CP. So 3+3+3 is two battalions, which indeed is very easy to do for orks compared to armies like space marines or eldar.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






I’m dying for a codex but I do have to agree with those who have said 8th edition orks are in an ok position right now.the cheapest unit you can get is also one of the best , role with it, green tide you Gitz!!!
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

 Hammer of God minis wrote:
I’m dying for a codex but I do have to agree with those who have said 8th edition orks are in an ok position right now.the cheapest unit you can get is also one of the best , role with it, green tide you Gitz!!!


Only good in tournaments because the meta is anti tank, against someone expecting a horde they loose hard my wolves have no issue wiping out orcs in melee be it blood claws or wolf claw wielding wolf guard they mince boys and laugh off the return attacks because orks really lack ap, mega nobs with power claws no longer cut it.

In all my games against my mate only one game was lost because he got lucky with random objectives, he had 12 grots and 8 boyz left when the game ended.

Orks are not okay, they need some love but given they have no champion in the studio I doubt they'll get it.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

hobojebus wrote:
 Hammer of God minis wrote:
I’m dying for a codex but I do have to agree with those who have said 8th edition orks are in an ok position right now.the cheapest unit you can get is also one of the best , role with it, green tide you Gitz!!!


Only good in tournaments because the meta is anti tank, against someone expecting a horde they loose hard my wolves have no issue wiping out orcs in melee be it blood claws or wolf claw wielding wolf guard they mince boys and laugh off the return attacks because orks really lack ap, mega nobs with power claws no longer cut it.

In all my games against my mate only one game was lost because he got lucky with random objectives, he had 12 grots and 8 boyz left when the game ended.

Orks are not okay, they need some love but given they have no champion in the studio I doubt they'll get it.


I totally agree, and I play both orks SW, which I think are clearly superior than orks at the moment, despite being another index army.

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 Hammer of God minis wrote:
I’m dying for a codex but I do have to agree with those who have said 8th edition orks are in an ok position right now.the cheapest unit you can get is also one of the best , role with it, green tide you Gitz!!!


If the metric for measuring the quality of an army is by their ability to win a game then sure Orks are ok. If the metric is about how viable the whole roster of units are in that army then Orks are in a terrible place. Orks basically have to spam Boyz to have a chance because its basically what Orks have that can cut the mustard. If you look at the shooty or mechanized options in the Ork dex then you see a lot of sub par units that are too costly for what they do and too vulnerable to the core game mechanics. If you like any of the other Ork playstyles like Trukk Boyz, Biker Mobs, Battlewagons, Dread Mobs, Shooty Orks, Nob heavy lists, etc then your basically SoL because those sorts of lists don't work very well in 8th unlike in 7th where despite how horribly underpowered Orks where you did have at least a few playstyle options (Bikers, Green Tide, Trukk Boyz, and in some metas Blitz Brigade). Orks right now are basically where Nids where with codex Flyrant, one workhorse unit with a small selection of supporting cast while the other 75% of the army roster being incredibly underwhelming.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Haven’t read the entire thread so sorry if someone mentioned it already, but there are tons of ways to make irks shooting viable against -hit modifiers
For example
>more dakka-orks who have a high model count as their opponent always hit on an unmodifible BS
>simply an ork clan that has a +to hit or makes it so it always hits in x
It would actually be funny and fluffy if orks became the faction that counters -hit modifiers considering they are all about dumping shots down range.
With how great every codex coming out this year has been I have faith that the ork codex will be just as good as all the resent releases
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Hell no such rule. That's silly.

What orks needs is simply a) more shots for points b) universal rule 6 always hits. This shouldn't be ork only as there are other armies that suffer. Orks shouldn't be special snowflake that gets special fix just because leaving other armies suffering from same. NOBODY should be 100% impossible to hit ever. That is not balanced and that's super non-sensible. Doesn't make sense balance wise, doesn't make narratively.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






I find it funny how most people complained about invisible units in 7th ed and now they kinda brought them back. Someone in the rule team sure does love this crap. Bit even without modifications the Ork shooting is still overpriced.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 lolman1c wrote:
I find it funny how most people complained about invisible units in 7th ed and now they kinda brought them back. Someone in the rule team sure does love this crap. Bit even without modifications the Ork shooting is still overpriced.


Over priced, under powered and completely vulnerable to any kind of return fire. The Dark Eldar are the Glass cannons of the game, we are the Glass Peashooters.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
Hell no such rule. That's silly.

What orks needs is simply a) more shots for points b) universal rule 6 always hits. This shouldn't be ork only as there are other armies that suffer. Orks shouldn't be special snowflake that gets special fix just because leaving other armies suffering from same. NOBODY should be 100% impossible to hit ever. That is not balanced and that's super non-sensible. Doesn't make sense balance wise, doesn't make narratively.

I wouldn’t mind a universal always hit on 6 but I quiet like the idea of hard counter (regiments, chapters,clans etc). Just like nids having a hive fleet that heavy counters physic focused armies I like the idea of other hard counters. It forces people to make more rounded lists or include tech units that wouldn’t usually be taken. Having counters to one trick pony forces (like stacking minis to hit) is a great way to make them not put all their eggs in one basket
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




would also have a game wide lift on how the dice work, score a "7" but rolling a 6 then a 4+, an "8" by a 6 then a 5+ and have a 6 followed by a 6 be "always hits"

yes you get a small number of hits, but its not zero
   
 
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