Redeployment during games ( Veil, dark matter crystal) and Tactical Reinforcements new FAQ rules

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Ordana**

doctortom wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
The RAW seem very clear here that the restriction applies. There's a FAQ which is even explicit that you treat units using things like Gate as arriving as reinforcements. I have no idea how people are discerning intent otherwise since these abilities function exactly like a deep strike and any game design argument for why one should be restricted on turn 1 would seem to apply just about as well to the other.

We now have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. Yes, I agree the RAW rule does not allow it but todays information is, imo, good enough to allow it. I would just urge GW to update the Faq to be more clear.

Agreed, we have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. They said you can benefit from the powers. What they didn't make clear, though, is that you can use that redeployment to leave your deployment zone in the first turn.

Except it says it is unaffected by the beta rule, so it can't be effected by the beta rule limiting you to your deployment zone

**doctortom**

Ordana wrote:
doctortom wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
The RAW seem very clear here that the restriction applies. There's a FAQ which is even explicit that you treat units using things like Gate as arriving as reinforcements. I have no idea how people are discerning intent otherwise since these abilities function exactly like a deep strike and any game design argument for why one should be restricted on turn 1 would seem to apply just about as well to the other.

We now have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. Yes, I agree the RAW rule does not allow it but todays information is, imo, good enough to allow it. I would just urge GW to update the Faq to be more clear.

Agreed, we have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. They said you can benefit from the powers. What they didn't make clear, though, is that you can use that redeployment to leave your deployment zone in the first turn.

Except it says it is unaffected by the beta rule, so it can't be effected by the beta rule limiting you to your deployment zone

Where does it say that? Quote please - the quotes I've seen provided here say nothing of the sort.

**Ordana**

doctortom wrote:
Ordana wrote:
doctortom wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
The RAW seem very clear here that the restriction applies. There's a FAQ which is even explicit that you treat units using things like Gate as arriving as reinforcements. I have no idea how people are discerning intent otherwise since these abilities function exactly like a deep strike and any game design argument for why one should be restricted on turn 1 would seem to apply just about as well to the other.

We now have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. Yes, I agree the RAW rule does not allow it but todays information is, imo, good enough to allow it. I would just urge GW to update the Faq to be more clear.

Agreed, we have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. They said you can benefit from the powers. What they didn't make clear, though, is that you can use that redeployment to leave your deployment zone in the first turn.

Except it says it is unaffected by the beta rule, so it can't be effected by the beta rule limiting you to your deployment zone

Where does it say that? Quote please - the quotes I've seen provided here say nothing of the sort.

Spoiler:

The Wierdboy text deals with the relevant abilities and says "like any ability that lets you move an already deployed unit it 's unaffected by the new beta rule."

**doctortom**

Ah, another Facebook post that's just shown up in other threads. Why isn't it included in the FAQ then if we're supposed to be playing it that way?

**Audustum**

doctortom wrote:
Ah, another Facebook post that's just shown up in other threads. Why isn't it included in the FAQ then if we're supposed to be playing it that way?

Because, I suspect, the Rules Team didn't think through all the ripples of their actions.

**Ordana**

doctortom wrote:
Ah, another Facebook post that's just shown up in other threads. Why isn't it included in the FAQ then if we're supposed to be playing it that way?

Because they aren't all that good at writing clear rules?

**doctortom**

Ordana wrote:
doctortom wrote:
Ah, another Facebook post that's just shown up in other threads. Why isn't it included in the FAQ then if we're supposed to be playing it that way?
Because they aren't all that good at writing clear rules?

That's for sure, given the first FB post didn't actually say they could be moved outside their deployment zone. So, we're getting the fix of a fix of a beta rule that's supposed to fix things.

**ikeulhu**

doctortom wrote:

Agreed, we have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. They said you can benefit from the powers. What they didn't make clear, though, is that you can use that redeployment to leave your deployment zone in the first turn.

Except that the current clarification clearly states that the Tactical Reserves rules does not apply to any units that are set up on the field during deployment. If that is not clear enough, I do not know what is. If you want to debate that an official promo written in collaboration with the writers of the rules themselves posted on the official facebook page for 40k is not "official enough" that is another argument altogether.

This is an admittedly sloppy way to approach implementing a Beta Rule, but with GW's track record of muddy rules writing we really should not be too surprised.

**doctortom**

ikeulhu wrote:
doctortom wrote:

Agreed, we have a clear statement from GW that allows turn 1 redeployment. They said you can benefit from the powers. What they didn't make clear, though, is that you can use that redeployment to leave your deployment zone in the first turn.

Except that the current clarification clearly states that the Tactical Reserves rules does not apply to any units that are set up on the field during deployment. If that is not clear enough, I do not know what is. If you want to debate that an official promo written in collaboration with the writers of the rules themselves posted on the official facebook page for 40k is not "official enough" that is another argument altogether.

This is an admittedly sloppy way to approach implementing a Beta Rule, but with GW's track record of muddy rules writing we really should not be too surprised.

The first clarification of the rules didn't have it, however, and I hadn't seen the latest facebook post when I posted that statement. which helps points out the sloppiness of their approach that you mention. They couldn't have been bothered to have posted it up on the community website, where more people would have seen it,.

**ikeulhu**

doctortom wrote:

The first clarification of the rules didn't have it, however, and I hadn't seen the latest facebook post when I posted that statement. which helps points out the sloppiness of their approach that you mention. They couldn't have been bothered to have posted it up on the community website, where more people would have seen it,.

Yeah, that first question and clarification was horribly worded, and indeed did not in fact state if it allowed deployment outside of deployment zone at all! I got side tracked and had not noticed your later posts indicating you were not yet aware of the latest clarification when I posted. I agree the rule clarification promo that is now on the facebook page should have been posted on the community site as well.

**SkuzlBuTt**

So... what's with UPON WINGS OF FIRE stratagem? is it's legal to charge via it on 1st battle turn?

**p5freak**

The weirdboy text deals with the relevant abilities and says "like any ability that lets you move an already deployed unit it 's unaffected by the new beta rule."

**sneekyo**

So I've read all of this and I just want to be clear. Can you dark matter crystal into enemy deployment zone turn one?

**BaconCatBug**

sneekyo wrote:
So I've read all of this and I just want to be clear. Can you dark matter crystal into enemy deployment zone turn one?

You can now because GW changed the rule. You couldn't before (in April), but since that rule doesn't exist anymore it's a moot point.

From the Big FAQ 2

TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in ambush, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

As you can see there is no longer any restriction regarding deployment zones anywhere. In fact the part of the rule regarding not being able to arrive on turn 1 now explicitly only applies to units "that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment". It's almost like they changed it for a reason or something!

**p5freak**

Yes, you can. But you cant move for any reason. You can charge, pile in, consolidate.

**tneva82**

BaconCatBug wrote:
sneekyo wrote:
So I've read all of this and I just want to be clear. Can you dark matter crystal into enemy deployment zone turn one?
You can now because GW changed the rule. You couldn't before (in April), but since that rule doesn't exist anymore it's a moot point.

From the Big FAQ 2

TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in ambush, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
As you can see there is no longer any restriction regarding deployment zones anywhere. In fact the part of the rule regarding not being able to arrive on turn 1 now explicitly only applies to units "that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment". It's almost like they changed it for a reason or something!

Nothing changed in how rules worked. Gw officially clarified you could in april.

**doctortom**

tneva82 wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
sneekyo wrote:
So I've read all of this and I just want to be clear. Can you dark matter crystal into enemy deployment zone turn one?
You can now because GW changed the rule. You couldn't before (in April), but since that rule doesn't exist anymore it's a moot point.

From the Big FAQ 2

TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in ambush, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
As you can see there is no longer any restriction regarding deployment zones anywhere. In fact the part of the rule regarding not being able to arrive on turn 1 now explicitly only applies to units "that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment". It's almost like they changed it for a reason or something!

Nothing changed in how rules worked. Gw officially clarified you could in april.

Not true, the FAQ changed things by not allowing deployment during the first turn so you don't get people deploying onto the board first turn then using something else to try to redeploy. It made that a moot point.

**BaconCatBug**

tneva82 wrote:
Nothing changed in how rules worked. Gw officially clarified you could in april.

If nothing changed, then why did they change the rule?

I don't remember any official FAQ between April and now that clarified it, could you link it to me as I seem to have missed it.

**ccs**

BaconCatBug wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Nothing changed in how rules worked. Gw officially clarified you could in april.
If nothing changed, then why did they change the rule?

I don't remember any official FAQ between April and now that clarified it, could you link it to me as I seem to have missed it.

I believe they were talking about the FB post referenced here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/755153.page Last post on the page.

**BaconCatBug**

ccs wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Nothing changed in how rules worked. Gw officially clarified you could in april.
If nothing changed, then why did they change the rule?

I don't remember any official FAQ between April and now that clarified it, could you link it to me as I seem to have missed it.

I believe they were talking about the FB post referenced here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/755153.page Last post on the page.

I see. In that case Facebook also said that anyone who's name begins with B automatically wins.

That isn't "officially clarified", that's a random GW social media intern stating incorrect things. I'll leave it at that before this goes into another death spiral.

**nosferatu1001**

Which bit was incorr3ct? Where they said this bit came form the rules team, or the actual info from the rules team?
The only one who spirals is you, with your inability to allow GW to decide how they are allowed to distribute information on their own game.

**BaconCatBug**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Which bit was incorr3ct? Where they said this bit came form the rules team, or the actual info from the rules team?
The only one who spirals is you, with your inability to allow GW to decide how they are allowed to distribute information on their own game.

The bit where the rules say they are incorrect? If a random GW Staffer said on stream "Space Marines have a 1+ save" do Space Marines suddenly have a 1+ save?

**nosferatu1001**

Which rules would those be?
The ones in the brb? Oh wait, outside of the brb GW say those rules can be modified - which rule, in the brb, allows that?

You've just decided only you can decide when and where they're forbidden from changing the rules to their own game

Your arrogance is astounding. You ability to create straw men and slippery slope fallacies, along with not actually knowing what Appeal to Authority fallacy means , is quite amusing.