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I want to like them. Really, I do.

But I hate how new players load up on them, figure out they're not the best option, and have to invest in new armies.

It feels like GW is waiting for the right time to release a full line of Primaris options (specifically, things like Rhinos, but Primaris sized.) They could have done a lot better by players by pushing a wider range from the start.

The other issue I have with Primaris is the sculpts. They lack a lot of detail for a reason, which I understand. But converting one is actually very tricky, in part because all other GW parts are in another scale. They just look too uniform compared with other armies.

I've accumulated a lot of Primaris models through Dark Vengance, army dumps, and one-sided trades. Still don't know what I plan to do with them.

 techsoldaten wrote:
...The other issue I have with Primaris is the sculpts. They lack a lot of detail for a reason, which I understand. But converting one is actually very tricky, in part because all other GW parts are in another scale. They just look too uniform compared with other armies...

Yes and no. The legs/torsos are cut in different places from most Space Marines so you're a bit stuck with those, but the backpacks on the infantry are less far off than they look and the arms/pauldrons/heads are pretty much interchangeable.

Here's a Primaris-Deathwatch Assault Marine I built to see what it'd look like with a Mk.IV jump pack out of the Sanguinary Guard kit, Deathwatch pauldrons, and Vanguard Veteran lightning claws on a Reiver body.

 skchsan wrote:
It is nearing the 1 year mark since the 8th ed and the primaris marines have dropped.

Almost a year later, I still have yet to come to like the primaris line both on the table top and aesthetically. To me, they are the space marines of Warhammer 80k universe, and have no place in 40k in terms of playability (barring a few combos) and visually.

I'd agree they are beautifully sculpted models, but the scale is off, details are off (nearly all primaris line actually lack the classic astartes markings, allowing you to customize them without having them look like they're from another chapter i.e. over abundunce of double headed eagle, blood drop with wings, sword with wings, etc), just everyjing about them feels out of place. I mean, they're at the height of a centurion FFS. And the redemptor? Nearly TWICE the size of the old dreads... Maybe it's cheaper for GW to hire less than best sculptors that can't scult things at old scale anymore...

Primaris still has no love from me. It's a big flip off to old collectors.

After a year I still cannot see them, they're ugly as hell. I'm not a fan on SM anyway but primaris really look comical. Only the new deathguard looks worse.

The scale is probably their biggest downsize, they really are too big compared to the typical infantry model in 40k. But maybe it's just me, since I never liked guys that are supposed to be super elites but also the bulk of the army. If SM look too small compared to guardsmen it's a guardsmen problem, not a SM one. Make guardsmen smaller, not SM bigger. I think regular SM were ok, they just needed to be customized a bit because I personally can't stand having two dudes in the army that look exactly the same, let alone entire units. In fact I really like SW infantry models, which can at least have lots of different heads without the helmet but I don't mind BA models as well.

Reivers, repulsor, inceptors and aggressors, but also characters are the worst primaris models aesthetically.

I don't want to consider the fluff around them

I personally enjoy the new Primaris both from design and rules wise. They of course need a little polishing up and we have yet to see the whole line but there is a lot of potential out there with the line! If you ever get the opportunity a white dwarf from the fall actually goes into a lot of detail about the design choices they made and the effort to consolidate many different aesthetics to give them both functional and unified themes along with the cool factor. For instance they explicitly state the armor is left bare of iconography because as new marines with new armor they have not earned the accolades of the older marines, whose armor has seen millennia of combat and thousands of victories. I think they also wanted to go with the New Age look because Guilliman represents the hope for the future instead of the slow decline of the Imperium, so naturally his marines also reflect that ideal.

As for the fluff, I know we hear complaints about it pretty much all day but I cannot think of a way they could have introduced them without alienating a large portion of fans or creating a product that would have not been purchased. For example, if they simply sold "same marines as the old, but bigger!" they would not have sold many as a lot of us already have a companies worth or more of marines floating around so we would have maybe bought a box, but most would not go out and buy whole new sets. Additionally there would have been cries of treachery and betrayal, that GW was going to invalidate their models and take them away from them (in black helicopters I might add)! Introducing them as a new faction of marines was brilliant because it adds new models that add variety but don't take away from the existing range. Sure they kind of come out of nowhere but how else are you going to plug in a new advanced unit into an empire of people afraid of change? You have to force it, and it makes sense from Guillimans point of view that he already had this program in the works since he wanted to see his Father's plans taken to the next level. Once Guilliman "died" those plans were put on hold, being secret and all and the craziness that is Cawl taking his directions completely literally. Now that the Gman is back and everything is going to hell his new advanced "heretical" marines are being accepted not just because he tells them to, but because the reinforcements are desperately needed.

Could the rules be better? Yes, but I can see what they want to do with it. They all mirror the idea of the Crusade armies that Guilliman would be most familiar with, units of highly specialized units all armed similarly. I think they are solid but not a No-Brainer. If the rule were over the top people also would have cried foul that their old marines were being replaced. Honestly I would enjoy more support weapon options (a devastator style squad, maybe something like heavy bolters on repulsor webs, rockets, etc) and a less armed transport, like a hover Rhino or drop pods. I like the Repulsor and it is a wonderful ball of pure Dakka, but its a bit pricey for what it does. Theres a lot more primaris coming down the pipe and once most of it is out we will see what the bigger picture is. On a side note I found it enjoyable in the Dark Imperium novel that the Primaris Captain thought "I really wish I had a lascannon like those tactical marines, but this is what I have"

Fluff wise it's been horrible

But model wise they are nice to the point where as of today I have finally finished a 4500pts army of them all painted

I like the fluff and the models. I've collected SM for years, and I've sold off all my old marines to start a pure Primaris force. I'm not huge on Gravis armour, but I don't exactly dislike it either.
Fluffwise, I enjoy the story of Cawl being tasked with improving marines, but I'd prefer if Cawl went a bit more overboard and openly used the tools he's got to work with traitor and/or purged geneseed.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I like the fluff and the models. I've collected SM for years, and I've sold off all my old marines to start a pure Primaris force. I'm not huge on Gravis armour, but I don't exactly dislike it either.
Fluffwise, I enjoy the story of Cawl being tasked with improving marines, but I'd prefer if Cawl went a bit more overboard and openly used the tools he's got to work with traitor and/or purged geneseed.

They kind of hint that Cawl already has done some "tinkering" with traitor gene seed, going as far to mention in Dark Imperium that they were perfectly sound and he has no idea why Guilliman would not allow their use, so I hope they head down that road in the future.

As a painter not a player , I think they are brilliant, I love them the talk of scale I think is irrelevant as none are ever in scale, often hands are same size as heads or nearly as big , detail plus aesthetic look often has to trump scale otherwise models look terrible.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I like the fluff and the models. I've collected SM for years, and I've sold off all my old marines to start a pure Primaris force. I'm not huge on Gravis armour, but I don't exactly dislike it either.
Fluffwise, I enjoy the story of Cawl being tasked with improving marines, but I'd prefer if Cawl went a bit more overboard and openly used the tools he's got to work with traitor and/or purged geneseed.

In one of the issues of WD when primaris were just coming out they had a section of paint jobs. Anyway the chapter was called son's of the Phoenix or something and they had a purple white scheme with gold trim. Maybe I'm reading too far into it but I'd say Cawl tinkered with some traitor Gene seed

 Blackie wrote:

If SM look too small compared to guardsmen it's a guardsmen problem, not a SM one. Make guardsmen smaller, not SM bigger.

EXACTLY my point. They were able to make Tau sufficiently smaller (one of the reasons why I stopped collecting Tau after 3rd ed - they were TINY compared to my friend's guardsmen). I don't see why guardsmen couldn't be relaunched at 'correct' scale.

I really think it's current supply of sculptors at fault here... the current school of aesthetics when it comes to sculpting miniatures have changed and it's hard to find good sculptors stylistically similar to old sculptors.

BrianDavion wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
Honestly, they're the space marines I wish I had access to fifteen years ago.

In that time. I've seen marines go from 'basic, yet practical', to being loaded down with more and more greeble and overly ornate and extravagant and unnecessary and over the top embellishments and decor to the point where they look like walking reliquaries ('wingface' the honour guard was my last straw!) that having a new line of marines come out that are to scale, with actual pouches and gear modelled on them sim amazing by compari/son.

Primaris are the best models gw have done since the metal cadian Kasrkin around 2003.

I mostly agree, I don't mind bling on space marines but I'd much rather the bling be something I can add myself. As opposed to baked on

I'm mostly with these guys. Space Wolves come with so much bling that I usually chop it off, good thing I kept it all because Primaris models need a trinket here and there.

I haven't played 8th so I can't really speak about their table top performance. Aesthetically I don't like'em. The helmets with built in massive ear muffs look bad. The lack of sci-fantasy details is very ungothic. They lack most of the important unit options a complete army would require. It feels rushed. Like their release was more to support future Primaris releases, and that GW would finish the Primaris update once they'd made enough money to continue. Basically a sad, penny pinching half hearted release. The fluff seems a bad bolt on bit of after thought. GW obviously wanted to get in on the true scale marines and came up with some baloney to sell models. It's an excuse to get 1000s of players to rebuy their collections. Like many others have said, they just should have made their current line of miniatures larger.

 Red Marine wrote:
It's an excuse to get 1000s of players to rebuy their collections.

And this is why I said this is a big flip off to old collectors... I'd hate to see the day I have to update my Ravenwing army I poured my soul (and by soul I mean countless hours put into to it to make them look unique w/ conversions & re-posing) and money with a release of "Primaris Jetbikes" that'll make my army more worthless on tabletop as it is...

 skchsan wrote:


I always assumed Inceptors WHERE the Primaris Bikes

Inceptors are the new assault marines with better melee amd moar dakka, no?

Can’t wait for Primaris jetbikes - with some uber melee weapons.

 Primark G wrote:
Can’t wait for Primaris jetbikes - with some uber melee weapons.

Oh hell yes. Would GW basically make a non gold colored 2nd Custodes army? You damn right. What do you think Sigmarines are? MOAR SPESSMAWREENS! Every conceivable flavor of space marine, with the popular and/or overpowered units repeated as often as possible.

I know it sounds terribly pessimistic, but my grievance is as much about the change as it is about how poorly it was handled. Players wanted movie marines. SM fans wanted true scale. This is a fail.

I do love everything about Primaris. Fluff, the sculpt, everything is great except the lack of customization (and why doesn't everything come with a chainsword?)

Personally, I was never really a big fan of Imperium stuff in general, so the fluff of 'THEY WERE SECRETLY CREATED OVER TEN THOUSAND YEARS' isn't any more strange to me than say, GK. (THEY WERE SECRETLY CREATED OVER X YEARS AGO, literally the same plot).

Aggressors have a movement of 5"+1d6 in effect, if you need to get somewhere, as they suffer no penalty to shoot from advancing. Normally they're leaping out of a Repulsor in turn 1 or 2, so that goes up to 8+1d6. They always travel with a powerfist captain in my armies, and so each Aggressor model, even having moved, is expecting to slay 4 Guard a turn in shooting. They also threaten heavier targets with their native 2 fist attacks.

The more I use them, the more I think they're the best single unit in the Primaris range. But then they always either have a ride on my repulsor, or sfts. Footslogging them is possible but they are a very nice target for all your opponent's S5-7 weapons.

Finally, they love running with a chaptermaster - 3 aggressors average 8 or 9 hits on overwatch in a CM's bubble, or 16/17 if they were stationary. From a unit that costs 111pts. I love em.

I love the models, I agree that the plainer look is better, and if you like your Marines blinged-up you can just add it on rather than having to carve and cut it all off. The Intercessors, Hellblasters and Reivers look awesome, Aggressors also good if you ignore the weird Fragstorm Launchers, and the Inceptors are ok I guess. The Repressor looks awful but it's not necessary to have one I guess.

What I'm not too fond of however, is the actual kits. There doesn't seem to be much in terms of customise-ability. They're much harder to reposition or convert than standard Marines.

If they made guardsmen who didn't have giant round shoulder pauldrons and spaceballs bobblehead helmets (to this day I can't see a cadian weapons team without imagining him with crossed eyes saying "I did, thir, he'th my couthin!") theyd be exactly the right size.

At this point, I'm almost convinced that GW is actually sincere about making primaris marines a separate, second marine range.

They are what they appear to be - kiddy marines. The only reason their fluff is basically "theyre marineth but theyre more awethomer" is because that's EXACTLY what appeals to the young kid demographic. Their model range is limited and has all ez-build kits, their models are more "toy sized" than "miniature sized" and their game options are incredibly limited because gw doesnt want to overwhelm kids with choice and make them pick between plasma gun, missile launcher, lascannon, grav gun power sword etc etc etc...they just slap all that gak on everything and make them pay a bunch of points so no matter what you buy you end up with a semblance of a TAC list.

I suppose it remains to be seen whether GW will ever make new regular marine kits, but I can see what kind of market they were aiming for. "Starter pack marines' aimed towards a younger demogaphic, with the "Classic marines" being more aimed towards existing hobbyists who have history with the company.

The biggest swing-and-a-miss honestly is why in the flippity flip don't they have models with chainswords? When I was getting into the hobby at 10, access to chainswords entirely decided what army I was going to play. I got the starter kit, only got one guy with a chainsword, and said "what faction can have only chainswords? Oh, space wolves? I play space wolves then."

The main issue with Primaris Marines is that they appeared 15 years too late. I love the miniatures, and the potential they have, but that's all capped off by the rest of the Space Marine range. It was left unchanged for too long, receiving release after release to expand it, and now it's too much to replace. We're talking every single Space Marine unit, including Chapter specific things like Sanguinary Guard.

Had the transition to the far superior scale happened earlier, there'd be less to replace, and it would be viewed the same way previous renditions of Space Marines were when they were replaced, as all armies experienced.

Their terrible fluff wouldn't exist either.

 Primark G wrote:
Why do you say it is a flip off?

To me it's not so much a flip off, but it is a little frustrating. I've got 50 or so grey hunters, and now I finally see how weird they look. All the threads about proportions of space marines, I understand them. My grey hunters used to look super badass to me, but primaris look so much better. It's been a bit hard to get over.

I'll hop in and agree with some other posters, I dont mind the models or the new scale or new statline of the Primaris marines.

What I dont like is the abysmal lore behind them. We didnt need yet another flavor of "even more elite dudes more elite than the ultraelite Space Marines". They could have done what they did from RT to 2E, or whay GW did with DE in 2010 during 5E, and just said "hey, we are adapting marine models and rules to better fit the existing background". Those instances went over just fine.

Unfortunately most GW lore over the last decade has been absolutely awful, particularly the stuff coming out of the main studio.

Still lame fluff, still lame models or just outright bad models and I wish I could rewind the clock to before Siege of Fenris and redo all the lore they did from there.

Here is the rub - guardsmen will never get any jetbikes - they have to ride lil ponies.

Coming from someone who is starting from scratch after not being in the game/hobby for several years, I like the models. I don't have any of the OG SM's anymore and I'm going Deathwatch this time around so I have a new codex to support the new marine flavor as well -- so I think they are good from a beginner's point of view -- especially with the Primaris models being prevalent in the DI box.

I'm hoping that over time, Primaris will become the main flavor eventually phasing out the tiny Marines (I know this is a sensitive subject to those who are invested in the old style), as I don't plan on getting any of the old school version unless absolutely necessary. I don't play competitively, so I'm not hugely concerned with having a Primaris-only army right now.

The fluff/lore is pretty bad though.....

The 40k lore has always been bad. The stuff that rates as mediocre was stolen from other sources.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
The 40k lore has always been bad. The stuff that rates as mediocre was stolen from other sources.

Nah, the 40k lore usually starts off as bad, then sometimes gets redeemed. The Oldcron lore started off being fairly vague and uninspired, but evolved into decent writing over time as more lore was written. Often the lore that a faction starts with (either from scratch, rewritten as a playable faction, or post-retcon) is fairly brief, and at times one-dimensional. Before “Eisenhorn” the inquisition lacked a lot of character beyond “pseudo-historical groups with specific enemies they focus on.” Many primarchs didn’t have a lot of characterization or personality until the HH series started. Newcrons have been slowly accumulating lore that isn’t a garbage fire of sundry retcons. It feels like Primaris are waiting for a competent writer or two that can find their place in 40k without ignoring half the setting.

I think you mean the Necron lore started off as interesting and different to the other races but devolved into being uninspired. Heavens help Primaris if they get the same.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
The 40k lore has always been bad. The stuff that rates as mediocre was stolen from other sources.

Nah, the 40k lore usually starts off as bad, then sometimes gets redeemed. The Oldcron lore started off being fairly vague and uninspired, but evolved into decent writing over time as more lore was written. Often the lore that a faction starts with (either from scratch, rewritten as a playable faction, or post-retcon) is fairly brief, and at times one-dimensional. Before “Eisenhorn” the inquisition lacked a lot of character beyond “pseudo-historical groups with specific enemies they focus on.” Many primarchs didn’t have a lot of characterization or personality until the HH series started. Newcrons have been slowly accumulating lore that isn’t a garbage fire of sundry retcons. It feels like Primaris are waiting for a competent writer or two that can find their place in 40k without ignoring half the setting.

To be fair, the Oldcron lore was intentionally vague, the absence of information was part of what made them so dangerous. They were mysterious and unknowable. Now theyre just reskinned Tomb Kings. Much the same with the Primarchs, before, they were mythical figures of legendary stature so far removed that only glimpses of them could be known. Now? They come off all too often as cheap charicature or overmuscled egotist with daddy issues.