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2018/05/19 12:13:52
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Stitch Counter
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tneva82 wrote:Why even report this as news? Americans decided they want these over alternatives so it's not even newsworthy.
Agreed. Mass shootings / gun related murder is as American as Baseball and Apple Pie.
This may be news if it happened in another country where it was out of the ordinary because people banned / tightly regulated guns. But it happened in America, where everyone is packing and has been indoctrinated to support a piece of paper scribbled down over two hundred years ago (Totally relevant... not)
The fact people are defending the notion to carry weapons and play John Wayne in the supermarket, and balking at the idea of the NRA being the bad guy says all we need to know really.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 12:34:19
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
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2018/05/19 14:36:30
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Spetulhu wrote:Crispy78 wrote:None of the other methods you've mentioned are as effective as guns. The Boston Marathon bombs, which went off in crowded streets, injured many but only actually killed 3 people. Compared to Santa Fe, or Parkland, or the concert in Vegas, that doesn't seem so bad.
Besides, what with War on Terror and the intelligence operations spawned by it someone buying up materials for building bombs (and checking manuals on the net) is pretty likely to get caught before he's ready. Or even more likely to be contacted by the FBI who let some undercover agent help and egg the suspect on so they can arrest him for terrorism instead of preparing a violent crime...
Guns is much easier.
Thats not really true. Bomb making materials, as well as stuff for making chemical bombs and poisons, can be bought over the counter almost literally everywhere. Sure, if you buy 1000 gallons of ammonia all at once you might attract attention, but if you buy 2-3 gallons at one store, then go the next one, etc... you'll never get found out till you do something with it. Even countries with strict gun laws still allow easy access to the household chemicals that you can use to make some really nasty bombs. And unlike a shooting where the perpetrator can be found quickly, even a sloppy bomber can go weeks if not months before he gets caught. You don't even need to google "How to make a bomb". Some basic high school level chemistry will tell you all you need to know.
The real issue here is why this kid felt the need to go shoot up his school/plant bombs. Not that he had access to the tools.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 14:37:38
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2018/05/19 14:54:52
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not really true. Bomb making materials, as well as stuff for making chemical bombs and poisons, can be bought over the counter almost literally everywhere. Sure, if you buy 1000 gallons of ammonia all at once you might attract attention, but if you buy 2-3 gallons at one store, then go the next one, etc... you'll never get found out till you do something with it. Even countries with strict gun laws still allow easy access to the household chemicals that you can use to make some really nasty bombs..
In which it's argued, presumably with a straight face, that spending thousands of dollars making hundreds of trips to various stores is easier than for example buying a $400 AR15 at a gun show.
Don't forget all that ammonia needs to be converted to ammonium nitrate, by the way. And also once all that's done, you're only halfway there.
If it was really easier, there would be bombings in this country almost every day, doesn't that reason?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 14:57:18
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2018/05/19 15:20:05
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I was not referring to an ammonium nitrate bomb. I was being vague and left out some other ingredients. Best not to get into specifics about making a bomb on the internet.
Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 15:33:09
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2018/05/19 15:44:47
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Grey Templar wrote:
Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
Nope! You don't get to play that card right now. You cannot prove, definitively, that the shooter did not have access to the firearms through his father's neglect or just having given the shooter access to them thinking the shooter "knew better" than to do something like this.
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2018/05/19 15:46:04
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Kanluwen wrote: Grey Templar wrote:
Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
Nope! You don't get to play that card right now. You cannot prove, definitively, that the shooter did not have access to the firearms through his father's neglect or just having given the shooter access to them thinking the shooter "knew better" than to do something like this.
Having possession of someone else’s guns without their explicit permission is the definition of a stolen gun.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2018/05/19 15:51:10
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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He very well could have had implicit permission to have access to the guns. You don't need express permission.
Of course the father is going to say that the shooter didn't have permission to have access to the guns regardless of the truth.
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2018/05/19 15:54:47
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Grey Templar wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Grey Templar wrote:
Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
Nope! You don't get to play that card right now. You cannot prove, definitively, that the shooter did not have access to the firearms through his father's neglect or just having given the shooter access to them thinking the shooter "knew better" than to do something like this.
Having possession of someone else’s guns without their explicit permission is the definition of a stolen gun.
So when someone in my family uses my car, without my explicit permission, but has access to it and used it--is that fitting "the definition of a stolen car"?
You don't get to play this garbage. The gun might be "stolen" in that the shooter had it without explicit permission, but if the shooter was given access to it by the father--you don't get to use the term "stolen gun". He had access to it, he used it. End of story. "Stolen gun" is an attempt to shift blame for someone who legally could not purchase a firearm to have obtained one without needing to use illegal methods to purchase one.
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2018/05/19 16:01:29
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Until we have evidence that the dad gave permission for the kid to use the guns, they are stolen guns. The base assumption is always that you can’t use someone else’s property without permission.
And yes, if you don’t give a family member explicit permission to use a car and later the cops pull them over and can’t get ahold of you to confirm they have permission to have your car they could be arrested for car theft.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 16:02:29
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2018/05/19 16:02:49
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Grey Templar wrote: Sure, if you buy 1000 gallons of ammonia all at once you might attract attention, but if you buy 2-3 gallons at one store, then go the next one, etc... you'll never get found out till you do something with it..
Santa Fe is a city in Galveston County, Texas, United States. It is named for the Santa Fe Railroad which runs through the town alongside State Highway 6. The population of Santa Fe at the 2010 census was 12,222.
Sure no one there whatsoever will notice one 17 year old buying 1000 gallons of ammonia.
" my hobby is cleaning bathrooms "
Perhaps we could turn this into a modern remake /remix of that old Johnny Cash song about building a Cadillac.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 16:05:04
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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2018/05/19 16:04:35
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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??? I said he would be noticed if he purchased 1000 gallons.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2018/05/19 16:09:31
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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No you said he'd get away with it if he did the buying in multiple places.
Something that seems unlikely for a 17 year old with no significant income in a place that consists of
12,222 people and 4,564 households residing in the city.
There were 4,583 households out of which 36.8% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.7% were married couples, 12.2% had a female householder with no husband present, and 23.7% were non-families. 27.0% of all households were made up of individuals and 19.3% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.67 and the average family size was 3.03.
..
this gets more like that Chris Rock sketch about bullet control by the moment.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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2018/05/19 16:10:40
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Really, using pipe bombs on a 'rampage' is stupid, IEDs are pretty bad at killing people compared to guns. If you were willing to go in and shoot people anyways, bringing pipe bombs is largely unnecessary.
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2018/05/19 16:11:36
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Grey Templar wrote:Until we have evidence that the dad gave permission for the kid to use the guns, they are stolen guns. The base assumption is always that you can’t use someone else’s property without permission.
And the base assumption is always that people have access to someone else's property when they live in the same home and that when the firearms have been claimed to be for home defense, they tend to be secured improperly.
And yes, if you don’t give a family member explicit permission to use a car and later the cops pull them over and can’t get ahold of you to confirm they have permission to have your car they could be arrested for car theft.
This isn't even remotely true. It requires a specific set of circumstances for a cop to even think to try to confirm that a family member doesn't actually have permission to use your car.
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2018/05/19 16:34:20
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Wulfmar wrote:tneva82 wrote:Why even report this as news? Americans decided they want these over alternatives so it's not even newsworthy.
Agreed. Mass shootings / gun related murder is as American as Baseball and Apple Pie.
This may be news if it happened in another country where it was out of the ordinary because people banned / tightly regulated guns. But it happened in America, where everyone is packing and has been indoctrinated to support a piece of paper scribbled down over two hundred years ago (Totally relevant... not)
The fact people are defending the notion to carry weapons and play John Wayne in the supermarket, and balking at the idea of the NRA being the bad guy says all we need to know really.
I agree with that.
However it should also be noted that this is a social issue with an increasingly pronounced old/young-rural/urban-white/black-conservative/progressive-lots/none divide.
The demographics of the situation are moving more and more towards the gun control side of the argument.
Every massacre pushes things a bit further.
I think the NRA should be far less enthusiastic about pushing their "All Assault Guns, All The Time" agenda. There is a risk that the gathering reaction will go too far in the opposite direction when the dam finally overflows.
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2018/05/19 16:48:56
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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reds8n wrote:No you said he'd get away with it if he did the buying in multiple places.
Something that seems unlikely for a 17 year old with no significant income in a place that consists of
12,222 people and 4,564 households residing in the city.
There were 4,583 households out of which 36.8% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.7% were married couples, 12.2% had a female householder with no husband present, and 23.7% were non-families. 27.0% of all households were made up of individuals and 19.3% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.67 and the average family size was 3.03.
..
this gets more like that Chris Rock sketch about bullet control by the moment.
By my count there are 19 hardware stores in Santa Fe. Assuming we need that thousand gallon number given, I'd have to think that the very first trip to Home Depot with a cart of 52 gallons of ammonia would result in a visit by the local constabulary to ask how that meth trailer or whatever is working out.
Grey Templar wrote:I was not referring to an ammonium nitrate bomb. I was being vague and left out some other ingredients. Best not to get into specifics about making a bomb on the internet.
Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
See, you did a thing here you do sometimes and this is - I say this with no malice and all sincerity - this is an opportunity to grow. Specifically, you said something not super well thought out, which we all do. However, you're now doubling down on it, and dying on this hill which you made. It's not a good hill!
1.) You can't say it's easier to make a bomb with ammonia, admit you need an enormous amount, and then slink off with avoiding specifics. I doubt you're going to find any argument we shouldn't post bomb recipes on Dakka Dakka, but I also think maybe you didn't know that ammonia needed to be converted to ammonium nitrate and that's not simple for a amateur to do, or that even when that's done you still need other now-difficult stuff to acquire. So I feel like you're kind of handwaving it away disingenuously a bit. But that's not really important for the other reasons, anyway.
2.) You're ignoring the point that if explosives actually were trivial to acquire and manufacture then you'd see a lot more people get blown up then shot in the US. You manifestly do not. I suspect the number of shooting homicides vs homicides by IEDs or other explosives in the US is at least 10,0000 to 1 in favor of guns.
3.) You're also ignoring that in this specific shooting that we are talking about right now, the killer used firearms and tried to use a variety of explosives. His explosives were either inert or he wasn't able to deploy them successfully. I mean, this is a dude who went for it and clearly found guns to be substantially easier to acquire and use, right ?
I will agree that you can definitely make some simple, crude explosives fairly simply - I mean, you can buy tannerite over the counter with no records in some places.
However, I think your assertion that assembling and using the quality and quantity of explosives for a mass killing is easier than just getting a firearm - in a country with like, 300 million guns - is wrong.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/19 16:55:26
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2018/05/19 17:12:57
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ouze wrote: Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not really true. Bomb making materials, as well as stuff for making chemical bombs and poisons, can be bought over the counter almost literally everywhere. Sure, if you buy 1000 gallons of ammonia all at once you might attract attention, but if you buy 2-3 gallons at one store, then go the next one, etc... you'll never get found out till you do something with it. Even countries with strict gun laws still allow easy access to the household chemicals that you can use to make some really nasty bombs..
In which it's argued, presumably with a straight face, that spending thousands of dollars making hundreds of trips to various stores is easier than for example buying a $400 AR15 at a gun show.
Don't forget all that ammonia needs to be converted to ammonium nitrate, by the way. And also once all that's done, you're only halfway there.
If it was really easier, there would be bombings in this country almost every day, doesn't that reason?
There was a time when bombings were commonplace in the US. The bombings didn’t stop because we passed a bevy of new laws that made it impossible to build bombs they stopped happening because society evolved and people stopped wanting to commit bombings. The politics of the Weather Underground didn’t change but the methodology did.
We need to work towards fixing society so we stop producing people who want to commit mass murder in the first place.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough
In a single eighteen-month period during 1971 and 1972 the FBI counted an amazing 2,500 bombings on American soil, almost five a day. Because they were typically detonated late at night, few caused serious injury, leading to a kind of grudging public acceptance. The deadliest underground attack of the decade, in fact, killed all of four people, in the January 1975 bombing of a Wall Street restaurant. News accounts rarely carried any expression or indication of public outrage.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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2018/05/19 19:19:23
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
We'll find out soon enough eh.
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Grey Templar wrote:Spetulhu wrote:Crispy78 wrote:None of the other methods you've mentioned are as effective as guns. The Boston Marathon bombs, which went off in crowded streets, injured many but only actually killed 3 people. Compared to Santa Fe, or Parkland, or the concert in Vegas, that doesn't seem so bad.
Besides, what with War on Terror and the intelligence operations spawned by it someone buying up materials for building bombs (and checking manuals on the net) is pretty likely to get caught before he's ready. Or even more likely to be contacted by the FBI who let some undercover agent help and egg the suspect on so they can arrest him for terrorism instead of preparing a violent crime...
Guns is much easier.
Thats not really true. Bomb making materials, as well as stuff for making chemical bombs and poisons, can be bought over the counter almost literally everywhere. Sure, if you buy 1000 gallons of ammonia all at once you might attract attention, but if you buy 2-3 gallons at one store, then go the next one, etc... you'll never get found out till you do something with it. Even countries with strict gun laws still allow easy access to the household chemicals that you can use to make some really nasty bombs. And unlike a shooting where the perpetrator can be found quickly, even a sloppy bomber can go weeks if not months before he gets caught. You don't even need to google "How to make a bomb". Some basic high school level chemistry will tell you all you need to know.
The real issue here is why this kid felt the need to go shoot up his school/plant bombs. Not that he had access to the tools.
See, people you say "they'll just do something else!", but I must have missed the regular bombing campaigns and mass-stabbings conducted by mentally ill people elsewhere in the world where they can't get guns & ammo at the local supermarket. There have been bombings and mass-stabbings before, certainly, but they're not an occurrence with "oh, must be Friday again" regularity. And all this "oh well he used bombs so gun control is pointless" stuff would sound a lot less insincere and opportunistic if it was even remotely a regular part of the ongoing epidemic of mass-shootings, rather than an oddity.
You can "mental health, just do something else anyway, thoughts & prayers what a tragedy couldn't be helped, guns don't kill people people kill people" forever if you like, but no matter how much you use stereotypes to dump your problems on the mentally ill(who are orders of magnitude more likely to be victims of crime of all sorts than perpetrators of it) you're not going to fix anything like that.
I mean, surely if this whole thing was actually a "mental health problem not a gun problem", all the perpetrators of these massacres would be making successful insanity pleas and going to mental health facilities rather than prisons, right?
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I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal |
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2018/05/19 22:42:42
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ouze wrote:[.) You're ignoring the point that if explosives actually were trivial to acquire and manufacture then you'd see a lot more people get blown up then shot in the US. You manifestly do not. I suspect the number of shooting homicides vs homicides by IEDs or other explosives in the US is at least 10,0000 to 1 in favor of guns.
You're kind of right. Over the last 50 years it's more like a 200 to 1 ratio. Automatically Appended Next Post: Yodhrin wrote:[no matter how much you use stereotypes to dump your problems on the mentally ill(who are orders of magnitude more likely to be victims of crime of all sorts than perpetrators of it) you're not going to fix anything like that.
I mean, surely if this whole thing was actually a "mental health problem not a gun problem", all the perpetrators of these massacres would be making successful insanity pleas and going to mental health facilities rather than prisons, right?
That's a bit of a red herring/strawman. Yes, you are correct. Mentally ill people are more likely to be the victim of a crime than the perpetrator. That's horrible and a huge problem, but it's a whole separate issue. The thing being noted is whether or not mentally ill people are more likely than the non mentally ill to be a perpetrator of violence.
https://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/1000-homicides.html
There is evidence that people with mental illnesses that aren't being treated for it account for about 10% of homicides.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 23:39:56
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2018/05/19 23:44:29
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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2018/05/19 23:57:13
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gotta say, I tried reading that, but it was super hard to get past the text-rambling.
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2018/05/20 01:30:41
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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skyth wrote:http://www.stonekettle.com/2018/05/bang-bang-crazy-part-14-cowardice-of.html
This was actually a good read. I'm going through his other articles.
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Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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2018/05/20 03:10:31
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Crispy78 wrote: ZergSmasher wrote:The fact that they found bombs as well as guns should be eye-opening for all the anti-gun people. If we take away all the guns, criminals who can't get them on the black market will start using bombs, knives, clubs, cars and trucks, or even their bare hands to kill people. It's a mental health problem, not a gun problem.
None of the other methods you've mentioned are as effective as guns. The Boston Marathon bombs, which went off in crowded streets, injured many but only actually killed 3 people. Compared to Santa Fe, or Parkland, or the concert in Vegas, that doesn't seem so bad.
The Oklahoma City bombing victims beg to differ. Bomb attacks can be even more devastating than shootings, potentially. Granted, it would be harder to stockpile materials and such to make such a bomb now without getting caught, but still...
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2018/05/20 03:27:21
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Humorless Arbite
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ZergSmasher wrote:Crispy78 wrote: ZergSmasher wrote:The fact that they found bombs as well as guns should be eye-opening for all the anti-gun people. If we take away all the guns, criminals who can't get them on the black market will start using bombs, knives, clubs, cars and trucks, or even their bare hands to kill people. It's a mental health problem, not a gun problem.
None of the other methods you've mentioned are as effective as guns. The Boston Marathon bombs, which went off in crowded streets, injured many but only actually killed 3 people. Compared to Santa Fe, or Parkland, or the concert in Vegas, that doesn't seem so bad.
The Oklahoma City bombing victims beg to differ. Bomb attacks can be even more devastating than shootings, potentially. Granted, it would be harder to stockpile materials and such to make such a bomb now without getting caught, but still...
And the largest number of school victims in any school attack in American was done with a bomb, back in 1927 I think. 1927 You know, when you could buy an actual machine gun at a hardware store. Automatically Appended Next Post: John Prins wrote:Really, using pipe bombs on a 'rampage' is stupid, IEDs are pretty bad at killing people compared to guns. If you were willing to go in and shoot people anyways, bringing pipe bombs is largely unnecessary.
I have a fair number of veteran friends who would disagree with that statement. That IEDs are bad at killing people compared to small arms.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 03:34:00
Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
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2018/05/20 06:57:35
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44186989
Authorities said two apparent improvised explosive devices he brought to the scene turned out to be harmless.
The Santa Fe High School shooting suspect told police he spared certain students he liked "so he could have his story told", a court document shows.
...
.. I think everyone has already worked out that you're a witch fella.
I read some stuff elsewhere that he targeted/went after an ex girlfriend/similar.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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2018/05/20 14:37:08
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Prestor Jon wrote: Ouze wrote:If it was really easier, there would be bombings in this country almost every day, doesn't that reason?
There was a time when bombings were commonplace in the US. The bombings didn’t stop because we passed a bevy of new laws that made it impossible to build bombs they stopped happening because society evolved and people stopped wanting to commit bombings. The politics of the Weather Underground didn’t change but the methodology did.
We need to work towards fixing society so we stop producing people who want to commit mass murder in the first place.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4501670/bombings-of-america-burrough
In a single eighteen-month period during 1971 and 1972 the FBI counted an amazing 2,500 bombings on American soil, almost five a day. Because they were typically detonated late at night, few caused serious injury, leading to a kind of grudging public acceptance. The deadliest underground attack of the decade, in fact, killed all of four people, in the January 1975 bombing of a Wall Street restaurant. News accounts rarely carried any expression or indication of public outrage.
First, thanks for posting that. I knew the Weatherman had conducting bombings, but I had no idea there were so many.
That being said, the Weathermen mostly seemed to have used dynamite. in 1970, you could walk into a hardware store and buy dynamite. In 1971, dynamite became regulated under the ATF. I'm not sure that I buy that people became a lot more peaceful instead of dynamite becoming significantly harder to get over the next few years. I suppose it could be a little of both, as the war in Vietnam wound down and removed a lot of the reason some of the extremist groups existed.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2018/05/20 14:55:46
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooter-20180519-story.html
So his first target was a girl that turned him down. This is getting eerily familiar.
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2018/05/20 22:00:23
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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So... this is kinda sorta on topic in this thread.
I was talking to my old High School buddy about this school shooting (and violence in general) and he said something to the effect that:
Hey... do you remember when we were High School freshmans, that just about every month, we'd hear about other St. Louis HS schools having shooting/stabbing/drug/gangs near monthly?
My HS years are '91-95.
He's right... I do recall that. Not to the level of "mass shooting" ala Santa Fe/Parkland, but kid were brandishing pistols... attacks with knives, brass knuckles and chains.
Then... guess what happened the next year? Yup, St. Louis public schools secured the doors and added security checkpoints (metal detectors) with armed personells (PD and security peeps)... and things like that plummeted. They wouldn't let me keep my chain wallet tho.... :(
I'm trying to remember the last time a shooting occurred on school grounds in St. Louis. (I've even googled for articles... and not seeing any other than events near schools).
I guess my point is this: has anyone noticed this? I guess... I'm still surprised that there are schools who are not "hardened" from mass shooting....
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2018/05/20 22:25:47
Subject: Re:Sante Fe shooting
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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whembly wrote:So... this is kinda sorta on topic in this thread.
I was talking to my old High School buddy about this school shooting (and violence in general) and he said something to the effect that:
Hey... do you remember when we were High School freshmans, that just about every month, we'd hear about other St. Louis HS schools having shooting/stabbing/drug/gangs near monthly?
My HS years are '91-95.
He's right... I do recall that. Not to the level of "mass shooting" ala Santa Fe/Parkland, but kid were brandishing pistols... attacks with knives, brass knuckles and chains.
Then... guess what happened the next year? Yup, St. Louis public schools secured the doors and added security checkpoints (metal detectors) with armed personells (PD and security peeps)... and things like that plummeted. They wouldn't let me keep my chain wallet tho.... :(
I'm trying to remember the last time a shooting occurred on school grounds in St. Louis. (I've even googled for articles... and not seeing any other than events near schools).
I guess my point is this: has anyone noticed this? I guess... I'm still surprised that there are schools who are not "hardened" from mass shooting....
My guess would be that "hardening" in the same manner would not be as effective because the nature of the acts are different. The stuff referred to from the early 90's and whatnot largely seems to be small concealable stuff being pulled out in relatively spontaneous interpersonal conflicts or targeted gang attacks, the kind of stuff that can be relatively easily controlled by actively keeping weapons out through checkpoints and the like. It's an altogether different issue when someone shows up equipped and intending to engage in a general attack on the facility, much like the Pulse nightclub, I'd imagine they'd attack security first and waltz on through, and may then be able to work with constrained entry/exit points.
Also, there's lots of schools that just cannot be "hardened" in such a manner. Thinking back to my high school, it's a large campus with dozens of buildings built more along the lines of a university, and a largely open layout, just about every high school in southern California is built like that. They had/have gates to keep people out of the central concourse/quads, but there were like 8 or 10 of those and they wouldn't stop someone from getting into half the buildings on campus (which are either unlocked during school hours and through which they could then get into the central concourse, or are expansion trailer classrooms), those gates are basically to keep bored people out after dark.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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2018/05/20 23:57:46
Subject: Sante Fe shooting
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Dakka Veteran
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https://youtu.be/gA-4QNVkH2g
Not sure I did this right. If I did what do you all think. Keep in mind this guy is an NRA spokesman.
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