Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
How do you guys feel about the aesthetics of the new films? For me, Disney has gotten it mostly right. One of my (many) bugbears with the prequels is that they just don’t match up with the “later” movies, due to CGI and the “cosmetically advanced prequel” conundrum. But the new trilogy and the stories movies fit in much better looks wise. I’m interested in gak like this you see.
The sequel technology should look better since the time of the Republic is considered a "Golden Age" and the aesthetics must match that. As the time progresses, the technology and look get cruder until we get to the time fo the Empire, and it is all brutish and angular. In theory, the further we move from that "Golden Age" thematically and actually timewise, the less advanced and streamlined things should look. If we start moving closer to the "Golden Age" of the Republic thematically, thent he technology should also become more aesthetically pleasing and artistic.
Someone mentioned the Droids cartoon, and I honestly do not remember it enough to comment. However, it got me thinking about other Star Wars stuff I would rate higher than some of my lower picks, I think I rate this higher than TLJ and TPM....
... at least I was entertained through the whole thing and couldn't wait to see what happened next.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 19:35:20
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing
Padme's shuttle is the really problematic bit of tech from the prequels, as its got a lot of that "My First Texture Map" reflective surface that was all the rage at the time. It's funny people hate on the Naboo fighter for being CGI when a lot of it was an actual prop, but a lot of it is just that the aquatic style of Naboo felt very alien to the series. Had the fighters themselves had a good showing I think people would have warmed up to them faster, but as Anakin and Jar-Jar's joint button mashing victory they didn't really get a chance to feel like part of something as memorably exciting as the X-Wings.
LunarSol wrote: Padme's shuttle is the really problematic bit of tech from the prequels, as its got a lot of that "My First Texture Map" reflective surface that was all the rage at the time. It's funny people hate on the Naboo fighter for being CGI when a lot of it was an actual prop, but a lot of it is just that the aquatic style of Naboo felt very alien to the series. Had the fighters themselves had a good showing I think people would have warmed up to them faster, but as Anakin and Jar-Jar's joint button mashing victory they didn't really get a chance to feel like part of something as memorably exciting as the X-Wings.
You think so too eh? Yeah I agree. Having said that, I do like the design of the Naboo fighter. It's just my own opinion but it actually manages to look a little bit more old fashioned than say, an x-wing. Like comparing a prop fighter of the 40s to a jet fighter of the 60s/70s. The leather uniforms of the pilots helped out in that regard. But then they went and ruined that feel by making the droid socket much better than the latter x wing one (can easily lift up R2 from below by itself, when the latter model had to have the droid lowered in by crane). You know what one of my favorite prequel era ships is? That red shuttle Qui-gon and Obi Wan arrived in. Now that one matches the ship designs of the original trilogy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 21:07:42
LunarSol wrote: Padme's shuttle is the really problematic bit of tech from the prequels, as its got a lot of that "My First Texture Map" reflective surface that was all the rage at the time. It's funny people hate on the Naboo fighter for being CGI when a lot of it was an actual prop, but a lot of it is just that the aquatic style of Naboo felt very alien to the series. Had the fighters themselves had a good showing I think people would have warmed up to them faster, but as Anakin and Jar-Jar's joint button mashing victory they didn't really get a chance to feel like part of something as memorably exciting as the X-Wings.
You think so too eh? Yeah I agree. Having said that, I do like the design of the Naboo fighter. It's just my own opinion but it actually manages to look a little bit more old fashioned than say, an x-wing. Like comparing a prop fighter of the 40s to a jet fighter of the 60s/70s. The leather uniforms of the pilots helped out in that regard. But then they went and ruined that feel by making the droid socket much better than the latter x wing one (can easily lift up R2 from below by itself, when the latter model had to have the droid lowered in by crane). You know what one of my favorite prequel era ships is? That red shuttle Qui-gon and Obi Wan arrived in. Now that one matches the ship designs of the original trilogy.
Oh don't get me started on the N-1's droid socket. Did you know R2 droids have a telescoping head that can extend the dome up twice the height of the body? They do after TPM, because Georgy Boy didn't want a proper droid socket fouling up the smexy lines on his pretty hotrod fighter, so he insisted the designer remove the "leg slot" cutouts from the side, so the only way for an R2 to actually fit into the damn thing is to have the main body down in the belly of the fighter behind the chair with its head up on a periscope...
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
The Naboo N-1 shape was inspired by the airbrush used by one of the artists (which was chrome and yellow).
The royal starship WAS a physical model - the chrome effect was from reflective mylar stretched over a frame (Adam Savage was one of the modelmakers and has recounted this aspect).
It wasn't a "shuttle" that Obiwan and Qui-gon arrived on. It was a republic Consular cruiser (Consular ships were that red-ochre colour) with a mission variable pod (the bulge below the main spine and cockpit/bridge was modular and could be swapped out and also served as a life pod for any ambassadorial passengers). It was also built at the same shipyards that would later produce the CR-90s. The design inspiration for it came from the concept art library and was extrapolated on by the artists working on the prequels. This is true of ALL the SW stuff since the prequels. Rebels and Clone wars used a lot of unused concept art for SW with a new spin and polish.
I can't rank any of the movies above any of the others - because I don't think any of them are particularly outstanding in the group. Sure, Empire had more good moments, but there were good bits in ALL of the ones I've seen (and I haven't ever seen the ewok ones bar Jedi) and all those good buts cut together would make a pretty kick-arse movie.
On the plus side, there were more good bits from them than there have been in ALL the marvel movies over the last 4 decades (but marvel doesn't hold a candle to 2000AD).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/03 02:28:54
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
Ok, I wasn’t sure whether to do this, not really considering myself a Star Wars fan. However, here’s how I would rank the ones I’ve seen, with scores, from best to worst.
The Empire Strikes Back 8/10. It’s still got the charm of the original, but coming a few years after it feels like it grew up a little bit with its audience. All of the original cast give their best performances in this one. It’s also the only one actually improved by being “special editioned”.
Rogue One 7/10. A solid war film which, at times manages to conjure up the same kind of tense, excitement as the old classic action, adventure war films such as Where Eagles Dare or The Guns of Naveronne (I may have horribly misspelt that). It’s not in their league, but has that same feel. Seeing Tarkin again was a nostalgic joy (although he seems to have grown about 5 inches).
Star Wars (A New Hope) 7/10 for the theatrical release, 5/10 for the Special Edition. It’s still a lot of fun, but I find young Luke to be a totally insufferable, whiny brat and Solo the only likeable character. The acting is ropey in places, but it’s a good story and still holds up. The Special Edition adds unfunny slapstick gags, undoes Solo’s character development and adds the completely unnecessary Jabba scene (which only repeats exposition we’ve just heard from Greedo).
Return of the Jedi 6/10. This where the cracks begin to show. This where Star Wars says, “Forget growing up with our core audience. Let’s sell toys!”. Ewoks, terrible dialogue between the heroes and slave Leia create a film that makes me cringe through a lot of it. I would score it lower if it wasn’t for the brilliant climactic scenes between Luke, Vader and the Emperor (the fourth best Emperor in sci fi history btw, behind The Master of Mankind, Ming the Merciless and Dune Wormboy Emperor Thing”, which were (or should have been) a fitting end to the story.
The Force Awakens 6/10. I liked it. I liked the characters. I don’t see the point of it. It really adds nothing and just retreads old ground. Fairly charismatic young heroes and grumpy, old Harrison Ford team up to fight bad guys who’re just like the old bad guys. I’ve watched it about 4 times, enjoyed it but still can’t remember a lot of the plot. Either I’m getting old or it’s just not that memorable.
The Last Jedi 5/10. I’m genuinely on the fence about this one. After seeing it twice, I don’t know whether I like it or not. Some of the best visuals in any Star Wars film, but a terrible plot. New characters that fail to make you care what happens to them. I thought the opening scene with the bombers was fantastic (I’m willing to suspend disbelief from a cool scene). I thought it was a shame that Grace (?) the bomber pilot didn’t survive to become a main character. Without a single line of dialogue she still managed to convince me she was one of the best actors in the whole movie.
Attack of the Clones 3/10. The best of the prequels (which is like saying the best kind of poop to accidentally step in). It’s the one I hated the least would be a better description. Turns out Luke’s dad was an insufferable, whiny brat too. Some okay action linked by dull scenes of actors standing in front of green screens, spouting boring exposition.
The Phantom Menace 2/10. The two most boring Jedi in the galaxy team up with a racist cartoon character and a queen from a planet which seems to think electing teenage girls to be heads of state is an effective form of government, against the background of a trade war. I think 2 out of 10 is generous and entirely due to Darth Maul, who is undeniably cool.
Revenge of the Sith 1/10. I’m giving this 1 out of 10 because if I gave it 0 that would mean I’d have actually used an 11 point scale ... which feels wrong. I love film as a medium. I watch a lot of films. This is only the second time I’ve wanted to walk out because I was bored. I didn’t walk out because I was with a friend who seemed to be enjoying it. It’s like a 2 hour ILM demo reel masquerading as a movie. It’s the only film ive seen where I wanted the action scenes to be over quicker because they were actually more boring than the dull, badly written exposition.
So there you have it. I’ve seen a grand total of 9 Star Wars films and they’re a really mixed bag. They range from the really good, to the truly terrible. A bit like pretty much every other long running film franchise. I can forgive poor film making if the result is fun (The Pirates of the Caribbean films are a guilty pleasure of mine ... yes I know!”, but Star Wars at its worst commits the cardinal sin of being boring. Star Wars at its best is a joy.
I’m still optimistic that Disney can make some more good Star Wars movies, if they can find the right formula.
insaniak wrote: I don't think I could rank them all individually, since they're such a mixed bag, and my reasons for liking each are different as a result.
But I would go with ESB on the top, because it's awesome, and because of the original trilogy is the least damaged by George's Special Editionising.
Then 'Group 2' would include ANH, TFA, TLJ and Rogue 1.
Group 3 would include RotJ and the prequels and Ewok movies.
The Christmas Special is best forgotten.
You rate TLJ in group 1 and place RoTJ with the prequels? I know this is an opinion but...do you actually like Starwars?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: I don't hate the Ewoks, either. But I do think they are totally inappropriate in RotJ.
They are a random indigenous population. How could you call them inappropriate?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/04 16:05:43
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
They’re the start of the path that lead to Jar Jar Binks. Ok, Star Wars had always been aimed at children, but in the same way that WW2 and G.I Joe toys had. The Ewoks however were something else. They’re Saturday morning cartoon characters, more like the smurfs or the gummi bears, and I don’t think they really fit in with the rest of the movie.
Had it been Wookiees instead, that would been a different story.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/04 20:56:58
Future War Cultist wrote: They’re the start of the path that lead to Jar Jar Binks. Ok, Star Wars had always been aimed at children, but in the same way that G.I Joe had. The Ewoks however were something else. They’re Saturday morning cartoon characters, like the smurfs or the gummi bears, and I don’t think they really fit in with the rest of the movie.
Had it been Wookiees instead, that would been a different story.
Well, they DO eat people, and the movie never tried to hide that fact. They look cute, but they’re deadly!!
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
1. Return of the Jedi 2. Rogue One. 3. A New Hope. 4. Empire Strikes Back. 5. Attack of the Clones. 6. Solo. 7. A New Hope 2: Hope Harder. 8. The Phantom Menace. 9. The Clone Wars*. 10. Star Trek 5. 11. Star Ship Troopers 2. 12. Superman 4: The Quest for Peace. 13. X-Men Origins: Wolverine 14. Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure 15. Ewoks: The Battle for Endor 16. The Star Wars Holiday Special ... ... ... 499,997. Birdemic 499,998. Birdemic 2. 499,999. The Room. 500,000. The Last Jedi.
That about covers it.
*This one is a hard one to place as it is a movie, but really it's part of the TV show. I mean, it doesn't even start at the beginning of that particular battle. I believe that, chronologically, the Clone Wars series' first episode is the first episode of Season 3. It was weird.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:07:34
Yeah, the chronology in Season 3 was a good bit wobbly. Confused the heck out of me when a dead bloke was wandering around, and nobody was freaking out, or even commenting on it.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
i don't think they match the emotional tenor of the rest of the film.
Were they the best choice? No. I agree with that. However - I think the idea here is the rebellion didn't get to pick their allies here. They stumbled upon them and made best with what they could. I'm not going to let something like teddy bear people ruin a great movie though. It's weird and it's silly. The point is the group that went to the endor moon did not seek these Ewoks out - they were captured and nearly eaten by them. Then they recruited them. It was probably a ploy to sell toys and make kids laugh. Heck - when I was a kid it made me laugh. It didn't bring the movie down for me at all. I can just look at it like a stylistic choice I would have made differently. The story doesn't suffer from it. If they were wookies it could have gone the exact same way. Plus don't forget - weird aliens was part of the appeal of starwars.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/05 16:29:03
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Agreed. I've said this for years -- RotJ is a preview of what the prequel trilogy would be. Not coincidentally, George Lucas apparently 'ghost-directed' RotJ.
1. Star Wars - This one is just a fun and pretty original (to me) space adventure. I really like it as a film and it has a tight structure and is a really easy watch. 2. Empire Strikes Back - Probably just being contrarian by not putting this first, but I think it actually leans heavily on what is established in the first film for it's emotional weight. 3. The Force Awakens - Another pretty solid space romp, let down by not really having much in the way of originality at this point and also relying too heavily on Abrams mystery box nonsense. (There is a literal mystery box in one scene). 4. Return of the Jedi - Some great scenes, some terrible scenes, overall a bit of an extreme mixed bag with some structural problems. The ending, with Vader's redemption, was enough to save the movie, and it is a good enough cap for the original trilogy. Dose ewoks tho. 5. The Last Jedi - very similar to RotJ to me, some terrible scenes like Canto Bite, the whole chase premise which makes no sense (why did the First Order not lightspeed some ships in front of the fleeing rebel fleet and box them in? The technobabble scenes were also crap.). Some great scenes (I like anything with Mark Hamil in this movie, particularly the last confrontation and all the island stuff, and Rey facing off against Snope with Ren is awesome.) On the whole an enjoyable movie, but pretty deeply flawed. 6. Rogue One - it was okay but I did not really like any of the characters or care too much about their struggle since it was clear they would succeed. The ending was ballsy, but aside from that, a bit of a meh from me. But not a bad film. 7. Revenge of the Sith - the best of the prequels and I think a reasonably enjoyable romp, let down by the general issues from the prequels bleeding into everything and just being too long. Also Anakin is terrible and the movies being about him is a critical flaw. 8. The Phantom Menace - I don't totally hate this like most people do: some fun ideas, some terrible ideas, bound together in a kind of souless and poorly acted mess of a film. 9. Attack of the Clones - Boring, and almost physically painful to watch now.
If I look at Star Wars as a saga, I think it is pretty over rated in the popular imagination. I like 2 of them a lot, I think another 3 of them are okay, and the remaining films are mediocre to bad. Marvel superhero movies get a much harder time and as far as I am concerned their ratio of hits to misses is not very good. And I am not even someone who dislikes the new Star Wars! If I hated TFA and TLJ as much as some fans do, I would be questioning whether I am a fan at all if I only really love 2 or 3 films out of 9 (or 10 I suppose if you count Solo, but apparently no one has gone to see that one).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/09 20:36:44
Da Boss wrote: I would be questioning whether I am a fan at all if I only really love 2 or 3 films out of 9 (or 10 I suppose if you count Solo, but apparently no one has gone to see that one).
There's (a lot) more to Star Wars than just the films. During the fallow years of the early 90s I was reading the novels and buying RPG sourcebooks because I wanted to know so much more about the galaxy.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
