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 Mr Morden wrote:
It did say that in inital codex and then as I said earlier they introduced a female pilot in the companion novel .

I don't remember it saying that - would you happen to remember the page (in the Codex)?

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
A real non-issue in my eyes since you never see the pilots. It's a bit like mentioning that there are female baneblade crew members. Ok? So what? Tbh it hadn't been something I'd considered, given the whole medieval nobility angle they were taking.

Well they are now making pilot models - well one so far but FW may make more

I do like the new video.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
It did say that in inital codex and then as I said earlier they introduced a female pilot in the companion novel .

I don't remember it saying that - would you happen to remember the page (in the Codex)?

The very first thin Codex - which went much much more into the society of the Knight Worlds - page 8

When he is old enough, a son of the household who is designated to become a Noble is fitted with the sacred neural sockets

page 16

All Nobles have a high born consort, it being considered vital that the Noble has sons to inherit their name and titles and daughters to marry as consorts to marry as consorts.....

It was quite an interesting read and as a counterpoint they talk about the power and influence of the consorts, I do however like that its now an noble scion of a house, so it will depend on the son or daughter - if they are worthy.

fe40k wrote:
No offense - but why is everyone so concerned about the lore changing?

Get over it.

Thats some top notch thread reading going on there.

I've only skimmed through the so far but from what I can see they don't really make it a huge deal whether the pilot is male or female. They just simply refer to the pilots accolades as him or her and even then, it doesn't really matter too much. It's inclusion without making it a thing if that makes sense and I kinda like that.

 Ouze wrote:

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:But the lack of hate in this thread is clearly not enough to stop some budding virtue signallers.

You mean stuff like this, right?

Phobosftw wrote:As long as it isn`t part of some forced, poorly written SJW political propaganda, it`s all good..

How is this virtue signaling again?

The SJW virus is REAL

THEY DESTROYED STAR WARS, the comics industry has been hit hard, we got gamergate, and let`s not forget the state of western universities atm, oh also; CANADA!

Do not taze me bro..

Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

This is a wargaming forum where one paints the miniatures. How else would one discuss the different color palettes, if one didn't have words for different shades?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

Gatekeeping what skin colour qualifies as a PoC is important. Otherwise how will we know when the hobby is sufficiently diverse?

 Sim-Life wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

Gatekeeping what skin colour qualifies as a PoC is important. Otherwise how will we know when the hobby is sufficiently diverse?

Take that gak elsewhere dude

Let’s not let this thread degenerate into yet another alt right and SJW off please

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It makes sense that there are women just as capable as men at piloting a knight.

Allegedly the ritual of bonding prevented women from becoming Imperial Knight pilots. Glad to see that was walked back.

Now, what I REALLY want is another pilot like Sir Hekhtor, only it is a woman instead.

The great thing about the IoM is its aversion to reason and sticking to dogma from a long dead age, maybe a high ranking Tech-Priest crowbarred the 'no gurls' idea post-HH and everyone just went along with it, well besides isolated worlds and the actual machines who didnt give a fig regarding the configuration of their pilots

 Formosa wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

Gatekeeping what skin colour qualifies as a PoC is important. Otherwise how will we know when the hobby is sufficiently diverse?

Take that gak elsewhere dude

Let’s not let this thread degenerate into yet another alt right and SJW off please

The thread was doomed the moment fe40k imagined people complaining about a change in the lore most people weren't even aware had been changed.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It makes sense that there are women just as capable as men at piloting a knight.

Allegedly the ritual of bonding prevented women from becoming Imperial Knight pilots. Glad to see that was walked back.

Now, what I REALLY want is another pilot like Sir Hekhtor, only it is a woman instead.

The great thing about the IoM is its aversion to reason and sticking to dogma from a long dead age, maybe a high ranking Tech-Priest crowbarred the 'no gurls' idea post-HH and everyone just went along with it, well besides isolated worlds and the actual machines who didnt give a fig regarding the configuration of their pilots

It did seem to be cultural rather than anything else.

It simply is a cultural thing. Backwards and Feral worlds mostly have the men fighting for the same reason humanity on Earth up to even the present day does, you need more women than men to keep the population stable. Men are, for lack of a better word, more disposable than women are. It's a horrible reality and I hate that it is true, but the truth hurts. With the scales of the Imperium, most "doctrine" worlds simply have no reason to hold onto that anymore.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It simply is a cultural thing. Backwards and Feral worlds mostly have the men fighting for the same reason humanity on Earth up to even the present day does, you need more women than men to keep the population stable. Men are, for lack of a better word, more disposable than women are. It's a horrible reality and I hate that it is true, but the truth hurts. With the scales of the Imperium, most "doctrine" worlds simply have no reason to hold onto that anymore.

Agreed to a certain extent - although Nobilitiy and and does have variable requirements - also we know that the Imperium has a huge variety of social structures, population compositions and downright oddities. I think if the original had just said "most worlds or many worlds" it would have been fine.

Also at that time there did seem to be an aversion to women being mentioned in the non BL fluff even when appropriate - thats gone so all good.

My hypothesis on the lack of women in the past is best summed up the the Galbrush Paradox.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My hypothesis on the lack of women in the past is best summed up the the Galbrush Paradox.

?

Donlt kniw what that is.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My hypothesis on the lack of women in the past is best summed up the the Galbrush Paradox.

?

Donlt kniw what that is.

Top result in Google mate. The gist of it is that you can give a male character traits, but if you give a female character the exact same traits, you risk a backlash from a certain vocal clique. Thus, to avoid the backlash all together, you don't bother including female characters.

Another great example came from the Altered Carbon TV adaptation. They changed one scene from a woman being tortured to a man being tortured because, to quote the showrunner, "It’s going to turn into some torture porn thing, and I wasn’t comfortable with that." Because males are socially considered to be worth less than women.

So to wrap it up, there was nothing stopping you having female knight pilots in the past, GW has included official Female Knight pilots in the past, this is a non-issue.

Yeah, that's a bs theory.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
My hypothesis on the lack of women in the past is best summed up the the Galbrush Paradox.

?

Donlt kniw what that is.

Top result in Google mate. The gist of it is that you can give a male character negative traits, but if you give a female character the exact same negative traits, you risk a backlash from a certain vocal clique. Thus, to avoid the backlash all together, you don't bother including female characters.

Ahh I see - wierd - I see it that if you don't give female characters negative traits thats as bad as no positive traits

 Mr Morden wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
A real non-issue in my eyes since you never see the pilots. It's a bit like mentioning that there are female baneblade crew members. Ok? So what? Tbh it hadn't been something I'd considered, given the whole medieval nobility angle they were taking.

Well they are now making pilot models - well one so far but FW may make more

I do like the new video.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
It did say that in inital codex and then as I said earlier they introduced a female pilot in the companion novel .

I don't remember it saying that - would you happen to remember the page (in the Codex)?

The very first thin Codex - which went much much more into the society of the Knight Worlds - page 8

When he is old enough, a son of the household who is designated to become a Noble is fitted with the sacred neural sockets

page 16

All Nobles have a high born consort, it being considered vital that the Noble has sons to inherit their name and titles and daughters to marry as consorts to marry as consorts.....

It was quite an interesting read and as a counterpoint they talk about the power and influence of the consorts, I do however like that its now an noble scion of a house, so it will depend on the son or daughter - if they are worthy.

I don't think it was intentional, but in the early days some of the alien codex seemed to be written from the imperial view. Even imperial codex where scribed from a narrow perspective. When a change was made it could be written off as a misunderstanding or intentional misinformation. Reading the 3rd ed imperial guard codex you could get the impression that there were no female guard members, but for two woman in the last chancers and two regiments with woman represented by artwork in the list of regiments.

I think for whatever reason it was intentional - especially when you compare the BL novels at the time. Why is a different question.

 Formosa wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Came in expecting misogyny. Found people discussing what to call different “shades” of people. Jeez, guys.

Gatekeeping what skin colour qualifies as a PoC is important. Otherwise how will we know when the hobby is sufficiently diverse?

Take that gak elsewhere dude

Let’s not let this thread degenerate into yet another alt right and SJW off please

I have to explain myself. What I said is not because some alt right/SWJ crap, virtue signaling or gatekeeping or whatever. I just had an injustified burst, motivated by the tiresome trend of people from northern/central europe calling black anybody that is a little darker than themselves.
I know not everybody is like that, and probably the original poster had the best of the intentions with his post. I also know if you aren't from mediterranean countries you probably wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Or a country that for many people is Mexico 2.
But I apologize nonetheless, I shouldn't have said what I said.

Good idea, non-issue moving on.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It makes sense that there are women just as capable as men at piloting a knight.

Allegedly the ritual of bonding prevented women from becoming Imperial Knight pilots. Glad to see that was walked back.

Now, what I REALLY want is another pilot like Sir Hekhtor, only it is a woman instead.

The great thing about the IoM is its aversion to reason and sticking to dogma from a long dead age, maybe a high ranking Tech-Priest crowbarred the 'no gurls' idea post-HH and everyone just went along with it, well besides isolated worlds and the actual machines who didnt give a fig regarding the configuration of their pilots

Or maybe the tech priests knew that women have a worse hand to eye coordination, and slower reaction times to movment then man. Not to mention the physical strain a knights body has to undergo, specially in combat situation. A woman lighter skeleton would mean they take more internal damage when the knight is hit, comparing to a man.

I don't think the tech priests whink in terms of sjw or not, seems like a dead philosophy in the w40k world.

I’ve gotten the impression after ready Kingsward that Mechanicus aligned Houses tend to buck tradition and ignore gender for most things, putting the best person for the job in the job regardless of gender with the only exception being the High King.

On the other hand, we see Imperial Knight Households are much more traditional, and view female pilots as an aberration, i.e., not unheard of but definitely not the excepted standard. However, Knight Consorts of Imperial Houses seem to wield vastly more power than the Mechanicum House equivalent.

SJ

PS - also, Kingsward read more like a Battletech novel with demons than it did a 40k novel, while Knights of the Imperium read like a hard 40k novel.

Are males and females in w40k breed the same way clan warriors are? As in do they have changed bone and muscle structure when comparing to a normal human/

Karol wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It makes sense that there are women just as capable as men at piloting a knight.

Allegedly the ritual of bonding prevented women from becoming Imperial Knight pilots. Glad to see that was walked back.

Now, what I REALLY want is another pilot like Sir Hekhtor, only it is a woman instead.

The great thing about the IoM is its aversion to reason and sticking to dogma from a long dead age, maybe a high ranking Tech-Priest crowbarred the 'no gurls' idea post-HH and everyone just went along with it, well besides isolated worlds and the actual machines who didnt give a fig regarding the configuration of their pilots

Or maybe the tech priests knew that women have a worse hand to eye coordination, and slower reaction times to movment then man. Not to mention the physical strain a knights body has to undergo, specially in combat situation. A woman lighter skeleton would mean they take more internal damage when the knight is hit, comparing to a man.

I don't think the tech priests whink in terms of sjw or not, seems like a dead philosophy in the w40k world.

Imagine, if you will, a really loud, visceral OOF sound. That's what's in my head. I don't detract what I said earlier about Mr early bird, but this is quite oof level stuff.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I’ve gotten the impression after ready Kingsward that Mechanicus aligned Houses tend to buck tradition and ignore gender for most things, putting the best person for the job in the job regardless of gender with the only exception being the High King.

On the other hand, we see Imperial Knight Households are much more traditional, and view female pilots as an aberration, i.e., not unheard of but definitely not the excepted standard. However, Knight Consorts of Imperial Houses seem to wield vastly more power than the Mechanicum House equivalent.

SJ

PS - also, Kingsward read more like a Battletech novel with demons than it did a 40k novel, while Knights of the Imperium read like a hard 40k novel.

Andy Clarks Knight novels are very BattleTech with a 40K overlay - probably why I really enjoyed them.

Karol wrote:
Are males and females in w40k breed the same way clan warriors are? As in do they have changed bone and muscle structure when comparing to a normal human/

Depends on which planet. A hive world? Probably not. A Forge world? Probably so.

SJ

Karol wrote:
Are males and females in w40k breed the same way clan warriors are? As in do they have changed bone and muscle structure when comparing to a normal human/

Not that I've ever read.

One of the main reasons the military is hesitant to have female combat soldiers now is not sexism but biology.

A soldier has to carry up to 60 lbs (30kg) in their back packs, add to that body armour and weapon that's a fair weight for a man, women however due to the shape of their hips can suffer long term damage to their knees from carrying that kind of weight over protracted periods and there's no good answer how to fix the issue.

Maybe the guard has much lighter backpacks? Lifespan of a trooper isn't that high to begin with perhaps they are just issued the bare minimum and sent off to die.

For a knight pilot it wouldn't matter, same with tank crew and fighters it just does not require the same muscle mass and difference in skeletal structure is also irrelevant.