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I like these ALOT for AD&D/pathfinder minis. Lizardfolk are one of the staples of my world.. and holy smokes these are AMAZING. I was thinking of getting some of gw's but these are frankly the best looking lizardfolk that ive seen across any market. very well done with them! this will be the first kickstarter i think i will actually pledge too.

I think I should ask the company for some kind of compensation, how they didn't even thought about posting their kickstarter in the biggest wargaming forum of the planet...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yo shin, have you heard the saying "stealing from one source is plagiarism, stealing from many sources is research"? GW does a lot of research.

I'm bad at this kind of thing - is this a pithy remark agreeing or disagreeing with my post?

Sort of both. While I agree that GW has "stolen" from plenty of sources (there is nothing truly original that can't be broken down into a collection of influences), I don't find that morally equivalent to actual theft. Nor do I believe it is equivalent to "stealing" the aesthetic designs from a single source, a direct imitation. However, I don't have a real problem with that, either, other than lamenting a general lack of creativity.

These lizardmen look great, even if they are obviously based on GW's own aesthetic. I hope to see more lizardmen that aren't armed and outfitted in Aztec style with derivative units like skinks, chameleons, lizard ogres, and the like.

OK, we just see it differently then - either your source/s of inspiration are self-evident or not, and if they are whether there's one or a dozen makes no odds IMO. The creativity is in the interpretation of the concept rather than the concept itself, sure, but that's an entirely valid form of creativity.

not familiar with this company. are they legit? of course it seems any miniature company not called CMON or Reaper on kickstarter have a chance to fail (centerstage anyone?) but would this have a good chance to make it?

[edit - just saw ketara post. so it appears they are legit and have delivered a kickstarter - but expect delays due to the size of this -delays arent an issue IMHO - its not completing the project and us losing money im worried about]

Sanjay

StarFyre wrote:
not familiar with this company. are they legit? of course it seems any miniature company not called CMON or Reaper on kickstarter have a chance to fail (centerstage anyone?) but would this have a good chance to make it?

[edit - just saw ketara post. so it appears they are legit and have delivered a kickstarter - but expect delays due to the size of this -delays arent an issue IMHO - its not completing the project and us losing money im worried about]

Sanjay

That is what I am worried about. Another Robotech fiasco.

They've delivered one KS already so they know the trials and tribulations of KS and fulfilment and their previous KS is part of their regular retail sales now so there's a functional company behind it.

In addition the Robotech failure was partly also linked to the licence expiring and not being renewed which I suspect influenced their choices on how they managed things (esp near the end). This KS isn't bound to an external contract as the designs are all "in house".

In general any KS even one by a big company (eg reaper) can fail. It's always a risk. Heck Spartan Games were running one when their company went belly up and suddenly went into administration and there wasn't any real hints from them that this was possible (there were hints that they were in trouble but most of them were general gripes that SG had had for a number of years).


The trick is to only ever spend your disposable income; that way if a KS fails you've only lost "hobby" money that was disposable anyway. So treat it a bit like going to the dogs or the races in that regard.

The infantry are a bit much for me, but I hope this does well. Be a real shame for some of those larger models not to see the light of day because they've bitten off more than they can chew, funding-wise.

The not-Razordon and not-Salamander are absolutely gorgeous, I just wish they had more than one pose. I'd back for them alone otherwise.

Lovely looking lizard peeps, makes me want to finish off my not-stegadon/coatl model.

Not sure I've much use for them, AoS seems dry around here, but might pick up some heroes for the shelf.

Overread wrote:They've delivered one KS already so they know the trials and tribulations of KS and fulfilment and their previous KS is part of their regular retail sales now so there's a functional company behind it.

In addition the Robotech failure was partly also linked to the licence expiring and not being renewed which I suspect influenced their choices on how they managed things (esp near the end). This KS isn't bound to an external contract as the designs are all "in house".

In general any KS even one by a big company (eg reaper) can fail. It's always a risk. Heck Spartan Games were running one when their company went belly up and suddenly went into administration and there wasn't any real hints from them that this was possible (there were hints that they were in trouble but most of them were general gripes that SG had had for a number of years).


The trick is to only ever spend your disposable income; that way if a KS fails you've only lost "hobby" money that was disposable anyway. So treat it a bit like going to the dogs or the races in that regard.

Thanks for that. Almost like a stock market then. I don't want to take a chance right now. So I will wait till the Kickstarter is over and hopefully they still keep selling them then. If I had 100% guarantee then I would go in, but don't want to risk my disposable income since it could have went to something 100% in my hands.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
- GW prevent people from "piggy backing"...

I always get a kick out of this. GW get's upset when people use GW for stuff but GW entire line is "almost" a copy of something else. How ironic GW sues for what they basically do.

A bit disingenuous there, GW generally copy from a number of sources then combine them, as far as I can see the Cuetzpal Empire has 1 point of inspiration; GW's Lizardmen.

That seems like an odd point of criticism - so, "stealing"(note: I do not actually consider unauthorised use of information "stealing", I'm just using the term for the same reason corporations do - impact) a whole bag of shopping is OK, but only "stealing" one Mars bar is not? Or does it only become OK once you use the "stolen" shopping to make a meal?

Cuetzal Empire are Lost Kingdom's take on a similar combination of concepts and tropes as the pastiche GW chose to use, that they weren't the first to use that particular combination doesn't make their work somehow "lesser" any more than one maker of flatscreen TVs not being the first to make such a device makes their offering "lesser" than the first to do so(assuming GW were the first, they rarely are and that's never made their stuff less appealing). Particularly given GW seem disinclined to continue developing and refining their version of the pastiche.

Stealing in combination with physical items is a bad comparison though. It is more like stealing a recipe, but it is even more like copying a recipe.

The thing is the Cuetzal Empire is not a take on the tropes and pastiches GW chose to use, as far as I can see it is a take on GW's take.
So while GW copied ideas, by virtue of melding them into a unique combination them they created something new. The Cuetzal Empire as far as I can see, is a copy of this something new. Aztec Lizardmen are easy to find in 20th century science fiction literature, GW did not invent them, but the creature they became in 5th edition Warhammer was unique.

The flatscreen example is also poor, I think a better example would be something along the lines of Khal Drogo is not lessened by the fact that Conan came before him. I agree with this idea completely and is one of the reasons I am upset copyright takes so long to expire.

I would also like to see non-Aztec Lizardmen, I wish someone would copy my beloved Stygian (from Chronopia) so I can really build an out of control swarm.

That being said, the Lost Kingdom "Slann" does look rather unique (I would not call it a development though), I will likely get that when it hits retail.

Davor wrote:

skullking wrote:I backed their Indegogo for the Chaos Dwarves awhile ago, and they came out great!

You can get them, along with some orcs & gobbos it looks like, on their website.

http://lostkingdomminiatures.com/en/

Did you have any issues with the company or your order? Did it come late? Did you get what you ordered? Was the quality as good as the pics shown?

After reading what happened with Robotech Kickstarter and other Kickstarters, it seems it's a chance and you might not get your product or money back. So that is why I am leary and trying to learn how Kickstarter works.


I asked before but wasn't answered. How come and use a Kickstarter if the molds are already made? What if they don't get the sales to unlock the bonuses? What happens then? They are never released? It just doesn't make sense to spend all the money on molds if their is no demand for it. If the molds are not made how can they have this released by this August? I just don't get it and that is why I am leary.

Sorry for the late reply. I didn't have any issues with the company in terms of getting the items. I don't recall if they were late or not (I expect most crowdfunding stuff to take longer than expected, so I'm a bit more patient). The quality was definitely good though, IMO.

To be fair, the Robotech KS was a rather imfamous fiasco, and not the same company at all IIRC. They were also making those figures in plastic, which is a much more difficult and expensive process upfront. These guys will all be resin, and they already have a pipeline for resin casting, since they have a webshop set up for their existing figures. I don't believe all these figures have had molds made yet. Most of the pictures are just the 3D computer sculpts. When they fund, they'll have them 3D printed, then molds will be made to cast the actual figures.

Based on the Chaos Dwarfs Indegogo, it looks like everything they funded is currently in their webstore, plus at least one extra (the lamassu gate, which wasn't part of that project, AND I WANTS IT!!). So I thin it's a pretty good bet that whatever gets funded should make it to the store, but I can't confirm that. Buying through the kickstarter will get you a better price, but you'll have to wait awhile, buying it through the webstore will be quicker to receive, but you'll wait longer to get them into the store, and they'll probably be more expensive, so that's your trade off.

Thank you so much Skull King.

If you were waiting for the Gyro mega froggy, he's unlocked!



They even provided a little insight as to how his base and such will connect, which is kind of cool.

That base is really cool, but I fear I'll tip it over and break it for good.

It looks like a daunting bit of work to do. Hopefully the casting quality is nice and crisp!

Holy crap this is an awesome project. Wish I could fund it. So many of these minis are just beautiful.

I have a question for those who have received miniatures from previous projects/purchases from them : how is the quality of their resin ? Is it supple, brittle ? Do they need a lot of work to clean before building/painting ? Did you have a lot of bending parts that you had to put back in good shape under warm water ?

I am in for the Frog.

He will either go on a 80mm or 100mm base, not a 50mm though.

The fancy Kroxigor is also tempting me.

Wow, that is intense! I can't see what the gears inside the base are for, though?

I think it would look really cool with just the frog-in-sphere, without assembling the surrounding rings (and be more practical as a gaming piece, too).

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, that is intense! I can't see what the gears inside the base are for, though?

I think it would look really cool with just the frog-in-sphere, without assembling the surrounding rings (and be more practical as a gaming piece, too).

This was from the update.

To make it even more spectacular, we designed the Ometéotl device with a simple rotating base, with which you only have to move a small gear to place the powerful Supreme Sorcerer facing his enemies without moving the base.

In addition, the rings can be moved manually to place the device in the position that you like and making it easier to store and transport. We think it might look amazing!

If I hadn't been home sick with no pay for the last week, I would have definitely upped my pledge to include the Supreme Sorceror. As things are, I don't think I can afford the extra expense this month :(

Beautiful model though!

Hive don't forget many minature KS often have a pledge manager after. It's not just the company getting more money but also because the postage and such can get a little complicated with all the addons people want to do. So its often lets you get an extra month or more to add into your initial pledge.

The KS is still the best place to pledge if you can as it unlocks the reward goals, whilst the Pledge manager won't.

 StygianBeach wrote:
I am in for the Frog.

He will either go on a 80mm or 100mm base, not a 50mm though.

Me too Don't need him, but I couldn't resist.

I'm definitely in for £75 to grab some characters.

Last day, folks. Get those pledges in. Have done so at 44 Euros for the cavalry.

if only my sis wasnt late paying rent this month for a job change.. Id be in. as it is.. will see what options are available after the 1st.

Gah the only thing I really want is the giant snake dragon - which isn't to say the rest don't look fantastic. Sadly as the most expensive I think i'll have to hold off and (even though it will cost more) pick it up another time/year.

Postage is 20€ to Germany for the Frog alone.

I am kinda tempted to get some Chaos Dwarves to pad the box out a bit.

Will these models eventually be available outside of kickstarter?

Zachectomy wrote:
Will these models eventually be available outside of kickstarter?

Besides the ones listed as KS exclusive, and the army deals you were able to get during the campaign, I'm sure they will. They've released all the Chaos dwarfs they did in their indegogo campaign, plus a piece of scenery, so I don't see why, or how they couldn't with these. If you want any of the exclusives, I'd email them now though, and see if you can late back it before the 9/16, when the pledge manager closes.

Zachectomy wrote:
Will these models eventually be available outside of kickstarter?

As Skullking has already stated, they have released the Chaos Dwarves from their previous KS campaign at retail, so I'd assume they'd do the same here. (Barring KS exclusives of course). What does surprise me is they have not opened up late pledges as many other KS projects have done.