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 Ecclesiarch 616 wrote:
Why is it that my two space marine armies GK and vanilla seem to be getting worse & worse. GW keeps talking about balance but balancing all the SM armies should be simple as the differences should be relatively minor. The only exception is GK which are a bit different but the focus on daemons makes them very specialised. Silver has no chance against gold.

I don't think the Marine issues were as clear in the time of the first chapter approved as they are now, and the FAQs are only for emergency changes. We can agree that the state of Marines is an emergency, but I can also see why GW might not.

I will say that if things don't improve by the next CA then I think a lot of people are going to be very upset.

jcd386 wrote:

 Ecclesiarch 616 wrote:
Why is it that my two space marine armies GK and vanilla seem to be getting worse & worse. GW keeps talking about balance but balancing all the SM armies should be simple as the differences should be relatively minor. The only exception is GK which are a bit different but the focus on daemons makes them very specialised. Silver has no chance against gold.

I don't think the Marine issues were as clear in the time of the first chapter approved as they are now, and the FAQs are only for emergency changes. We can agree that the state of Marines is an emergency, but I can also see why GW might not.

I will say that if things don't improve by the next CA then I think a lot of people are going to be very upset.

Which, if you are correct, means SMs become horribly broken given GWs track record. Which wouldn't be a good thing for anyone in the long run.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

jcd386 wrote:

 Ecclesiarch 616 wrote:
Why is it that my two space marine armies GK and vanilla seem to be getting worse & worse. GW keeps talking about balance but balancing all the SM armies should be simple as the differences should be relatively minor. The only exception is GK which are a bit different but the focus on daemons makes them very specialised. Silver has no chance against gold.

I don't think the Marine issues were as clear in the time of the first chapter approved as they are now, and the FAQs are only for emergency changes. We can agree that the state of Marines is an emergency, but I can also see why GW might not.

I will say that if things don't improve by the next CA then I think a lot of people are going to be very upset.

Which, if you are correct, means SMs become horribly broken given GWs track record. Which wouldn't be a good thing for anyone in the long run.

Idk, there really aren't that many good ways to fix them without a full rewrite, so I think the best we can really hope for is have them be a little cheaper than they are now.

Or, in the case of GK, substantially cheaper.

making Marines cheaper will address some of it but IMHO there are some other issues with Marines.

they also could use some love on the stratigums front. tweek the cost of a few down, and maybe give them some new ones.

Here's a fun strat I'd like to see "Transhuman Dread Seeing Space Marines making war up close and personal is a terrifying sight, that can unman even the bravest When an Astartes unit is in melee combat against a non astartes (or heretic astartes) force you may deploy this stratigium. the unit in close combat takes a -1 penalty to all leadership checks well in combat"

Or something along those lines, allow space marines to really use shock tactics well. (and I'd be all for this being given to chaos space marines and varient marine codices as well) it'd be situational but might be handy.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that Wolves relic storm bolter has over the Dark Angels one is the Helfrost-like rule. If this is all the power creep there is, I'm not worried.

Its also assault 4. If the DA stormbolter was assault 4 i wouldnt care

123ply wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that Wolves relic storm bolter has over the Dark Angels one is the Helfrost-like rule. If this is all the power creep there is, I'm not worried.

Its also assault 4. If the DA stormbolter was assault 4 i wouldnt care

It's literally superior to the Dark Angel one in every single way.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

123ply wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that Wolves relic storm bolter has over the Dark Angels one is the Helfrost-like rule. If this is all the power creep there is, I'm not worried.

Its also assault 4. If the DA stormbolter was assault 4 i wouldnt care

It's literally superior to the Dark Angel one in every single way.

Well maybe the dark angels would have better toys if they weren't such UNTRUSTING PARIOID DICKS!

but yeah in all seriousness the dark angels storm bolter just outright SUCKS. leaving aside comparisons to the new space wolves storm bolter, it's ALSO inferior to the Primarch's wraith. this isn't so much Codex creep as the Dark Angels relic stormbolter is just out and out BAD

 cuda1179 wrote:
Or, in the case of GK, substantially cheaper.

Man imagine this being GW plan. Primaris models not really used or bought, so people don't hate them or care about them. Whole edition of normal marines being the bad, people start hating them more and more with each game they play. Then 9th rolls around and primaris have new spiffy rules, that actualy do work, and marine players flock to play them. Maybe even splater some really undercosted transport unit that can shot for them. Everyone ditchs the old marines and buys in to the primaris.

At the same time GK player go where did everyone go, as they do not have access to primaris

BrianDavion wrote:
making Marines cheaper will address some of it but IMHO there are some other issues with Marines.

they also could use some love on the stratigums front. tweek the cost of a few down, and maybe give them some new ones.

Here's a fun strat I'd like to see "Transhuman Dread Seeing Space Marines making war up close and personal is a terrifying sight, that can unman even the bravest When an Astartes unit is in melee combat against a non astartes (or heretic astartes) force you may deploy this stratigium. the unit in close combat takes a -1 penalty to all leadership checks well in combat"

Or something along those lines, allow space marines to really use shock tactics well. (and I'd be all for this being given to chaos space marines and varient marine codices as well) it'd be situational but might be handy.

I like it, but make exceptions for cultists, poxwalkers and any daemon unit that appears in chaos space marine codexes. And maybe bump it to -1 for every 2 models killed but -1 is good as well.

Karol wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Or, in the case of GK, substantially cheaper.

Man imagine this being GW plan. Primaris models not really used or bought, so people don't hate them or care about them. Whole edition of normal marines being the bad, people start hating them more and more with each game they play. Then 9th rolls around and primaris have new spiffy rules, that actualy do work, and marine players flock to play them. Maybe even splater some really undercosted transport unit that can shot for them. Everyone ditchs the old marines and buys in to the primaris.

At the same time GK player go where did everyone go, as they do not have access to primaris

I doubt it, the fact is that if GW wanetd to do something like that it seems a bit odd that they went so far out of their way with their introduction to make Primaris NOT obselete old marines.