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now we can have heroes for hire, and the first few episodes can be world hopper iron fist repeatedly punching luke cage for going to the dark side

I dunno like, without spoiling anything the ending for DD season 3 felt like it was written very much from a "show on the verge of cancellation" standpoint, in that it left a few minor threads dangling for a potential future run but could also easily be framed as a satisfying conclusion to the story - there's no real "need" for another season in the same way there really is with LC and IF.

I really do hope it's just a Heroes for Hire/Daughters of the Dragon thing, but the issue there is they'd have to devote the whole first season of it to maneuvering Danny and Luke into position to even start their collaboration, given where their respective series' ended off last time.

 Lance845 wrote:
Or Ike Pearlmutter is an idiot again?

You've got to get through the boneheadedness of Jeph "It's All Connected" Loeb before you even get close to Perlmutter.

Yodhrin wrote:I dunno like, without spoiling anything the ending for DD season 3 felt like it was written very much from a "show on the verge of cancellation" standpoint, in that it left a few minor threads dangling for a potential future run but could also easily be framed as a satisfying conclusion to the story - there's no real "need" for another season in the same way there really is with LC and IF.

I really do hope it's just a Heroes for Hire/Daughters of the Dragon thing, but the issue there is they'd have to devote the whole first season of it to maneuvering Danny and Luke into position to even start their collaboration, given where their respective series' ended off last time.

A single season of Daughters could shift both Luke and IF into the right positions. Misty and Coleen have grown well in IF and LC. No reason the guys can't do the same.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Or Ike Pearlmutter is an idiot again?

You've got to get through the boneheadedness of Jeph "It's All Connected" Loeb before you even get close to Perlmutter.

Ike is the one who was pushing the movies to do inhumans and forcing every movie to churn out the exact same format of phase 1 and part of 2. It wasn't until Fiege got Disney to let him bypass the council run by Ike that the movies broke free. Then Ike pushed the laughably bad Inhumans into TV. Ikes the biggest root problem. Every. Time.

 Lance845 wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:I dunno like, without spoiling anything the ending for DD season 3 felt like it was written very much from a "show on the verge of cancellation" standpoint, in that it left a few minor threads dangling for a potential future run but could also easily be framed as a satisfying conclusion to the story - there's no real "need" for another season in the same way there really is with LC and IF.

I really do hope it's just a Heroes for Hire/Daughters of the Dragon thing, but the issue there is they'd have to devote the whole first season of it to maneuvering Danny and Luke into position to even start their collaboration, given where their respective series' ended off last time.

A single season of Daughters could shift both Luke and IF into the right positions. Misty and Coleen have grown well in IF and LC. No reason the guys can't do the same.

That's not actually a bad idea. You could do an 8 episode "event" series like Defenders and have Luke as the initial antagonist to Misty & Coleen, with Danny trotting about with his chi-pistol nonsense as a B story, then tie them all together towards the end to face a bigbad once Luke's had some sense knocked into him and Danny's back to being Iron Fist(ideally including costume), then all four characters could be rolled into a new Heroes For Hire show going forward.

Sadly I think it's more likely that despite the protestations of their board, cancelling LC as well is more likely an indicator that the whole Netflixverse is for the chop once the current slate(JJ3, Punisher2) is cleared.

Seems likely. I vaguely remember there being an item some time ago about Disney/Marvel breaking off with Netflix and only finishing what was already in the works so to speak. Presumably to consolidate all shows on their own streaming service (yoho, yoho).

Once again, R rated movies and shows will not feature on Disney's platform, and, as of August at least, Disney had no current plans to end the Netflix/Marvel family of shows, only the MCU movies.

So this either represents a change in that thinking, a new show featuring these characters, or pushback from Netflix over losing the movies (which would be a decidedly petulant and unprofessional move for a multi billion dollar company assuming the shows were successful, by whatever metric NF judges these things.)

If this is the end of both characters, some of Finn Jones' social media posts seem curiously upbeat and positive, but viewed through the lens of an an upcoming heroes for hire show, would make more sense.

When's the next 'Con where these sorts of things are announced?

 Azreal13 wrote:

So this either represents a change in that thinking, a new show featuring these characters, or pushback from Netflix over losing the movies (which would be a decidedly petulant and unprofessional move for a multi billion dollar company assuming the shows were successful, by whatever metric NF judges these things.)

Can't speak to their motivations in dropping LC and IF, but Netflix as a whole seems pretty merciless in how they cancel their shows. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, they'll drop it unceremoniously.

I think if a show isn't critically acclaimed right out of the gate like Peaky Blinders, the first few seasons House of Cards(remember it as it was, not what it became!), Ozark etc, its never long for the Netflix world. It just seems shocking because superhero stuff is pretty hot right now, but if you look at Netflix's modus operandi, it makes sense.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Once again, R rated movies and shows will not feature on Disney's platform, and, as of August at least, Disney had no current plans to end the Netflix/Marvel family of shows, only the MCU movies.

Well, that's what they said... but they have canceled 2 of the Netflix series. The initial announcement was covered with qualifiers, like 'for now', 'in the time being', etc. I'd say the actions are currently pushing to 1 of 2 things- Marvel Netflix being totally canceled, or incorporated in some new form on the Disney Streaming services. It's a really weird move to start canceling series that close together, especially on the eve of Daredevil 3 launching.

As it is the more cold-hearted and cost efficient choice, my suspicion is that the Netflix Marvel shows are heading to Hulu or Disney Streaming.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

So this either represents a change in that thinking, a new show featuring these characters, or pushback from Netflix over losing the movies (which would be a decidedly petulant and unprofessional move for a multi billion dollar company assuming the shows were successful, by whatever metric NF judges these things.)

Can't speak to their motivations in dropping LC and IF, but Netflix as a whole seems pretty merciless in how they cancel their shows. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, they'll drop it unceremoniously.

I think if a show isn't critically acclaimed right out of the gate like Peaky Blinders, the first few seasons House of Cards(remember it as it was, not what it became!), Ozark etc, its never long for the Netflix world. It just seems shocking because superhero stuff is pretty hot right now, but if you look at Netflix's modus operandi, it makes sense.

That doesn't necessarily follow, look at the likes of Bright which were critically panned but NF, who are notoriously tight lipped about these things, went out of their way to show how many times it had been watched.

Ultimately, the NF business model is one that doesn't require its customers to watch anything, it just requires the content to be attractive enough to entice and retain subscribers. One has to question whether that cancelling two Marvel shows, even perhaps the two ginger headed step children of the stable, would work towards that end.

All ways up I think we're simply not in possession of all the facts yet, and I think we'll see a few news stories or press releases over the coming months that'll clean up what's happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Once again, R rated movies and shows will not feature on Disney's platform, and, as of August at least, Disney had no current plans to end the Netflix/Marvel family of shows, only the MCU movies.

Well, that's what they said... but they have canceled 2 of the Netflix series. The initial announcement was covered with qualifiers, like 'for now', 'in the time being', etc. I'd say the actions are currently pushing to 1 of 2 things- Marvel Netflix being totally canceled, or incorporated in some new form on the Disney Streaming services. It's a really weird move to start canceling series that close together, especially on the eve of Daredevil 3 launching.

As it is the more cold-hearted and cost efficient choice, my suspicion is that the Netflix Marvel shows are heading to Hulu or Disney Streaming.

They can't, Netflix owns them. Netflix, not Disney, has cancelled them. Disney can withdraw the licence and let somebody else make show based on the property, but these shows as they exist are going nowhere, unless Disney have actually purchased them. Thought this seems unlikely given they aren't showing R rated content on Disneyflix, unless the income they'd derive from having them on Hulu somehow substantially outpaces the licence revenue they're getting from NF.

I think folk are overlooking another possibility - if it turns out that way, just because the shows are cancelled because of Disney's streaming service doesn't necessitate it be Disney doing the cancelling. Netflix may well decide they don't want to give a rival subscription service what amounts to free advertising(since to most normies, they just see "Marvel" not MCU or Sony Spiderverse or ABC Network shows or Netflix shows etc, so there's nothing to stop them watching Netflix Marvel and then finding stuff on Disney's service when they go searching for more content).

TBH I found both Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones all painfully boring and it doesn't surprise me that Cage & Fist were cancelled. I'm honestly a bit surprised that they got second seasons and absolutely shocked that Jones has a third. The main reason I think that Daredevil and Punisher have been working is because they have more compelling characters not just with the leads but also with the supporting characters. I don't really care for Daredevil himself but I enjoyed the series because of Foggy, Fisk and Punisher. They added a lot to the mix.

The only character that really pulled me in with Cage was Cottonmouth and once he was out I lost interest as the show devolved into angry super powered barber shop. Not what I was interested in, Fist just never had any sort of hook and. Danny is boring as hell.

I think that in order to make a super hero show work the villains need to carry almost as much weight as the heroes which most of these shows have been failing at which is why their success has been floundering.

I stopped LC after a few episodes because the character was crap. Not even a little surprised it was booted. Bummed that IF is gone though, I like the character, and had no issue with the show (although it felt really similar to Arrow, in some respects, so I can understand less draw from people). LC went bad it seems? That's...wow. It's like the writers for that show had no idea who they were writing about. Glad I tossed it.

I thought the 2nd season of Iron Fist was better than the first, but not my favorite show. the 2nd season of Luke Cage had me falling asleep in some parts. I won't miss them, but hopefully they will still make appearances in the other shows for continuity.. I think both characters will be fine in smaller doses.

This is obviously a move by Disney to keep the Marvel brand "pure" to their revenue streams.

When I first heard Disney bought Marvel AND wanted their own streaming service I knew the writing was on the wall for the Netflix shows.

Yeah, if they can they'll move them to hulu if they can nab the rights but Hulu is where you'll see the adult disney content. Anything less than adult will end up on their streaming service.

The issue with that is Hulu isn't a global presence.

So they're either going to have to come to a distribution with another streaming service that does (a choice of two,one of which theyve already built a partnership with) find some way of weathering the not-American user blowback, which I suspect collectively outnumbers the American, or invest heavily into Hulu to make it global and convince people to sign up to two new streaming services, ie Disneyflix and Hulu.

That's a huge undertaking, whatever way they go.

It makes much more sense that these decisions have come from Netflix because they have other plans for the characters, or they aren't prepared to keep spending on shows that aren't performing as they need to.

I'm not going to lie, Iron Fist S2 ended in a pretty interesting direction,.......

.... finally finished this.

It was a bit of a slog combined with a tough personal schedule and my family interspersing other shows into our line-up. Therefore it took a while to complete.

Do the Iron Fist colors have any significance similar to the color of rings for Lanterns in the DC world? If so....

Davos (Red)- Clearly it lines up with anger and rage, so a match.

Colleen (White)- Also lines up with some sort of virtuous nature.

Danny (Yellow)- Lines up with fear? His character was afraid a lot, and always searching.

Anyway, just some point of discussion even though we will not see any more.

I think they used color to suggest a mood in the case of Davos and Colleen. I don't think Danny's color really *means* anything. His fist has mostly been yellow/orange in the comics, I think. I believe Steel Serpent's has been purple in recent comics, FWIW.

I still think it was a much improved show in season 2.

It was, but the pacing was a bit weak, and even at a trimmed 10 episodes felt too slow going.

Davos' character arc was essentially static, so anything involving him was a bit boring even if the performance was always solid.

Joy.... I still can't get a read on what is going on with her....

Ward's arc was good and was a nice mirror to Danny's as they both dealt with addiction.

Colleen and Misty was interesting interaction, but ultimately I did not feel it was that fulfilling.

I was actually a bit sad how it eroded some of the larger New York structure with Yang's story line and resolution.

IMO, the fist colors where meant to show they are not the Iron Fist. They stole it, doesnt matter if they can wield it, they didnt shove their hand into a dragons heart.
doesnt matter anymore.....we aint getting next seasons.