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Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

 lolman1c wrote:


I love how the 40k community have defined what people play as almolike a racial slur. Reminds me of "You Irish wouldn't know what a hards day work is!" My mum used to get told when she came to England. XD not like we're normal people who play more factions other than Orks. XD


I love it too but perhaps you love it sarcastically while I genuinely love the fact that people own their armies as if they identify with them. Thats immersion! However as a 40k player of many years and many editions i'm massively racist. I despise the entire eldar race! This new codex is definitely going to give us more tricks against them. In general now that the hype has subsided over new rule syndrome its looking positive but definitely not OP.

but then trying to buy a Mek gun kit from GW nowadays is an exercise in futility, Everyone be trak kannon mad these days. I can't buy a smasha gun for love nor money

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 15:23:10


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Elbows wrote:
I started saying it when the rumours came out...it's a really strong book. Extremely strong in many instances. If not a meta-toppling book, it's a good example of tremendous codex creep. It won't stop Ork players from complaining, but you will see some extremely stout performances in the tournament scene. If anything they're strong enough to be unfun to play in narrative or casual games with a strong build.


I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Okay so I played today against Orks at 1000 pts with my Dark Angels. My opponent proxied a lot of stuff and this was his first game with Orks (he's a Death Guard player otherwise). I think he played (from memory):

- 30 CC Boyz
- 20 Gun Boyz in a vanilla Battlewagon
- 10 Gretchins
- 1 vanilla Big Mek (the guy with the KFF)
- 1 Boss on bike, the new one with 3 guns, flamer and claw
- 1 Weirdboy
- 1 Traktor Cannon
- 5 bikes

We played the mission where you start with one Objective and then have one more per Objective controlled. He won on objectives because I had to give up due to bad objectives that forced me to do incredibly silly stuff if I wanted points, and he had the perfect objectives all the time (like destroying units + destroying units in shooting + kill a character + successful psyker power cast, all in one turn). Also, he had a way bigger board control with his many models and better deployment zone so could generate more cards.

Anyway, my opinion on this game was that first, Orks are still not really resilient. His 30 Boyz died easily even with the KFF and didn't kill a lot in return (like, only one Librarian and an Intercessor). The bikes got killed with 3 plasma Inceptors with the +1D stratagem in one go.

Then even with one Traktor Cannon I can say that thing is BUSTED. A single one was not OP in this game, but he made his points back with a single turn by killing a single Inceptor so what the hell, this thing can be taken 18 times in an army and AUTOHITS. Did the writers see the meta Eldar lists with flyers and said "You know what ? Feth that" and wrote this thing down ? It's insane.

Also on a more personal level for this game, my objective was to charge something that had a higher Power Rating than my Warlord with him. So, anything 8 or more, I thought "Well I'll charge his warlord on bike, that thing is strong" but NO it was PR 6 while my Gravis Captain is 7. So I had to go on foot trying to charge the damn Battlewagon with my 5" movement to win 4 VP, needless to say I didn't succeed. But well it's just a Maelstrom problem as usual: get toasted if you draw horrible cards.

So my general opinion about this single game was not really negative after all, he played good and maybe without a really optimised list of course, but I can see the broken stuff that can be done. They have the most efficient long range anti-tank, for example. I expect point adjustments soon enough.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.


Yeah. Not seen it in action against a top tier soup list yet - be interesting to see how Eldar handle it - but was watching some Orks roll over non-optimised lists over the weekend.
Its definitely more IG/DE than Marines.
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Okay, I put it to the test today and brought a bunch of boyz with no DS against a necron army! wel... erm... by turn 3 every boy was dead. Yeah... I'm kinda getting what people are saying. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nithaniel wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:


I love how the 40k community have defined what people play as almolike a racial slur. Reminds me of "You Irish wouldn't know what a hards day work is!" My mum used to get told when she came to England. XD not like we're normal people who play more factions other than Orks. XD


I love it too but perhaps you love it sarcastically while I genuinely love the fact that people own their armies as if they identify with them. Thats immersion! However as a 40k player of many years and many editions i'm massively racist. I despise the entire eldar race! This new codex is definitely going to give us more tricks against them. In general now that the hype has subsided over new rule syndrome its looking positive but definitely not OP.

but then trying to buy a Mek gun kit from GW nowadays is an exercise in futility, Everyone be trak kannon mad these days. I can't buy a smasha gun for love nor money


I don't. I'm just a normal person who sees this as a game and an excuse to argue about something online that I personally don't really feel that angry about in real life. XD Don't know if that though is normal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 19:39:13


 
   
Made in bg
Dakka Veteran




 Aaranis wrote:
Okay so I played today against Orks at 1000 pts with my Dark Angels. My opponent proxied a lot of stuff and this was his first game with Orks (he's a Death Guard player otherwise). I think he played (from memory):

- 30 CC Boyz
- 20 Gun Boyz in a vanilla Battlewagon
- 10 Gretchins
- 1 vanilla Big Mek (the guy with the KFF)
- 1 Boss on bike, the new one with 3 guns, flamer and claw
- 1 Weirdboy
- 1 Traktor Cannon
- 5 bikes

We played the mission where you start with one Objective and then have one more per Objective controlled. He won on objectives because I had to give up due to bad objectives that forced me to do incredibly silly stuff if I wanted points, and he had the perfect objectives all the time (like destroying units + destroying units in shooting + kill a character + successful psyker power cast, all in one turn). Also, he had a way bigger board control with his many models and better deployment zone so could generate more cards.

Anyway, my opinion on this game was that first, Orks are still not really resilient. His 30 Boyz died easily even with the KFF and didn't kill a lot in return (like, only one Librarian and an Intercessor). The bikes got killed with 3 plasma Inceptors with the +1D stratagem in one go.

Then even with one Traktor Cannon I can say that thing is BUSTED. A single one was not OP in this game, but he made his points back with a single turn by killing a single Inceptor so what the hell, this thing can be taken 18 times in an army and AUTOHITS. Did the writers see the meta Eldar lists with flyers and said "You know what ? Feth that" and wrote this thing down ? It's insane.

Also on a more personal level for this game, my objective was to charge something that had a higher Power Rating than my Warlord with him. So, anything 8 or more, I thought "Well I'll charge his warlord on bike, that thing is strong" but NO it was PR 6 while my Gravis Captain is 7. So I had to go on foot trying to charge the damn Battlewagon with my 5" movement to win 4 VP, needless to say I didn't succeed. But well it's just a Maelstrom problem as usual: get toasted if you draw horrible cards.

So my general opinion about this single game was not really negative after all, he played good and maybe without a really optimised list of course, but I can see the broken stuff that can be done. They have the most efficient long range anti-tank, for example. I expect point adjustments soon enough.


Yea, eldar will have fun with the tractor canon, 45 pts per model MEG GUN, t5 w6 is something all heavy army will respect. RIP eldar fly army.
Wierdboy with the stratagem upgrade also look super good, gretchins look like super easy way to get CP. What seem harder is that orc players have to be very careful how they are going to use boyz to get value.
I`m really exited to view how orc armies will perform after the codex.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 lolman1c wrote:
Okay, I put it to the test today and brought a bunch of boyz with no DS against a necron army! wel... erm... by turn 3 every boy was dead. Yeah... I'm kinda getting what people are saying. XD


So you slow walked a bunch of boyz without any cover or method to clam up their shooting? That's just silly.
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.

An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

It's not suprising something happened to boys; they were disproportionately successful at the warhammer world events.

Normally supported by a bunch of guns and throw away buggies as disruption.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






nareik wrote:
It's not suprising something happened to boys; they were disproportionately successful at the warhammer world events.

Normally supported by a bunch of guns and throw away buggies as disruption.

Boys are much better at 7 points with their current rules than they were in the index. There is no denying that.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




Somerdale, NJ, USA

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Lord Clinto wrote:
Imo, one of the most underwhelmed/unsung units in the codex will be the Traktor Kannon Mek Gun.

First off NOTHING other then flamer-type weapons should be auto hit AND especially not an Ork (of all races) shooting something up to 48" away.

Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, D6 Dmg (effectively Melta against Flying Vehicles and auto crash and burn if the Flyer is destroyed) AUTOHITTING! for 45 points!

Now, don't get me wrong, it's a very Orky weapon but autohit????? that is just wrong. I could see giving it a bonus to hit flyers, even a +2 to hit; but auto hit anything within 48"...what about when targeting something other then a flyer? Shouldn't intervening models interfere with shooting this weapon? Nope...


Its one shot for 45 points at S8 -2AP.
Its not that impressive. You need at least 2 if you want to have some real impact and reliable damage output..
If it weren't for the auto-hit it would be crap.


You forgot the 1D6 damage. I don't think it's overpowered currently but I really need to see an "Ork Artillery" list in action first.


No, I didn't forget. All of the mek gun options are 1D6 damage.
Only the traktor cannon has 1 shot.


I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!

And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...


Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):

(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher
* Infantry
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* buff-able BS 3+
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor

(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers
* Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery
* Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment)
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon

SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?)
* Tank
* 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment)
* 60" vs. 48" Traktor range
* +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T8 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor
* 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon

AdM Onager w/Icarus Array
* Crawler, Vehicle
* 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment)
* Same range
* 3 Weapons with varying stats
- all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6 Dmg)
- 10 shots in total
- Potential for 14-19 Wounds
- Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers
* Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T7 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor
* 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon

I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.

A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!

My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.



"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."

"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."

- 8k /// - 5k /// - 5k /// - 6k /// - 6k /// - 4k /// - 4k /// Cust - 3k 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:
Okay, I put it to the test today and brought a bunch of boyz with no DS against a necron army! wel... erm... by turn 3 every boy was dead. Yeah... I'm kinda getting what people are saying. XD


So you slow walked a bunch of boyz without any cover or method to clam up their shooting? That's just silly.


No, I played evil sunz, had big mek with kff, I did use da jump once. The tesla was just too strong...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.


You are being sarcastic right? I personally think it's a great codex and I've seen a noticeable improvement when i bring the correct troops but it is not the best at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 21:06:20


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Lord Clinto,

Look on the bright side...they can only take 18 of them.
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





Mek guns can never benefit from klan kultures. Also you are probably better off comparing the damage and durability of mek guns to heavy weapon teams. I feel like most comparisons to SMs to be pretty bad due to sublte and large differences in offensive and defensive stats, aswell as the greater context of it within its own faction.

I do agree with you that they are definitely under priced in their current state.

sry im bad at this quoting thing.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Lord Clinto wrote:
Imo, one of the most underwhelmed/unsung units in the codex will be the Traktor Kannon Mek Gun.


I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.

A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!

My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 21:17:49


 
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

 Lord Clinto wrote:

Spoiler:
I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!

And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...


Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):

(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher
* Infantry
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* buff-able BS 3+
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor

(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers
* Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery
* Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment)
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon

SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?)
* Tank
* 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment)
* 60" vs. 48" Traktor range
* +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T8 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor
* 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon

AdM Onager w/Icarus Array
* Crawler, Vehicle
* 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment)
* Same range
* 3 Weapons with varying stats
- all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6 Dmg)
- 10 shots in total
- Potential for 14-19 Wounds
- Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers
* Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T7 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor
* 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon

I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.

A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!

My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.

I was wondering how my poor Icarus Dunecrawler fared against that earlier today, thanks for making the comparison for us.

Don't forget the Traktor Cannons are autohit in Overwatch too, in case you wanted to counter them.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Lord Clinto wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Lord Clinto wrote:
Imo, one of the most underwhelmed/unsung units in the codex will be the Traktor Kannon Mek Gun.

First off NOTHING other then flamer-type weapons should be auto hit AND especially not an Ork (of all races) shooting something up to 48" away.

Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, D6 Dmg (effectively Melta against Flying Vehicles and auto crash and burn if the Flyer is destroyed) AUTOHITTING! for 45 points!

Now, don't get me wrong, it's a very Orky weapon but autohit????? that is just wrong. I could see giving it a bonus to hit flyers, even a +2 to hit; but auto hit anything within 48"...what about when targeting something other then a flyer? Shouldn't intervening models interfere with shooting this weapon? Nope...


Its one shot for 45 points at S8 -2AP.
Its not that impressive. You need at least 2 if you want to have some real impact and reliable damage output..
If it weren't for the auto-hit it would be crap.


You forgot the 1D6 damage. I don't think it's overpowered currently but I really need to see an "Ork Artillery" list in action first.


No, I didn't forget. All of the mek gun options are 1D6 damage.
Only the traktor cannon has 1 shot.


I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!

And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...


Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):

(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher
* Infantry
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* buff-able BS 3+
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor

(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers
* Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery
* Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment)
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv
* 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon

SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?)
* Tank
* 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment)
* 60" vs. 48" Traktor range
* +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T8 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor
* 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon

AdM Onager w/Icarus Array
* Crawler, Vehicle
* 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment)
* Same range
* 3 Weapons with varying stats
- all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6 Dmg)
- 10 shots in total
- Potential for 14-19 Wounds
- Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers
* Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T7 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor
* 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon

I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.

A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!

My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.




Mek Gunz do not benefit from Kulturs. You seemed to have left out the fact that Mek Gunz only have 5+ armor and no character keyword. If you are in range of them you can shred away those 6 wounds easily.
They are not OP. Just because it hits doesn't mean its going to wound. And its only 2d6 pick the highest against vehicle flyers. Against every other unit its just D6.
They are good at what they do, but they are not auto-include.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aaranis wrote:

I was wondering how my poor Icarus Dunecrawler fared against that earlier today, thanks for making the comparison for us.

Don't forget the Traktor Cannons are autohit in Overwatch too, in case you wanted to counter them.


With one shot. And its a single unit. Mek Gunz are bought in a group, but are used separately. So if you charge one mek gun, only that mek gun can overwatch.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 21:31:37


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




There's no need to be cagey about it. Traktor kannons are good and there's nothing wrong with a codex having a good unit. People making comparisons to other factions are missing the point, though, because Orks are a very different army from AdMech or Space Marines. An Ork artillery unit fits into a very different context. You could make the same points about Necron Destroyers, but Necrons aren't exactly setting the competitive meta on fire right now despite how strong Destroyers are as a unit. And that's because other armies have tools that Necrons don't.



   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thoughts following the first game (which I lost, this was not unexpected)

Blood Axe Kultur giving cover over 18" is very 'meh', nice to have but not that useful, the stuff that murders boyz is short ranged so tends to get round it. What is very good though is being able to draw back from combat then shoot or charge.

Stuck with Blood Axe as thats what they are painted as so will get used to it.

The new strategems are nice and overall the mobility is seriously enhanced, out of three units of 30, two made it to combat at full size, the other was nearly so (lost a couple to overwatch) - in this game they then bounced off Custodis but thats one of them things, against T4 3+ save they would have done better. Ramming speed is nice (anything causing mortal wounds is nice).

But the feel was of an army that has gone from slowly slugging it under enemy guns across the table, to one thats now highly mobile, if fragile - they seem to need to win in the first two/three turns, after that they are exhausted.
   
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meleti wrote:
There's no need to be cagey about it. Traktor kannons are good and there's nothing wrong with a codex having a good unit. People making comparisons to other factions are missing the point, though, because Orks are a very different army from AdMech or Space Marines. An Ork artillery unit fits into a very different context. You could make the same points about Necron Destroyers, but Necrons aren't exactly setting the competitive meta on fire right now despite how strong Destroyers are as a unit. And that's because other armies have tools that Necrons don't.





While I completely agree with this point ( context is everything and you cant compare everythign to a space marine psuedo equivalent and so one is stronger over the other) I feel that traktor kannons are not the main offender that people should be concerned about. Its smash guns......

They are significanlty chearper than traktor cannons and perform significanly better against everything thats not a flyer. These will cause problems in competitive scenes and were a huge oversight by GW. I maybe over-reacting myself but since I believe GW has stated that Points and rules wont get touched in a codex till 6 months after its release it might be a warped rough half year
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
I started saying it when the rumours came out...it's a really strong book. Extremely strong in many instances. If not a meta-toppling book, it's a good example of tremendous codex creep. It won't stop Ork players from complaining, but you will see some extremely stout performances in the tournament scene. If anything they're strong enough to be unfun to play in narrative or casual games with a strong build.


I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.


 sfshilo wrote:
This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.

An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.


 Xenomancers wrote:
It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.


Lol.

Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition

Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.

Don't ever change dakka.

Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
   
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So much hyperbole in this thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 21:49:55


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on the forum. Obviously

 Dr.Duck wrote:
meleti wrote:
There's no need to be cagey about it. Traktor kannons are good and there's nothing wrong with a codex having a good unit. People making comparisons to other factions are missing the point, though, because Orks are a very different army from AdMech or Space Marines. An Ork artillery unit fits into a very different context. You could make the same points about Necron Destroyers, but Necrons aren't exactly setting the competitive meta on fire right now despite how strong Destroyers are as a unit. And that's because other armies have tools that Necrons don't.





While I completely agree with this point ( context is everything and you cant compare everythign to a space marine psuedo equivalent and so one is stronger over the other) I feel that traktor kannons are not the main offender that people should be concerned about. Its smash guns......

They are significanlty chearper than traktor cannons and perform significanly better against everything thats not a flyer. These will cause problems in competitive scenes and were a huge oversight by GW. I maybe over-reacting myself but since I believe GW has stated that Points and rules wont get touched in a codex till 6 months after its release it might be a warped rough half year


Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.
Smasha guns are pretty powerful though. They probably need a points increase, maybe by 5.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.


Only if the target has a 4+ save or worse and no Invul. The Smasha wins out per point even against the KMK if it can utilise its full AP-4.

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 lord_blackfang wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.


Only if the target has a 4+ save or worse and no Invul. The Smasha wins out per point even against the KMK if it can utilise its full AP-4.


Bah, that's right, it has -4AP.
Which is pretty nuts for a 16 point weapon. Not even Gauss Cannons are that cheap, and they are -3AP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 01:00:46


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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.


Only if the target has a 4+ save or worse and no Invul. The Smasha wins out per point even against the KMK if it can utilise its full AP-4.


Bah, that's right, it has -4AP.
Which is pretty nuts for a 16 point weapon. Not even Gauss Cannons are that cheap, and they are -3AP.

Smashas are 31 points (you have to count the cost of the base unit, it's not like it's going to be doing anything else) with pretty poor defense (T5 5+) and no mobility. They're good, but not game changing (outside of giving orks a decent long range shooting unit).

The main issue people are going to run into is killing them with their souped-up knight castellan, which can only explode two of them a round, a sad 62 pt return for those used to reaping hundreds of points a shooting phase.

Traktors are really only decent if shooting at their preferred prey (flyers/stacked -to hit penalties), otherwise they are pretty underwhelming. They do about half as much damage per point to most other targets. And their overwatch should kill one random infantryman, then they never get to shoot again.
   
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 Grumblewartz wrote:
Orks are most certainly not a "deepstrike or die" army, unless you completely lack imagination imo. They are a combined-arms army, amazingly. A mix of tools to handle different opponents well. I prefer jumping/teleporting a mix of combat and shooting units to handle different threats and most importantly, control the board and objectives. Grots are cheap enough to screen a dedicated long-range support force - traktor kannons and lootas are perhaps the best for this. There is no auto-win or even mostly-win list in the new codex, which I prefer, but it is probable that they will mix up the local meta due to their flexibility and unpredictability.
This is what I was thinking also.

We are the army that marines have always wanted to be.

DaJump + Deep Strikers = drop pods
Cheapest screens in the game (marines would kill for this)
Lots of D6 Damage long range shooting
Chapter rules
Buffing psykers
Trukks = Rhinos but open topped
Smash Captains
Terminators that matter
Assault

And mostly the flexibility to do what it takes to get the job done.

   
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 Trimarius wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.


Only if the target has a 4+ save or worse and no Invul. The Smasha wins out per point even against the KMK if it can utilise its full AP-4.


Bah, that's right, it has -4AP.
Which is pretty nuts for a 16 point weapon. Not even Gauss Cannons are that cheap, and they are -3AP.

Smashas are 31 points (you have to count the cost of the base unit, it's not like it's going to be doing anything else) with pretty poor defense (T5 5+) and no mobility. They're good, but not game changing (outside of giving orks a decent long range shooting unit).

The main issue people are going to run into is killing them with their souped-up knight castellan, which can only explode two of them a round, a sad 62 pt return for those used to reaping hundreds of points a shooting phase.

Traktors are really only decent if shooting at their preferred prey (flyers/stacked -to hit penalties), otherwise they are pretty underwhelming. They do about half as much damage per point to most other targets. And their overwatch should kill one random infantryman, then they never get to shoot again.


Yes, they are 31 points each in total.
That's roughly half the cost of a KMK Mek Gun (60 points). Two of them are 62 points and are slightly more efficient against the targets you want the KMK to go against.
If they were 36 points then it wouldn't be as cost effective, as you'd be paying 72 points for a marginal increase in damage.
Its an internal balance thing, not external balance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 07:23:18


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 JimOnMars wrote:
 Grumblewartz wrote:
Orks are most certainly not a "deepstrike or die" army, unless you completely lack imagination imo. They are a combined-arms army, amazingly. A mix of tools to handle different opponents well. I prefer jumping/teleporting a mix of combat and shooting units to handle different threats and most importantly, control the board and objectives. Grots are cheap enough to screen a dedicated long-range support force - traktor kannons and lootas are perhaps the best for this. There is no auto-win or even mostly-win list in the new codex, which I prefer, but it is probable that they will mix up the local meta due to their flexibility and unpredictability.
This is what I was thinking also.

We are the army that marines have always wanted to be.

DaJump + Deep Strikers = drop pods
Cheapest screens in the game (marines would kill for this)
Lots of D6 Damage long range shooting
Chapter rules
Buffing psykers
Trukks = Rhinos but open topped
Smash Captains
Terminators that matter
Assault

And mostly the flexibility to do what it takes to get the job done.



Well most orc have BS +5, so i`m not sure how much effective their shooting will be. Gretchin are the some ppm like brimstone horrors and are only T2, the strat that sacrifice them for other infantry unit look interesting.
Still look like orc will depend on close combat to kill enemy units, they have some interesting ways to increase unit number of attacks and with the strat can fight second time.
Extra stickibombs strat also seem interesting if you have large unit trolling bombs on the enemy.
I guess players have to be creative when they design lists.
   
 
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