No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**hollow one**

Love the first post so far Jid. Without being nitty gritty about each unit ranking, I must insist that Boyz are Green.

I don't care if you think they've gotten worse (they haven't). They are going to be a staple in EVERY competitive list, and already showed up as a minimum of 90 in the first two successful lists this month. Gretchin are not better than boyz IMO, they are useful for a specific purpose (CP and grot shields) and otherwise not a good unit. This is deceptive for new/casual players as they will fill their troops with gretchin and wonder why they are losing every game since they have no boyz.

Gretchin serve a valuable purpose, but Boyz are the meat and bones of an army. This makes Boyz categorically better than Gretchin IMO. Everyone is just sick of running boyz, but that does not prevent them from being one of our best units.

Additionally, their versatility is outstanding: double shooting bad moon shootas, double attacking evil sun choppas, the best deep strike in the game (da jump and 8 inch rerollable), mob up to 40, green tide of traitors, obsec, increased durability with some klans, infinite attacks. All for a mere 7 ppm. Most armies would kill for access to boys and their stratagems.

They are green. Both in skin, and tier.

**Jidmah**

Thanks for all the praise, but most of the ranking I have taken from the_scotsman's analysis, except for those where I heavily disagreed or felt like it didn't reflect what other people were reporting for those units.

I will improve it with the critiques in here so far, just making the stupid rainbow structure and shortening all the texts took me hours.

What I want to have in the first post is an analysis for each klan, taking into account the klan's relic, warlord trait and stratagem, not just the kulture. Below that should be the units which benefit most from running that klan (TOP 5 or something) and klan-specific unit constallations like the redder armour mek or the deffskulls rokkit trukk boyz.
I feel this has more value to players new to orks than "take Evil Sund or Deff Skulls, everything else sucks".

**hollow one**

Yeah I'm with you. It might be worth discussing the stratagems in a meaningful way because they are easily the best thing in the book and typically encourage build-arounds.

I'm happy to give you a ranking of them if you'd like. And what units you should be excited when considering the stratagem.

**addnid**

Both our troops are great, for different reasons. Lootas without grots are imho very bad for example

**An Actual Englishman**

G00fySmiley wrote:
I disagree about the Boomdakka Snazzwagon I would call it an average unit in the codex.

The native -1 to hit on top of T6, 8 wounds, and a 4+ save make it pretty survivable.

it has a big shoota hitting on 4's, 2d6 grenades ignoring cover on 5'6, a pistol hitting on 4's (nto much but might throw an extra wound on a random unit helping fail a morale) and a 9 shot str 5 ap-2 weapon

it also explodes on a 4+ which can be used to your advantage. charge in deep, make sure its in combat with a few things at least and then explode doing bonus mortal wounds, reroll the explode dice with cp if necessary.

it is not on the same level as the dragsta or scrap jet sure, but its way better than the squiggbuggy and all of the other stuff in the yellow field.

I agree with this analysis also.

The squigbuggy is not on the same level as the Snazzwagon.

Also I want to petition that the Stompa is put into a category all on its own. That thing does not deserve to be in the red category and I'd hate to think a casual player read this and purchased one not realising how truly useless they are.

**hollow one**

addnid wrote:
Both our troops are great, for different reasons. Lootas without grots are imho very bad for example

I agree with you mate, which is why Boyz have no business being mid-tier. Gretchin are excellent too, but boyz are amazing. Every single outstanding stratagem we have, makes Boyz better.

Speaking of:

Spoiler:

**CthuluIsSpy**

To play devils advocate, the Squigbuggy, it seems to me, is a gap filler.
As it is versatile against different target types, it would seem that its meant to be used to cover any problem you are facing during a game.

Find yourself against heavy infantry you can't reach in time? Throw a biter. Against vehicles? Throw a bomb. Against light infantry? Throw a bile.

I think a lot of people are overlooking its range. It has 36" range, in an army that tends to be 18-24 range on average. You can threaten pretty much anything on the table on a mobile platform.
You also hit on a 4+ with its primary weapon, which can still proc DDD. It also has a smaller, less accurate version, which can either target another enemy type, or add damage against the first one.

And then you have the mine. Will you kill something with it? Probably not. Will you zone an area, stopping the enemy from going there? Probably yes.

So it does have some tactical function.
The main problem is its price. Most of the other buggies aren't in the triple digits.

Boyz are still good. They are the meat of the army, your bread and butter. A good army should have both gretchin and boyz.

**PiñaColada**

hollow one wrote:
addnid wrote:
Both our troops are great, for different reasons. Lootas without grots are imho very bad for example
I agree with you mate, which is why Boyz have no business being mid-tier. Gretchin are excellent too, but boyz are amazing. Every single outstanding stratagem we have, makes Boyz better.

Speaking of:

Spoiler:

I’ll spend some time explaining the Tier 1 and 2 goodness, and then just rank the remainder.

Within each Tier, stratagems are ordered from best to worst.

Tier 1: All-star. Build your army around this ability, use every turn if possible.
Mob Up: Our best stratagem. It's cheap, it enhances the ability of other stratagems/spells by allowing bigger units to be targeted, it reduces your kill points, and you can do some CRAZY things with it (e.g. mob up then charge from deepstrike). Boyz, Stormboyz, and Lootaz benefit most from this stratagem, but basically any unit you're going to Da Jump, Warpath, or use any stratagem on, use Mob Up first.
Showin' Off: Badmoons only. Double of output of a unit? Yeah sign me up. No brainer if you're shooting with 25 Lootas or 40 Shoota Boyz (that you Mob'd up).
Grot Shields: Want to protect your army when going second? Gretchin. Want to keep that Loota squad alive all game? Gretchin. Need that Tankbusta squad to survive before you Da Jump them? Gretchin. Need to fill some slots for ablative wounds in your Battlewagon with 10 Nobz in it? Gretchin. Need some more CP to use this ability more? Gretchin.
Get Stuck in, Ladz!: Boyz go waaaaaay up in price here, this helps you take hostages (tripoint) while also makes your Warboss on foot (or Ghazghkull) a dominant force to be reckoned with.
Unstoppable Green Tide: Boyz once again, this stratagem was so good the chaos version got nerfed and all they were using it on were useless cultists. This stratagem compels you to bring at least 1x30man squad of Boyz in every list. Using it to teleport your boys to join a Da Jump turn 1 might just be worth the 3CP alone in certain match-ups.
More Dakka: Anything that can receive Showin’ Off loves this stratagem. Heavy weapons, or when you are advancing with assault weapons will all shoot at max strength here. So any ork shooty unit, but not the ones that hit on 4+. So after you Da Jump your Lootas they can fire at max strength, or when you shoot your Tankbustas at a -3 flyer, you always hit on 5’s anyway.
Wreckers: Deathskulls only. Inferior to Showin’ Off mathematically (especially with More Dakka) and has poor target selection but this stratagem has the versatility to be used on melee units. So if you're building around this stratagem, you’ll be wanting a wealth of hits vs high armour. Boyz that are fighting twice vs a knight will enjoy this stratagem, also consider your largest blob of MANz or Nobz.

Tier 2: Outstanding. Use at least once per game, very efficient ability. Save your CP for these.
Tellyporta: We are the best deep-strikers in the game, but only if you’re Evil Sunz. You can’t just use this on everything and hope it works. I’d recommend not building around this stratagem, but instead using it for versatility and protection. 8” charges can still fail. There is an uncountable amount of exciting things you can do with this and it totally opens up our Codex, but MANz, Deff Dreads (to be offensive and quick) and Boyz (to protect them and have good board presence) benefit from it the most in my opinion.
Ramming Speed: Smite on a 2+ is reliable, great for charging characters even if you don’t need the 3d6 range. Your Deffkilla Wartrike, Bonebreaka, and Deffkoptas want to use this every turn, but anything you deep strike is also excited, Gorkanauts and Deff Dreads come to mind.
Orks is Never Beaten: Warboss on a Bike that you suicided into that knight is more than happy to die thanks to this. Any special character that is good is just so much better thanks to this: Zhadsnark, Ghazghkull, or even Snikrot.
Loot It!: With the FAQ, I think Nobz in Battlewagons want this ability the most, you’re talking space marine armour here. But anything in a Trukk is excited too. This ability is so efficient you might even consider bringing a Mek Gun or two just to die and beef up your backfield.
Skarboyz: Obviously this ability is good, but in some games it wont matter (either the Boyz will die too fast, delete what they charge anyway, or the str 5 might not even change the dice). Consider your opponent. Unfortunately you must be Goffs to use this.

Tier 3: Good. Mostly situational, but when you have the opportunity, you’re happy to spend the CP.
Drive-By Krumpin (on a Deffkilla Wartike)
Warphead
Extra Gubbinz (for 1 CP)
Dead Sneaky (on 20 Boyz)
Extra Stikkbombs (on Tankbustas)
Billowing Exhaust Cloud (on a Deffkilla Wartrike)
Medi-Squig (healing a Weirdboy)
Long, Uncontrollable Bursts (on a Dakkajet)

Teir 4: Borderline. Should be cheaper, rarely good, try to avoid.
Monster Hunters (unless you are bringing a brigade of Snakebites)
Snagga Grapple
Force-Field Projekta (why did you deploy wrong?)
Extra Gubbinz (for 3 CP)
Boarding Action
‘Ard Boys

Tier 5: Trap.
Kill-Kroozer Broadside (don’t do it….)

Some good write ups! I'd say that drive by krumpin' could be really good on deffkoptas situationally also. If you moved them aggressively to snipe a character but it's way too dangerous to actually stay there, spending 1CP to fly away 23" could be a life saver.
I think you can move boarding action to situational also. If you have a battlewagon filled with MANZ and there's a vehicle with a few wounds left it might be worth it to just spend the CP to kill the damn thing. It also works in either your or your opponents combat phase I think.

**An Actual Englishman**

hollow one wrote:
addnid wrote:
Both our troops are great, for different reasons. Lootas without grots are imho very bad for example
I agree with you mate, which is why Boyz have no business being mid-tier. Gretchin are excellent too, but boyz are amazing. Every single outstanding stratagem we have, makes Boyz better.

Speaking of:

Spoiler:

I’ll spend some time explaining the Tier 1 and 2 goodness, and then just rank the remainder.

Within each Tier, stratagems are ordered from best to worst.

Tier 1: All-star. Build your army around this ability, use every turn if possible.
Mob Up: Our best stratagem. It's cheap, it enhances the ability of other stratagems/spells by allowing bigger units to be targeted, it reduces your kill points, and you can do some CRAZY things with it (e.g. mob up then charge from deepstrike). Boyz, Stormboyz, and Lootaz benefit most from this stratagem, but basically any unit you're going to Da Jump, Warpath, or use any stratagem on, use Mob Up first.
Showin' Off: Badmoons only. Double of output of a unit? Yeah sign me up. No brainer if you're shooting with 25 Lootas or 40 Shoota Boyz (that you Mob'd up).
Grot Shields: Want to protect your army when going second? Gretchin. Want to keep that Loota squad alive all game? Gretchin. Need that Tankbusta squad to survive before you Da Jump them? Gretchin. Need to fill some slots for ablative wounds in your Battlewagon with 10 Nobz in it? Gretchin. Need some more CP to use this ability more? Gretchin.
Get Stuck in, Ladz!: Boyz go waaaaaay up in price here, this helps you take hostages (tripoint) while also makes your Warboss on foot (or Ghazghkull) a dominant force to be reckoned with.
Unstoppable Green Tide: Boyz once again, this stratagem was so good the chaos version got nerfed and all they were using it on were useless cultists. This stratagem compels you to bring at least 1x30man squad of Boyz in every list. Using it to teleport your boys to join a Da Jump turn 1 might just be worth the 3CP alone in certain match-ups.
More Dakka: Anything that can receive Showin’ Off loves this stratagem. Heavy weapons, or when you are advancing with assault weapons will all shoot at max strength here. So any ork shooty unit, but not the ones that hit on 4+. So after you Da Jump your Lootas they can fire at max strength, or when you shoot your Tankbustas at a -3 flyer, you always hit on 5’s anyway.
Wreckers: Deathskulls only. Inferior to Showin’ Off mathematically (especially with More Dakka) and has poor target selection but this stratagem has the versatility to be used on melee units. So if you're building around this stratagem, you’ll be wanting a wealth of hits vs high armour. Boyz that are fighting twice vs a knight will enjoy this stratagem, also consider your largest blob of MANz or Nobz.

Tier 2: Outstanding. Use at least once per game, very efficient ability. Save your CP for these.
Tellyporta: We are the best deep-strikers in the game, but only if you’re Evil Sunz. You can’t just use this on everything and hope it works. I’d recommend not building around this stratagem, but instead using it for versatility and protection. 8” charges can still fail. There is an uncountable amount of exciting things you can do with this and it totally opens up our Codex, but MANz, Deff Dreads (to be offensive and quick) and Boyz (to protect them and have good board presence) benefit from it the most in my opinion.
Ramming Speed: Smite on a 2+ is reliable, great for charging characters even if you don’t need the 3d6 range. Your Deffkilla Wartrike, Bonebreaka, and Deffkoptas want to use this every turn, but anything you deep strike is also excited, Gorkanauts and Deff Dreads come to mind.
Orks is Never Beaten: Warboss on a Bike that you suicided into that knight is more than happy to die thanks to this. Any special character that is good is just so much better thanks to this: Zhadsnark, Ghazghkull, or even Snikrot.
Loot It!: With the FAQ, I think Nobz in Battlewagons want this ability the most, you’re talking space marine armour here. But anything in a Trukk is excited too. This ability is so efficient you might even consider bringing a Mek Gun or two just to die and beef up your backfield.
Skarboyz: Obviously this ability is good, but in some games it wont matter (either the Boyz will die too fast, delete what they charge anyway, or the str 5 might not even change the dice). Consider your opponent. Unfortunately you must be Goffs to use this.

Tier 3: Good. Mostly situational, but when you have the opportunity, you’re happy to spend the CP.
Drive-By Krumpin (on a Deffkilla Wartike)
Warphead
Extra Gubbinz (for 1 CP)
Dead Sneaky (on 20 Boyz)
Extra Stikkbombs (on Tankbustas)
Billowing Exhaust Cloud (on a Deffkilla Wartrike)
Medi-Squig (healing a Weirdboy)
Long, Uncontrollable Bursts (on a Dakkajet)

Teir 4: Borderline. Should be cheaper, rarely good, try to avoid.
Monster Hunters (unless you are bringing a brigade of Snakebites)
Snagga Grapple
Force-Field Projekta (why did you deploy wrong?)
Extra Gubbinz (for 3 CP)
Boarding Action
‘Ard Boys

Tier 5: Trap.
Kill-Kroozer Broadside (don’t do it….)

Tellyporta has to be green surely? Its out best strat imo.

Get stuck in isn't as good as green IMO either. 3 CP to fight again after you've taken a hit first? Not convinced its worth it at the end of the phase. If you need something dead enough to use this strat, your units will take a beat down from whatever they're fighting and thus lose effectiveness.

I'd put Ramming Speed higher to compliment Tellyporta.

Warphead, Extra Stikkbombs and Billowing Exhaust cloud are all cyan for me. Warphead is possibly green in certain lists where they have many HQs.

Nice summary review though!

**PiñaColada**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
To play devils advocate, the Squigbuggy, it seems to me, is a gap filler.
As it is versatile against different target types, it would seem that its meant to be used to cover any problem you are facing during a game.

Find yourself against heavy infantry you can't reach in time? Throw a biter. Against vehicles? Throw a bomb. Against light infantry? Throw a bile.

I think a lot of people are overlooking its range. It has 36" range, in an army that tends to be 18-24 range on average. You can threaten pretty much anything on the table on a mobile platform.
You also hit on a 4+ with its primary weapon, which can still proc DDD. It also has a smaller, less accurate version, which can either target another enemy type, or add damage against the first one.

And then you have the mine. Will you kill something with it? Probably not. Will you zone an area, stopping the enemy from going there? Probably yes.

So it does have some tactical function.
The main problem is its price. Most of the other buggies aren't in the triple digits.

Boyz are still good. They are the meat of the army, your bread and butter. A good army should have both gretchin and boyz.

Literally all the buggies are triple digits. The problem is that you can take a KBB and spend 40 points on something else if you want more of a TAC role. So sure, the price is the problem but just random amount of decent shots aren't attractive to most people. The upside is placing down that smite but I also think that's why GW priced it so high, so people wouldn't get a bunch of squigbuggies and create smite walls

**CthuluIsSpy**

I think we are being too harsh to 'ard boyz.
Yes, its 2 CP, but if you use it on a max squad of boyz then you have 30 5+ saves.
If you use loot it that becomes 30 4+ saves. All for 210 points.

Now, if you use unstoppable green tide, unless the effects don't persist, that becomes 30 4+ saves that can come from any table edge and have a good chance of charging.

Will it be 6CP? Yes, but CP is meant to be used, and if it wins the game, does it really matter?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
To play devils advocate, the Squigbuggy, it seems to me, is a gap filler.
As it is versatile against different target types, it would seem that its meant to be used to cover any problem you are facing during a game.

Find yourself against heavy infantry you can't reach in time? Throw a biter. Against vehicles? Throw a bomb. Against light infantry? Throw a bile.

I think a lot of people are overlooking its range. It has 36" range, in an army that tends to be 18-24 range on average. You can threaten pretty much anything on the table on a mobile platform.
You also hit on a 4+ with its primary weapon, which can still proc DDD. It also has a smaller, less accurate version, which can either target another enemy type, or add damage against the first one.

And then you have the mine. Will you kill something with it? Probably not. Will you zone an area, stopping the enemy from going there? Probably yes.

So it does have some tactical function.
The main problem is its price. Most of the other buggies aren't in the triple digits.

Boyz are still good. They are the meat of the army, your bread and butter. A good army should have both gretchin and boyz.

Literally all the buggies are triple digits. The problem is that you can take a KBB and spend 40 points on something else if you want more of a TAC role. So sure, the price is the problem but just random amount of decent shots aren't attractive to most people. The upside is placing down that smite but I also think that's why GW priced it so high, so people wouldn't get a bunch of squigbuggies and create smite walls

Are they in triple digits? I don't have the book with me right now, but I could have sworn most of the buggies are just under 100.
Yes, KBB is good, but that depends on Ebay or getting the speed freaks box. Spending 100 just to get one model doesn't seem practical.

You can buy a single smasha gun for 40 points, which can take care of the targets KBB are inefficient against. You get D3 shots with that, compared to the amount of shots the buggy gets. Both are randomized.

**CaffeineIsGood**

Interesting thoughts!

Love to see where the squiggoths rank now in peoples opinion, they have dakka rules, and most klan rules now.

Also pressuming you take a warboss on warbike with relic klaw, and an augmenting weirdboy, what's the 2nd best option? warboss on warbike with relic big-choppa, or the wartrike?

Cheers!

**PiñaColada**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think we are being too harsh to 'ard boyz. [....]

Are they in triple digits? I don't have the book with me right now, but I could have sworn most of the buggies are just under 100.
Yes, KBB is good, but that depends on Ebay or getting the speed freaks box. Spending 100 just to get one model doesn't seem practical.

You can buy a single smasha gun for 40 points, which can take care of the targets KBB are inefficient against. You get D3 shots with that, compared to the amount of shots the buggy gets. Both are randomized.

The 'ard boyz strat should at the very least cost 1CP if the boyz unit is 20 or less strong. It's not terrible but spending 2CP in a CP-hungry army seems inadvisable..
Yes, all the buggies are 100 and up, wargear included.
KBB & Boomdakka 100, Megatrakk 110, Shokkjump & Deffkilla 120, Squigbuggy 140

**CthuluIsSpy**

PiñaColada wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think we are being too harsh to 'ard boyz. [....]

Are they in triple digits? I don't have the book with me right now, but I could have sworn most of the buggies are just under 100.
Yes, KBB is good, but that depends on Ebay or getting the speed freaks box. Spending 100 just to get one model doesn't seem practical.

You can buy a single smasha gun for 40 points, which can take care of the targets KBB are inefficient against. You get D3 shots with that, compared to the amount of shots the buggy gets. Both are randomized.

The 'ard boyz strat should at the very least cost 1CP if the boyz unit is 20 or less strong. It's not terrible but spending 2CP in a CP-hungry army seems inadvisable..
Yes, all the buggies are 100 and up, wargear included.
KBB & Boomdakka 100, Megatrakk 110, Shokkjump & Deffkilla 120, Squigbuggy 140

Huh, I must have missed wargear prices then.
Yeah, the 'ard boyz strat should have variable price, as you aren't going to spend 2CP to armor 10 boyz. However, Orks do have the ability to build CP batteries.
A couple of weirdboys and 3 units of 10 grots is what, less than a 200 points? That's +5 CP right there.

**pismakron**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

Huh, I must have missed wargear prices then.
Yeah, the 'ard boyz strat should have variable price, as you aren't going to spend 2CP to armor 10 boyz. However, Orks do have the ability to build CP batteries.
A couple of weirdboys and 3 units of 10 grots is what, less than a 200 points? That's +5 CP right there.

It is 254 points. But that is still pretty good, and neither weirdboyz nor grots are useless.

**PiñaColada**

2 weirdboys and 3x10 grots is 214 points for a base battalion. Also, Pismakron, your quote is screwed up since I didn't say that..

Edit: It's legal to give the tankbusta bomb to your kommando nob,right? Because strictly speaking it should be a specific model in every unit armed with it, not just whoever suits you best at that moment, correct?
Edit 2: Actually after rereading it, I guess the kommando nob can't take that tankbusta bomb. Shame, since I had an old tankbusta nob modeled like that..

**tneva82**

Yes bomb is on specific model. Which is why so far I have never used the bomb. I don't have any bomb models so no easy way to point out where the bomb is and I sure as hell can't just declare mid game which model it is.

**Marklarr**

Frowbakk wrote:
Ork Triple Battalion 1999 points, Battle Forged: + 3 CP (-3 CP for Extra Gubbinz) 13 CP left after list construction.

Spoiler:

Bad Moon Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 772 points [Re-roll 1’s in Shooting Phase]

.120 HQ Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord: Da Best Armor Dere Iz: 4++), Supa Cybork Body: 5+++

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warhpead w/ Da Jump, Fist of Gork (Buff Da Warlord)

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts]

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Grot Shields for Lootas, expect every single one of them to die in your opponents first turn)

.170 HEAVY 10 Lootas (Turn 1: 1 CP to Mob Up with other Lootas AFTER Finkin Kap deployed to get 6+ CP Farm’n)

.255 HEAVY 15 Lootas

[b]Evil Sunz Battalion[/b] (+5 CP) 907 points [+1” to Charges, +1” to Move (2” iff Speed Freeks)]

. 91 HQ Warboss on Warbike (Index) w/ Big Choppa = Headwoppa’s Killchoppa

.120 HQ Zhadsnark Da Ripper (Forge World) w/ Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota

.215 TROOP 30 Shoota Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 1: Da Jump’d/3CP to Unlimited Greed Tide ‘recycle’ in Turn 2)

.223 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 2: Da Jump’d after Mob Up)

. 75 TROOP 10 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, Tankbusta Bomb (Turn 2: 1 CP to Mob Up w/above)

.103 ELITE Painboy on Warbike (Index) w/’Urty Syringe, Power Klaw (1 CP to throw a Medi-Squig at Warlord)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (One to fly ahead with 3 Bikes & a Trike to keep them untargetable)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (Also a good source to buff Mob Up’d Choppa Boyz with Loot It! later in the game)

Blood Axe Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 320 points [Counts as in Cover > 18”, may Shoot OR Charge after Falling Back]

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warphead w/ Da Jump & Warpath

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts], Finkin Kap: I’ve Got a Plan, Ladz! (CP Farming on a 6+)

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Can’t be used for Grot Shields due to <CLAN> mismatch, therefore Objective Grabbers)

. 93 HEAVY Mek Gunz: 3x Smasha Kannons

The Evil Suns are there to charge, as supported by their Kulture.

The Bad Moons are there to shoot, as supported by their Kulture (I'll need to get a dice-rolling app to be kind to my opponents).

The Blood Axes are there to be sneaky gits. (Tactics ain’t a breath mint, y’all…)

Spoiler:

Everything should be deployed under a KFF's 5++ protection so no need to waste CP on Prepared Positions even if going second. So much better than trying to improve 6+ saves which can still be whittled away by AP.

For the Evil Sunz Battalion: 3 Bikes & a Trike (OK, so he’s a Bad Moon, but still…) should get off a first turn charge on something, Biker Painboy should keep 'em in combat a little longer. 30 Shoota Boyz can get Warpath’d and Da Jump’d into a first turn multi-charge into units weak enough in close combat (Tanks/Artillery/etc.) so a few survive in order to be recycled with 3 CP the next turn where the reappear 'Outflanking' and able to shoot away again. Turn 2 the 10 Choppa Boyz can Mob Up with 30 Choppa Boyz, and get Warpath'd and Da Jump'd into probable charge range of whatever the Bikes & Trike didn't kill and Heroically Intervene into during my opponent's turn.

As for the Bad Moonz, the Big Mek with the KFF is there to hide behind the Choppa Boyz mobs and be untargetable while KFF escorting the Evil Sunz boyz and both Weirdboyz. Good thing KFF's and Psyker shenanigans don't care about <CLAN> mismatches. The Lootas are to find anywhere (preferably in cover) with good lines of fire, Mob Up into a unit of 25 first thing and Dakka ad infinitius, uber alles, ad nauseam.

The Blood Axe Big Mek with the Finkin Kap will cover the Lootas under his KFF umbrella and keep the CP farm going as long as possible. He can also repair the Smasha Guns, and for his graduate studies project in sneaky-gitted-ness; have the Mob Up’d Lootas use Loot It! on a destroyed Smasha Gun, have the Lootas refund the CP for it on a 4+ AND farm the CP on a 6+. Remember the (preferably in cover) from just above? That way the Lootas can get a 4+ regular save to help them stick around even longer once all of those Gretchin have been used up by Grot Shields, so deploy those Smasha Guns nearby.

Extra sneaky git shenanigan-ness: The Deffkilla Wartike can move again at the end of the Shooting Phase (your own, not your opponents… don’t be THAT guy…) with the Stratagem: Drive By Krumpin', but is not allowed to charge. However, as a Character the Defkilla Wartrike may still Heroically Intervene its' way into combat. A loophole in the rules big enough to drive a Defkilla Wartike through, conveniently enough.

Your opponent have an annoying Character buffing nearby units? Consider sniping with Deff Koptas by either moving close enough so that character is the closest target, or by using Ramming Speed and putting some Mortal Wounds on ‘em.

I'm really looking forward to playing Orks.

Im not too sure that the drive by Krumpin strat is worded incorrectly and should be taken as it’s worded. The only oversight probably being, in my opinion, the unit can not charge or heroically intervene this turn. It would just seem strange to me if it was any other way, considering how specific all the other stratagems are with when and how you can use them.......or I’m wrong and it’s a complete oversight by GW

**PiñaColada**

I mean, you can't perform a heroic intervention in your own turn can you? So I fail to see how this is even a combo. If you could, then why would you ever charge and be subject to overwatch with your characters?

The rulebook states: "After a player has moved all their charging models, the other players can attempt to perform Heroic Interventions in an order decided by the player whose turn it is [...]"
Emphasis mine, page 270

**tneva82**

PiñaColada wrote:
I mean, you can't perform a heroic intervention in your own turn can you? So I fail to see how this is even a combo. If you could, then why would you ever charge and be subject to overwatch with your characters?

The rulebook states: "After a player has moved all their charging models, the other players can attempt to perform Heroic Interventions in an order decided by the player whose turn it is [...]"
Emphasis mine, page 270

Italics for interesting part I have never noticed and whom nobody I have played with using. Everybody just plays so that character is moved by owner in their owner. And certainly faster way to play. With 8th ed already being slow as hell edition good thing.

**Jidmah**

Grotrebel wrote:
Great Job Jidmah, I agree almost a 100% with your rainbow table.
Would only have changed the following:

Wyrdboy: Green - Still awesome, is popping a lot less then with the index boost, on the other side D6 smite got more rare as well. But the cheap costs combined with warphead and the psychic powers really makes up for it.

Agree, he is definitely above the rest of the cyan category. Changed in OP.

Painboy: Blue or even turquese - Adds a good potion of durability for your hordes of grotz and boys, and just one or two safed flash gitz, nobs or whatever get his points instantly back; and you can heal those popping warpheads, with strategem even twice or help some warboss or Ghazgkull if things get ugly. He was worth his points every single game for me, yellow is a bit harsh imo.

The size of the aura is low, the 6+ roll is very unreliable and saving one in every six wounds dealt to orks struggle to ever make him worth his points. Yellow is the category for things that do what they are supposed to do, but aren't great choices in general.

(Runtherd): Maybe yellow? There are a lot of grots around these days, so i can see his use somewhere. Have to admit i just let my grot die instead of getting him, but i am not spamming them as much as some other lists i`ve seen around.

A warboss can do everything a runtherd can do and more. I can't think of a scenario where buying more gretchin isn't superior to getting a runtherd.

(Mini Mek) Yellow as well? Cheap slot filler for the brigade or relict bearer (evil sunz), otherwise i use him for camping and backyard screening, if my model count goes low. Maybe not enough for yellow, but I felt is was worth noting.

Cheap elite choice for brigades is something I have not thought of. Moving him to yellow.

And, for the remaining stuff:

Buggies: Red - more expensive then koptas, which are also better. Only advantage over the kopta is the additional wound and the vehicle keyword, to trigger "loot it" or the mortal wound charge strategem.

Koptas are vehicles as well. So zero advantage. Added them to red.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madmacs wrote:
Is there a breakdown of the color codes for good/meh/bad? I may have missed it. Thanks in advance.

Green is best, red is worst. This is something that has been around dakka since some time in 5th. Personally not a huge fan of it, but in the past multiple people requested these when I started the previous tatics threads.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
G00fySmiley wrote:
I disagree about the Boomdakka Snazzwagon I would call it an average unit in the codex.

The native -1 to hit on top of T6, 8 wounds, and a 4+ save make it pretty survivable.

it has a big shoota hitting on 4's, 2d6 grenades ignoring cover on 5'6, a pistol hitting on 4's (nto much but might throw an extra wound on a random unit helping fail a morale) and a 9 shot str 5 ap-2 weapon

it also explodes on a 4+ which can be used to your advantage. charge in deep, make sure its in combat with a few things at least and then explode doing bonus mortal wounds, reroll the explode dice with cp if necessary.

it is not on the same level as the dragsta or scrap jet sure, but its way better than the squiggbuggy and all of the other stuff in the yellow field.

I agree with this analysis also.

The squigbuggy is not on the same level as the Snazzwagon.

Also I want to petition that the Stompa is put into a category all on its own. That thing does not deserve to be in the red category and I'd hate to think a casual player read this and purchased one not realising how truly useless they are.

We did the math in a previous thread and its shooting is slightly below that of the squig buggy and lacking the mine. It's also strictly worse than the KBB, so red is the right category in my book - from a strictly competitive point of view, you should not be getting snazzwagons.

Even if it's not as bad as the squig buggy, it's definitely not in the same league as Warbosses, Painboyz or Killa Kanz.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollow one wrote:
Love the first post so far Jid. Without being nitty gritty about each unit ranking, I must insist that Boyz are Green.

I don't care if you think they've gotten worse (they haven't). They are going to be a staple in EVERY competitive list, and already showed up as a minimum of 90 in the first two successful lists this month. Gretchin are not better than boyz IMO, they are useful for a specific purpose (CP and grot shields) and otherwise not a good unit. This is deceptive for new/casual players as they will fill their troops with gretchin and wonder why they are losing every game since they have no boyz.

Gretchin serve a valuable purpose, but Boyz are the meat and bones of an army. This makes Boyz categorically better than Gretchin IMO. Everyone is just sick of running boyz, but that does not prevent them from being one of our best units.

Additionally, their versatility is outstanding: double shooting bad moon shootas, double attacking evil sun choppas, the best deep strike in the game (da jump and 8 inch rerollable), mob up to 40, green tide of traitors, obsec, increased durability with some klans, infinite attacks. All for a mere 7 ppm. Most armies would kill for access to boys and their stratagems.

They are green. Both in skin, and tier.

Compelling argument. Boyz moved to green.

**TedNugent**

Jidmah,

One thing I think you're missing with the standard warboss, is that the fight twice strategem can only be used on infantry units.

A warboss with da Killa klaw, and brutal but kunning, has 5 attacks, with rerollable hits, rerollable wounds, and 4 damage per attack. You can then fight twice, and if the warboss dies, you can fight a third time. This enables him to reliably oneshot superheavies.

While the warbiker boss is much faster, more flexible, and more frightening for general use, that fight twice strat applies only to infantry models. And on the killiest model on the board against titans, I consider that of great significance.

Also, please consider that a footboss gets objective secured in a deathskull list, and can also be included in a transport using the tellyporting strategem to essentially deepstrike him in with the unit of your choice (BW full of meganobs, with waaagh, anyone?).

That said, they really do need to make a basic 5++ invulnerable save available for bosses again...

Also, please consider that meganobz and nobs, tankbustas, Lootas are objective secured in a deathskulls detachment. This makes true boys free lists quite possible.

**tneva82**

TedNugent wrote:
Jidmah,

One thing I think you're missing with the standard warboss, is that the fight twice strategem can only be used on infantry units.

A warboss with da Killa klaw, and brutal but kunning, has 5 attacks, with rerollable hits, rerollable wounds, and 4 damage per attack. You can then fight twice, and if the warboss dies, you can fight a third time. This enables him to reliably oneshot superheavies.

Fight twice is end of fight phase. If he dies and fights with it unsurprisingly you can't then attack at the end of fight phase as...well you are dead. So max he fights is twice. Whether by "fight again" or "I died so one last huzah" is up to what enemy can do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:

A warboss can do everything a runtherd can do and more. I can't think of a scenario where buying more gretchin isn't superior to getting a runtherd.

Warboss is what 2x as expensive babysitter for backfield grots. If you have say 30 grots to screen those lootas either they are 3x10 or 1x30 and either way without babysitter morale is going to be issue. With runtherd or warboss morale is non-issue with 30 mob. And warboss is rather expensive baby sitter...About only thing speaking for that is that he's still one of the cheapest HQ's so for triple battallion list you might have one to spare for that. Especially if index isn't allowed. What else would be cheap HQ's? Trike expensive, MA big mek expensive. SAG big mek is pretty much only option besides warboss so you easily end up with 3 warboss so one cheap one sitting at backfield could be doable tax.

**PiñaColada**

A runtherd is also a character so with deathskullz he has obsec, that coupled with character targeting rules means he can be pretty annoying to shift. One of those little things that might win you a game here and there

**Jidmah**

I really do not want to consider any klan traits for any models, because Death Skulls, Bad Moons and Evil Suns heavily warp what units are good and which are not. You could basically do different a rainbow for every klan, which is useful to almost no one.

As for any other unit, as long as I get a compelling argument why some unit should be further up/down I will change it. The goal of the rainbow list is not to reflect my opinion, but to give people with new or little experience with orks an overview. Most of the content is taken from the_scotsmans analysis, with some stuff added by myself and the old thread.

If you want to write up a klan section please use a this template:

Clan
Kulture - Description
Relic - Description
Warlord Trait - Description
Stratagem - Description
Named Character - Description
Units that benefit most from <Clan>
1) Datasheet - reason why/how to use them
2) Datasheet - reason why/how to use them
3) Datasheet - reason why/how to use them
4) Datasheet - reason why/how to use them
5) Datasheet - reason why/how to use them

(quote to get the tempalte, replace white with one of the five rainboy colors)

**PiñaColada**

Perhaps the units can have a "consider running them as: Bad moons, eil sunz, whatever" in their description. I feel like that could help the necomers quite a bit without too much cluttering. Just a thought

Edit: Ugh, this reading thing is tough evidently. Just saw what you rote Jidmah. That would make my suggestion unnecessary

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

A warboss can do everything a runtherd can do and more. I can't think of a scenario where buying more gretchin isn't superior to getting a runtherd.

Warboss is what 2x as expensive babysitter for backfield grots. If you have say 30 grots to screen those lootas either they are 3x10 or 1x30 and either way without babysitter morale is going to be issue. With runtherd or warboss morale is non-issue with 30 mob. And warboss is rather expensive baby sitter...About only thing speaking for that is that he's still one of the cheapest HQ's so for triple battallion list you might have one to spare for that. Especially if index isn't allowed. What else would be cheap HQ's? Trike expensive, MA big mek expensive. SAG big mek is pretty much only option besides warboss so you easily end up with 3 warboss so one cheap one sitting at backfield could be doable tax.

I would just not put any characters with them. If someone decides to start shooting grots, let them. If they kill 5 gretchin and nother 5 explode to moral, you still have very good chances that he didn't make his points back. Then just shove the 10 gretchin you bought instead of the runther in their place.

The warboss comment was more aimed at gretchin near the front of our army used as charge screens or similar, since there is little effort involved in just stretching a grot or two in the direction of the warboss you were bringing anyways.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
Perhaps the units can have a "consider running them as: Bad moons, eil sunz, whatever" in their description. I feel like that could help the necomers quite a bit without too much cluttering. Just a thought

The raindbow design falls appart if you put too much text behind each unit. It was hard enough to shorten the texts as it is.

**koooaei**

Meganobz are definitely green. They're great for what they cost. Yes, they somewhat interfere with target priority but they hit hard enough and are durable enough to make the game swing your way. Especially after you manage to deal with the majority of multi-damage weapons.

Painboy is better than yelow. Maybe teal. Still quite useful for fixing up your characters and protecting units around.

I also disagree with buggies and planes being teal. They are not bad but are too expensive and won't fit in any list. I think they're blue.

Btw. Why new thread? There is one allready.

**Jidmah**

About ten people requested a new thread with a properly made OP.

**PiñaColada**

Jidmah wrote:

-SNIP-

I'll fill in some of these things on Evil Sunz quickly. I have to go do real life stuff pretty soon so see these more as building blocks to get started on.

Clan
Evil Sunz- Getting +1 to Move (+2 for <speed freekz>, Advance & Charges is huge and you'll always want to advance with ES since there's literally no penalty for it. Consider this kultur for deepstrike heavy lists, foot slogging infantry, bikes&deffkoptas and bonebreakas. This Kultur is a useful building block as part of a bigger Ork soup, but since they have no real benefits to shooting plenty of units gain nothing from it and are better suited using other Kulturs.
Rezmekka's redder armour - Sort of an odd relic, getting that +1 to move is probably the big gain here since the mortal wounds happen at the beginning of your movement phase. Meaning you opponent can always back out of combat. Try using it on a mini-mek in a bonebreaka, those get stronger on the charge so it could at least force your opponent into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Could be worth an extra CP to get this one, but overall there are stronger relics out there.
Speed Freek - Enables your entire fleet of vehicles to hit&run(& hit again). Consider putting this on you warbike/wartrike warlord if you've found them to be too squishy in close combat. Synergises well with bonebreakas because they get stronger on the charge, megatrakks because of mortal wounds and deffkoptas since they can still shoot after falling back because of fly. It's not bad but you're giving up a lot of offensive output on the warlord to gain this new trick.
Drive-by Krumpin' - Enables an Evil Sunz <Speed Freek> unit to move again at the end of the shooting phase. The speed freek requirement means no transport can use this, but it could be useful to reposition your deffkoptas after having moved them up to snipe a character. Also note that you can use this to move a unit up, shoot with it and then move back onto an objective and still have it count as defended the objective that turn. Cheap at 1CP and every now and then you'll find a use for it.

Super quick and dirty review of the things, don't know if you want them in a shorter format but at the very least they can work as placeholders I suppose.. I might have time later tonight to write about some units but otherwise I'm sure several people on here know full well which units work well with ES