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**Backfire**

robzidious wrote:
My god it has been forever since I actually logged into Dakka. But I came here to post this reply once I was alerted that this thread was made.

Dash, you don't know me. I don't know you. I know your history, however, as it is very much well documented by people whose integrity I value and trust. I am only posting on here and replying to you because you apparently live in north Florida. Why does that matter? Well because I am a TO in south Alabama. Events I run get tons of players from the north Florida region. Once you start perusing around the circuit finding events and figuring out how that works now, you'll end up seeing RTTs I host on the calendar. Skip them. You are not welcome at events I run. Do not come. Do not register. These events are usually held in Enterprise or Dothan, AL. So, if you see an event on the calendar in those areas, don't register. Don't come under a pseudonym and try to be clever either. I will simply boot you from my event which will just end up being a waste of your time and mine. I mean this with the utmost truest sincerity. I can't speak for other event organizers in this region, only events I run. You are not welcome to attend them.

Good luck in whatever pursuits you fancy.

I strongly recommend everyone not to participate in any events this guy runs. I certainly wouldn't touch them with a ten foot long pole. As someone who sometimes works as a referee in a sport, I am aware of some of the integrity requirements for fair and even ref'ing, and with that kind of attitude none of those boxes check.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Backfire wrote:
At the time there was no clear ruling whether it was legal (he did same with DE Raiders, which was equally controversial). Nowadays it is of course illegal, and with hindsight should have been clearly illegal back then too.

I do not know how vehicles pivot in 8th edition, nor move. I vaguely understand that vehicles must offload troops before any movement now...but I need to learn the rules. If that "lack of clarity" from a 5th edition rule, and all other unclear rules are now made clear - then I applaud!

Current ruling is that units 'movement' is entire distance it covers durings it movement phase, including any pivoting. Ie. if tanks maximum movement is 12", then no part of it may end up more than 12 inches away from its starting point. Back in the day, there was no such clear ruling over this matter as I recall.

**JohnHwangDD**

@Dash - you have been peremptively banned from one circuit. Arguing only proves him correct.

I may not be the most social guy, buy even I get that.

The correct response probably goes more like this:

I'm sorry that you don't want me at your events, based on my previous behavior. I accept your decision as TO, but hope to show that I'm a better person than I was, and maybe I can buy you a beer to talk it over some time.

But if you are going to argue with the guy, how is that going to show how you are doing better?

**Sasori**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Sasori wrote:You've gotten two threads locked so far Dash. Maybe try to dial things back a bit, your reintroduction is not going great so far.

Hello! I challenge your assumptions, and ask you to question the value of presenting that information out of context. For example, this thread is locked. I started it. I didn't get it locked. Ingtaer identified that it was in the wrong sub-forum. I do not know if Dakka moderators can move threads or not. He posted that it was in the wrong sub-forum and locked it. That thread now exists here where it arguably belongs instead.

Did you not know, or are you presenting it in that fashion to paint me as a troublemaker? If you didn't know, why did you present the information with the assumption of intent on my behalf? Honest question. In another age, I would have jumped to the conclusion that you are attempting to sway public opinion against me - but in learning how to challenge my assumptions and not assume intent, honest question for you. I am truly not attacking your intent; I am just asking what your intent is.

Dash,

You are right, I did not see the spam thread you made reopened. I'll revise the numbers, you've only gotten one thread locked so far.

As for painting you in any light or swaying public opinion, I don't plan or need to do anything of the sort. You already are doing that yourself, just look at the tournament thread post that led to the lock. Do you really think you are starting off on a good foot with posts like that? I would ask that you tone down responses like you made in that thread.

**JohnHwangDD**

Backfire wrote:
robzidious wrote:
My god it has been forever since I actually logged into Dakka. But I came here to post this reply once I was alerted that this thread was made.

Dash, you don't know me. I don't know you. I know your history, however, as it is very much well documented by people whose integrity I value and trust. I am only posting on here and replying to you because you apparently live in north Florida. Why does that matter? Well because I am a TO in south Alabama. Events I run get tons of players from the north Florida region. Once you start perusing around the circuit finding events and figuring out how that works now, you'll end up seeing RTTs I host on the calendar. Skip them. You are not welcome at events I run. Do not come. Do not register. These events are usually held in Enterprise or Dothan, AL. So, if you see an event on the calendar in those areas, don't register. Don't come under a pseudonym and try to be clever either. I will simply boot you from my event which will just end up being a waste of your time and mine. I mean this with the utmost truest sincerity. I can't speak for other event organizers in this region, only events I run. You are not welcome to attend them.

Good luck in whatever pursuits you fancy.

I strongly recommend everyone not to participate in any events this guy runs. I certainly wouldn't touch them with a ten foot long pole. As someone who sometimes works as a referee in a sport, I am aware of some of the integrity requirements for fair and even ref'ing, and with that kind of attitude none of those boxes check.

Did you even read what the TO wrote?

The TO was alerted by local members of Dakka who didn't want to play with Dash. He is simply the messenger for his community, to whom he is directly accountable. If your players told you a troublemaker might be attending your events, you wouldn't address it beforehand?

**Backfire**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Did you even read what the TO wrote?

The TO was alerted by local members of Dakka who didn't want to play with Dash. He is simply the messenger for his community, to whom he is directly accountable. If your players told you a troublemaker might be attending your events, you wouldn't address it beforehand?

I did very well. Everything he said is anathema to good officiating.

In the sport I ref, there are several known gamesmen who sometimes demonstrate stretching of rules and questionable sportsmanship. I know these people because they have been pointed out to me "by people whose integrity I value and trust". What do I do when I need to supervise and judge their performance?

Answer: I observe their performances like everybody else's, follow the rules and penalize them if there are grounds for that. If they happen to display very poor sportsmanship or break the rules, I have power to DQ them if necessary, and I can also report them to higher authorities for more consequences if it comes to that.That is fair and correct officiating.

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

**robzidious**

Backfire wrote:

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

I couldn't care less about whether you attend any events I organize or run honestly. But if you think my decision was reached as some sort of means to shield my players from losing games of 40k, you couldn't be any more wrong. We have players from all across the southeastern United States that attend events I run. The decision was made because of this players well documented troubled past in events. Those sorts of players are not welcome in events I organize and run.

**Dashofpepper**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
@Dash - you have been peremptively banned from one circuit. Arguing only proves him correct.

I may not be the most social guy, buy even I get that.

The correct response probably goes more like this:

I'm sorry that you don't want me at your events, based on my previous behavior. I accept your decision as TO, but hope to show that I'm a better person than I was, and maybe I can buy you a beer to talk it over some time.

But if you are going to argue with the guy, how is that going to show how you are doing better?

I thought that's what I said. *rereads* Wait....what I think I said was, "What behavior is it, because I don't know what to fix?"

Is that the message, or did my intent get lost?

@Rob: If you didn't get that message, that's what I meant:

I'm sorry that you don't want me at your events. I really am. I'm sorry if I offended someone....I'm in the middle of trying to understand WHY I offend people, which is why I am asking all of these questions. I'd be happy to buy you a beer and talk about it, or you can air my dirty laundry in public too. If you're willing to tell me what happened, what I did, and why it offended, I will turn that into a learning experience.

@John - thanks for that. That's what this whole thing is about - trying to figure out why what I say offends people. *EDIT* Now YOU get a beer. <Ork Grog Emote>

*double edit* It just dawned on me that could PM these two guys and ask them to tell me more instead of doing it on a thread. Give me time.

**Not Online!!!**

robzidious wrote:
Backfire wrote:

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

I couldn't care less about whether you attend any events I organize or run honestly. But if you think my decision was reached as some sort of means to shield my players from losing games of 40k, you couldn't be any more wrong. We have players from all across the southeastern United States that attend events I run. The decision was made because of this players well documented troubled past in events. Those sorts of players are not welcome in events I organize and run.

So you have not known him, only heard of him, from "trusted" players?
And therefore just prematurely judge without verification or propper documentation ?

I mean Yeah sure you can do that but the behaviour seems questionable and stinks of bias, and you can't deny that.

**JohnHwangDD**

Backfire wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:

Did you even read what the TO wrote?

The TO was alerted by local members of Dakka who didn't want to play with Dash. He is simply the messenger for his community, to whom he is directly accountable. If your players told you a troublemaker might be attending your events, you wouldn't address it beforehand?

I did very well. Everything he said is anathema to good officiating.

In the sport I ref, there are several known gamesmen who sometimes demonstrate stretching of rules and questionable sportsmanship. I know these people because they have been pointed out to me "by people whose integrity I value and trust". What do I do when I need to supervise and judge their performance?

Answer: I observe their performances like everybody else's, follow the rules and penalize them if there are grounds for that. If they happen to display very poor sportsmanship or break the rules, I have power to DQ them if necessary, and I can also report them to higher authorities for more consequences if it comes to that.That is fair and correct officiating.

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

As Dash might put it, one hopes that your officiating ability is s greater than the level reading comprehension that you are clearly failing to demonstrate. At no point did the TO say that he was blocking Dash because he was a good player. It's obvious that he's doing it because Dash has a history of being a disruptive or unpleasant player. As the manager of the event, he is well within his rights to do that. if his community has a problem worth it, I'm sure they'll let him know.

Personally, if I were running events and Stelek had wanted to attend, I'd block him for the same reason. And if someone had wanted me out, I'd have respected that (my Sports scores weren't the best, either).

To suggest that it's about potential competition over demonstrated behavior is grossly improper, and the fact that you frame things that way strongly suggests that I wouldn't want to attend any events that you were officiating.

**Dashofpepper**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Personally, if I were running events and Stelek had wanted to attend, I'd block him for the same reason. And if someone had wanted me out, I'd have respected that (my Sports scores weren't the best, either).

That's fair, because there is documented evidence - that I can produce upon request - of Stelek cheating, or being disruptive (for example). It is me under discussion, and I desire to see the same evidence produced because I cannot recollect any instances of it, and I need to either remember or understand it.

**robzidious**

Not Online!!! wrote:
robzidious wrote:
Backfire wrote:

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

I couldn't care less about whether you attend any events I organize or run honestly. But if you think my decision was reached as some sort of means to shield my players from losing games of 40k, you couldn't be any more wrong. We have players from all across the southeastern United States that attend events I run. The decision was made because of this players well documented troubled past in events. Those sorts of players are not welcome in events I organize and run.

So you have not known him, only heard of him, from "trusted" players?
And therefore just prematurely judge without verification or propper documentation ?

I mean Yeah sure you can do that but the behaviour seems questionable and stinks of bias, and you can't deny that.

No. Trusted tournament organizers. Many of which are well known to the masses. I don't know if you are aware of this thing called the ITC code of conduct? Committing offenses which now could result in a ban of ITC events? Not just the event you got DQd from but potentially other events as well? I suppose people that follow this guideline are doing so because of some personal bias as well? Granted Dashs actions occurred long before the code of conduct was even a thought in anyone's mind the point remains the same. And his feigning ignorance of past offenses isn't helping his case either. I would not even bother commenting on this post were it not for the locality and proximity of his location and the fact that when it comes to competitive events our location is one of the few in that general area that runs ITC events regularly.

So call it what you want. But understand that the decision I made was not based on some ignorant bias. It was made based on discussions between fellow TOs across the country.

**Byte**

Not Online!!! wrote:
robzidious wrote:
Backfire wrote:

Bad officiating is to protect my clique of friends and use my position to block 'wrong' people from winning so my friends can satisfy their egoes by maintaining their position as big fishes in a small pond.

I couldn't care less about whether you attend any events I organize or run honestly. But if you think my decision was reached as some sort of means to shield my players from losing games of 40k, you couldn't be any more wrong. We have players from all across the southeastern United States that attend events I run. The decision was made because of this players well documented troubled past in events. Those sorts of players are not welcome in events I organize and run.

So you have not known him, only heard of him, from "trusted" players?
And therefore just prematurely judge without verification or propper documentation ?

I mean Yeah sure you can do that but the behaviour seems questionable and stinks of bias, and you can't deny that.

Considering you joined Dakka in 2018 there's no way you could understand the angst involved with a lot of parties around the whole US. How about you allow Dash to fix his own bed he messed up. His all grown up and everything.

I was skeptical, but I understand people can change. I'm actually still not convinced. I'm still trying to figure out if this isn't one big troll job to entertain himself...

If so. Bravo!

**Dashofpepper**

Byte wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out if this isn't one big troll job to entertain himself...

I'm not trolling. I legitimately am curious to see what documentation Rob might produce, in private or in person. He's claimed that it is weighty, and I *need* to know. If I've been a **** I need someone to walk me through it in baby steps, because ... three pages later ... I always assumed people *did* understand, and were just trolling me. Some particularly inflammatory things may have been said in this thread even. You knew me. I think. Or at least my posting on Dakka. Think of what Rob said.

The old Dash would have written a five page, immaculately crafted dissertation with infallible logic about why Rob was wrong. There would then be three pages about why he was <insert personal attack of choice> without ever saying those words.

The new Dash....just wants to know why Rob said the things he said, and get to the bottom of it so I can fix it, move on, and get to the next one.

**JohnHwangDD**

Dashofpepper wrote:
The new Dash....just wants to know why Rob said the things he said, and get to the bottom of it so I can fix it, move on, and get to the next one.

In that case, just PM him and address it there. Nobody but you needs that detail.

**Dashofpepper**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:
The new Dash....just wants to know why Rob said the things he said, and get to the bottom of it so I can fix it, move on, and get to the next one.

In that case, just PM him and address it there. Nobody but you needs that detail.

I did! I actually messaged a few people a few hours ago.

That might be another fundamental....learning how to take a sidebar offline. So to speak.

**JohnHwangDD**

OK, fair enough then.

**Byte**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Byte wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out if this isn't one big troll job to entertain himself...

I'm not trolling. I legitimately am curious to see what documentation Rob might produce, in private or in person. He's claimed that it is weighty, and I *need* to know. If I've been a **** I need someone to walk me through it in baby steps, because ... three pages later ... I always assumed people *did* understand, and were just trolling me. Some particularly inflammatory things may have been said in this thread even. You knew me. I think. Or at least my posting on Dakka. Think of what Rob said.

The old Dash would have written a five page, immaculately crafted dissertation with infallible logic about why Rob was wrong. There would then be three pages about why he was <insert personal attack of choice> without ever saying those words.

The new Dash....just wants to know why Rob said the things he said, and get to the bottom of it so I can fix it, move on, and get to the next one.

Fair. Not untrue.

I am equal parts enthralled and frustrated by this thread.

Math expresses a series of universal constants, and where linguistic limitations and subjective opinions create divergent perceptions, math can get people to see each other's points of view. Seeing this conversation continue is engrossing.

On the flip side, logical fallacies - which are fundamental failures in critical thinking skills - so called because they are such common errors in reasoning that they get fancy names - are rife in here. I keep seeing the same four logical fallacies propagated in this thread.

For example, an "Ad Hominem" logical fallacy:

When people think of “arguments,” often their first thought is of shouting matches riddled with personal attacks. Ironically, personal attacks run contrary to rational arguments. In logic and rhetoric, personal attacks are called ad hominems. Ad hominem is Latin for “against the man.” Instead of advancing good sound reasoning, ad hominems replace logical argumentation with attack-language unrelated to the truth of the matter. More specifically, ad hominems are a fallacy of relevance where someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue.

An ad hominem is more than just an insult. It’s an insult used as if it were an argument or evidence in support of a conclusion. Verbally attacking people proves nothing about the truth or falsity of their claims. Ad hominems are common known in politics as “mudslinging.” Instead of addressing the candidate’s stance on the issues, or addressing his or her effectiveness as a statesman or stateswoman, ad hominems focus on personality issues, speech patterns, wardrobe, style, and other things that affect popularity but have no bearing on their competence. In this way, ad hominems can be unethical, seeking to manipulate voters by appealing to irrelevant foibles and name-calling instead of addressing core issues.

I also see some Strawman arguments, a couple appeals to authority, a couple of false dilemmas ....

Anyway; I hope you guys will think about the intellectual weight of the opinions you posit through the filter of reason.

However, I just saw that written in classic a DoP point of view.

Lol, I don't know man. I just dont think you can like people or their opinions. Thats ok. Just accept it.

**Zid**

You suck.

Oh, welcome back....

jk about you sucking.... or am I?

**Dodiez**

Hey everyone, I wasn't going to do this, but I guess I changed my mind. I'm like that.

This is Mrs. Dash.

This thread is interesting because it gives me a chance to see how outsiders (I mean outside my marriage) see the change that Dash is going through. It validates some of my own struggles that I have been going through with Dash during this time.

He really is changing, and its a fluid thing right now as he is challenging his world view. He truly is someone who doesn't understand emotion.

I'm glad he is getting back into the hobby, but I recognized long before he decided that he would have a tough go at changing people's opinions.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to post here and I am grateful for the dialogue that many of you have engaged in to try to help him understand your reactions to some of the things he has said. In many ways, he does not truly understand, and your guidance and peer responses have been helpful.

Dash has many great qualities and he is wonderful to have in your corner. It is, of course, one of the many reasons why I married him. We are all awkward in our own way.

I don't know if anyone watches Letterkenny, but one of the quotes that Wayne says to Darry is "I wish you weren't so

awkward, bud". I say that to Dash all the time.

**OverwatchCNC**

Lmao. Your wife? Or a sock puppet? This is too good. Where's my popcorn.

**JohnHwangDD**

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Lmao. Your wife? Or a sock puppet? This is too good. Where's my popcorn.

Dodiez has posted for quite some time...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/251414.page#892868

Claimed to be Dash' wife back in 2009

**Dashofpepper**

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Lmao. Your wife? Or a sock puppet? This is too good. Where's my popcorn.

You noted previously elsewhere that you were familiar with me from when I traveled to California for the Slaughter in Space GT.

My wife was there, as she has been at every GT, and many of the regional RTTs and some local tournaments. I enjoy playing 40k, but not painting, and she's the one who paints. That's why I had pink and purple glitter orks. This isn't news - either to you or to the community. A good bit of the community know her. Tournament travel is a great opportunity for us to have a mini-vacation. When Hulksmash and I went to the Nova Open together, our two wives came with us and toured D.C. while we pushed plastic army men around. When we went to (etc)....If you've had the exposure to me that you claim to have had, you also know this .... so I'm not sure why you believe her posting could be a sock puppet account.

I can only think of two reasons you'd say that.

**reds8n**

The purpose of this board is really just for a quick intro.

Not this.

Whatever it is.