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Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I know nothing, I only give my best guess.


Cool but when you state your opinion saying 'definitely' it gives the reader the impression that you know.

Unless someone is claiming to be a GW dev it's always an opinion. Claiming it to be presented as fact because I didn't start every sentence with "I think" or "in my opinion". This whole thread is nothing more than speculation and opinions.

Choose a better hill to make your stand on next time.


I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.

I'd rather assume a given level of common sense by readers than waste my time writing more just for the one person on the back who doesn't pay attention.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I know nothing, I only give my best guess.


Cool but when you state your opinion saying 'definitely' it gives the reader the impression that you know.

Unless someone is claiming to be a GW dev it's always an opinion. Claiming it to be presented as fact because I didn't start every sentence with "I think" or "in my opinion". This whole thread is nothing more than speculation and opinions.

Choose a better hill to make your stand on next time.


I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.

I'd rather assume a given level of common sense by readers than waste my time writing more just for the one person on the back who doesn't pay attention.


Okaydokie.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




The most innovative thing that the primaris marines have introduced in the model design phase (and in the fluff too) it's the armor modularity.

The only common element is the undersuit layer. Then you apply to them plates and accessories to fit a certain design and you can mix and match. It's kind of a shame that the primaris are so monopose and monopurpose because in reality they offer the highest flexibility in theory.

Just look at the suppressors. They have the base ceramite plating, from the tactics, coupled with antigrav fins and the jump boots. They are nicknamed Omnis armor, but you can see them as the sum of their parts easily.

So, with each release, they can came up with new plantings and accessories and mix them. Hopefully the next release will focus on new Gravis variants, just as shadows pear focused on the phobos. I would love to see it used as a heavier weapon platform and as a heavy melee unit, perfect to create the terminator equivalent. Galgar's armor of 2+ is a precedent for heavier armor plating.
Also, all primaris units should have access to a "turn veteran" stratagem, not just intercessors.
   
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On the Internet

I could definitely see a heavy varient release (perhaps centered around Imperial Fists) for the next big Marine push in the future (maybe with a Primaris version of Lysander as well).

I do love the modularity, and maybe the Gravis will get an "Termanus" version or something and not a true Terminator suit. At the end of the day there are definitely gaps in the Primaris line that need filling and it's going to be a while before we get them filled.

I'm still waiting on a Primaris Crusader Squad, but GW seems to want to avoid actually supporting the Templars most of the time.
   
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USA

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.
He has no need to, his post was obviously opinion.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
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On the Internet

 Melissia wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.
He has no need to, his post was obviously opinion.
Apparently it's only apparent if you pay attention or something.

Back on topic, I still stand by that I don't see the Terminators going anywhere in the long run. I just feel like Gravis and Terminator armour fit two different roles (the former making you a massive weapons platform, the latter making you a walking bunker that punches stuff). I could see a close combat version of Gravis coming about as a stop gap (since Terminator armour itself is rare, hard to repair and harder to modify or replace), but unless they have Storm Shields or something it's just not going to fill the same role. Anything is possible, I just doubt the likeliness dropping Terminators in the long run.

Then again I still assume that mini-Marines are going to eventually be taken out of circulation and left with legacy only rules meaning some of those units will seem Primaris updates.
   
Made in us
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Ottawa

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I know nothing, I only give my best guess.


Cool but when you state your opinion saying 'definitely' it gives the reader the impression that you know.

Unless someone is claiming to be a GW dev it's always an opinion. Claiming it to be presented as fact because I didn't start every sentence with "I think" or "in my opinion". This whole thread is nothing more than speculation and opinions.

Choose a better hill to make your stand on next time.


I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.

I'd rather assume a given level of common sense by readers than waste my time writing more just for the one person on the back who doesn't pay attention.


That's super hilarious considering you've spent more energy defending your silly position than it would have taken to be clearer in your original post, or even apologize for the confusion and move on. If you're not willing to take the time to write what you actually mean, why should we take the time to decipher it? The message becomes worthless, and I don't think anybody wants that.

But let's stop gaking up the thread with this.

Primaris Terminators would need to bring with them very clear and noticeable similarities to the current line. The helm, the way it is inset into the armour, the weapons. Gravis doesn't have many of those visual cues.

But ultimately the idea of Primaris Terminators means a chance at some form of the unit getting strong rules.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/15 02:39:46


 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Chaplain with Hate to Spare




On the Internet

Lemondish wrote:
That's super hilarious considering you've spent more energy than it would have taken to be clearer in your original post. If you're not willing to take the time to write what you actually mean, why should we take the time to decipher it?

If you're not going to take time to pay attention to what you're reading, why are you on a message board?

Seriously though, I don't get the idea that we need to constantly label opinions that are clearly opinions in a thread full of posts that are opinions. I mean, how much redundancy do we need exactly? At what point do we just stop padding our word count and assume that people who use this board are smart enough to recognize an opinion in a thread full of opinions and speculation?

Seems I draw that line sooner than others, but I'm okay with that. I'd rather not assume that people are too dumb to understand the obvious than the other way around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back on topic: Gravis does have one cue that matches current Terminators: the helmets. They have the same general shape as most Terminator helms.

It's not enough to make them work as Terminators though.

On a different note, do Terminator shoulder pads fit on Gravis models?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/15 02:45:06


 
   
Made in us
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USA

Lemondish wrote:
That's super hilarious considering
Start with the assumption that every post here is stating an opinion until proven otherwise, and you won't find yourself in the ridiculous position of starting arguments about demanding people change how they word their posts like some kind of bizarre, pointless tone police.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/15 13:14:39


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
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 Melissia wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
That's super hilarious considering
Start with the assumption that every post here is stating an opinion until proven otherwise, and you won't find yourself in the ridiculous position of starting arguments about demanding people change how they word their posts like some kind of bizarre, pointless tone police.


I never demanded anything, I merely suggested he be more clear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/15 23:03:58


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






I guess it's worth asking what makes a Terminator other than a title?

2+ 5++ and the ability to deepstrike? It would have to be since loadout varies between factions

And breaking it down like that really downplays the armour...

   
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I don't know. The Primaris so far seem to be going out of their way to not directly fill the role of non-Primaris Marines. Sure, they might have a little bit of overlap here and there, but they give me the impression they go about things from a different angle or approach as to not completely supplant the units they are similar to.

I would suppose we would see a more direct replacement to tactical marines before we see something that fully replaces terminators or centurions. Intercessors are close, but I think they would still need the tacticals' weapon flexibility before I would consider tacticals completely superfluous.

   
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On the Internet

 fraser1191 wrote:
I guess it's worth asking what makes a Terminator other than a title?

2+ 5++ and the ability to deepstrike? It would have to be since loadout varies between factions

And breaking it down like that really downplays the armour...


Well there is a 2+/4++ variant too. The ability to drop in with a heavy weapon and power fists/chain fists/power weapon on every model while packing storm bolters (or combi bolters) is pretty iconic too.

It's a unit that (ideally) punches above it's weight in terms of volume of fire and potential melee output while weathering the damage coming back its way.
   
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USA

 fraser1191 wrote:
I guess it's worth asking what makes a Terminator other than a title?
The aesthetics, the customization options, and the statline.

I know the aesthetic difference between Aggressors and Terminators seem slight to some people, but to me as someone who's always liked terminators aesthetically, there's a pretty big difference. Hell, just the helmets alone... plus of course the strange partial dome feature that partially encapsulates the aggressors helmet looks odd, it'd look better honestly if it was a full dome with a slit on front or something. I'll grant it's probably pulled a little bit from the actual terminator model design, but it feels like an odd choice. Then there's the fact that every single aggressor has that weird launcher atop their head...

For customization options, aggressors only really have one choice. Their super-pistols, or flamethrowers. Terminators had not enough choice to be sure, but they could equip as a shooty squad that still had some punch, with a heavy weapon guy and a sarge with a power sword. Or they could go all-out on assault, and mix it up or go pure with claws or hammers/shields. Aggressors, in their current form, cannot replace my blood angels assault terminators-- perhaps you could make the argument they kind of sort of replace tactical terminators, I suppose, but they don't do it very well.

And for statline, the armor save does make a huge difference. Some people like to pretend armor is irrelevant this edition, but it's really not, especially since cover actually benefits terminators pretty massively against armor penetrating weapons (effectively nullifying any effect AP-1 weapons have).

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
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 fraser1191 wrote:
I guess it's worth asking what makes a Terminator other than a title?

2+ 5++ and the ability to deepstrike? It would have to be since loadout varies between factions

And breaking it down like that really downplays the armour...



All you are doing there is describing the rules not the armour. There are many models in other factions with 2+5++, doesn't mean they are wearing terminator armour.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/15 23:53:20


 
   
Made in ca
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beyond just the 2+/5++ deep strike thing, for most there's what termies REPRESENT.

Terminators are the elite veterns of a chapter. those who have survived centuries of service and been permitted to wear a rare special type of armor that is even better then the kick ass normal power armor. and that is, a big part of their appeal.


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
beyond just the 2+/5++ deep strike thing, for most there's what termies REPRESENT.

Terminators are the elite veterns of a chapter. those who have survived centuries of service and been permitted to wear a rare special type of armor that is even better then the kick ass normal power armor. and that is, a big part of their appeal.



Their armour is also a big part of their appeal, ever since 2nd edition I've been obsessed with terminator armour. Gravis armour looks great, but its no substitute in my opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/16 00:07:49


 
   
Made in us
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 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
I guess it's worth asking what makes a Terminator other than a title?

2+ 5++ and the ability to deepstrike? It would have to be since loadout varies between factions

And breaking it down like that really downplays the armour...



All you are doing there is describing the rules not the armour. There are many models in other factions with 2+5++, doesn't mean they are wearing terminator armour.


True. I love the lore for terminators but I don't think there's a realistic way to represent them that way on the table. And mechanically speaking seeing Primaris with these "abilities" isn't very far off.

Probably gonna end up with tactical Redemptor Armour
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






The Terminators (specifically the Assault Cannon one) and the Dreadnought in 2nd edition were what brought me into 40k from Battletech. The Terminator aesthetic is awesome.

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So, Astartes are like Halo Spartan Spartans. So if Primaris marines are Space Marine Space Marines, then Primaris are Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartans. If Primaris in Terminator armor are like Primaris Primaris marines, then they are Astartes Astartes Astartes Astartes, or Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartan Spartans.
   
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Tsukuru wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
I think we'll probably get more options for Aggressors before we ever see anything with both the Primaris and Terminator keywords. In fact, the limb I'm currently climbing out on is that we will never see a loyalist release with the word Terminator ever again.


Next year’s Adepticon model is a Librarian in Termie Armour
Interesting. I completely missed that. In that case, allow me to alter my stance. I still maintain that Terminators are not going to be resculpted to replace the ones that exist. I still believe that Aggressors are the replacements.

---

Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Gravis armour is definitely not replacing Terminator armour anytime soon.


ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I know nothing, I only give my best guess.


Cool but when you state your opinion saying 'definitely' it gives the reader the impression that you know.

Unless someone is claiming to be a GW dev it's always an opinion. Claiming it to be presented as fact because I didn't start every sentence with "I think" or "in my opinion". This whole thread is nothing more than speculation and opinions.

Choose a better hill to make your stand on next time.


I'm not gaking on you or anything, but next time you can say 'most likely' rather than 'definitely'.

I'd rather assume a given level of common sense by readers than waste my time writing more just for the one person on the back who doesn't pay attention.

I have to agree with Delvarus here. You're misuse of the word "definitely" may be understandable to some, but to me, it sounded like a precursor to you presenting some strong evidence. Your statement would have more accurately conveyed your opinion if you'd simply left out that erroneous "definitely," so rather than "waste time" writing two words rather than one, you could in fact have saved time by writing one less word instead. Also, I think it's worth mentioning that there was nothing rude about Delvarus's suggestion. I don't think it was necessary to react as defensively and as rudely as you did.
   
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Can we stop wasting time quibbling my writing habits and stay on topic? My word choice was intentional to convey the strength of mt opinion, not to state facts. Just move on with your life becausd I will not be changing my post.

Back on topic. Again. Honeslty, while I see mini Marines going away, iconic designs like Terminator armout maybe see tweaks (as technology has improved) but won't be going away. We may just not see it for a while as GW hasn't starting pulling that plug yet.
   
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Sweden

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Can we stop wasting time quibbling my writing habits and stay on topic? My word choice was intentional to convey the strength of mt opinion, not to state facts. Just move on with your life becausd I will not be changing my post.

Back on topic. Again. Honeslty, while I see mini Marines going away, iconic designs like Terminator armout maybe see tweaks (as technology has improved) but won't be going away. We may just not see it for a while as GW hasn't starting pulling that plug yet.


Do you not consider the tactical marine, or the assult marines iconic designs?

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On the Internet

Gitdakka wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Can we stop wasting time quibbling my writing habits and stay on topic? My word choice was intentional to convey the strength of mt opinion, not to state facts. Just move on with your life becausd I will not be changing my post.

Back on topic. Again. Honeslty, while I see mini Marines going away, iconic designs like Terminator armout maybe see tweaks (as technology has improved) but won't be going away. We may just not see it for a while as GW hasn't starting pulling that plug yet.


Do you not consider the tactical marine, or the assult marines iconic designs?

Which version of them?

Seriously though, excluding weapon loadouts, the Primaris Intercessor looks like a Tactical Marine in a different mark of armour.

We don't have all the Primaris options so we still have time to see.Assault varients. Probably in the Blood Angels first.
   
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I think given that terminators exist and Custodes exist a primaris terminator would pretty much be too samesies. also of note with how recent the catifracti and tarteros kits are I doubt GW wants to see them dwindle down due to a primaris terminator kit. maybe in a few year. I believe based on kit age and rumours bikes are the next primaris splash. followed by a jet pack assault unit.

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 G00fySmiley wrote:
I think given that terminators exist and Custodes exist a primaris terminator would pretty much be too samesies. also of note with how recent the catifracti and tarteros kits are I doubt GW wants to see them dwindle down due to a primaris terminator kit. maybe in a few year. I believe based on kit age and rumours bikes are the next primaris splash. followed by a jet pack assault unit.


IMHO Bikes seem a bit.. odd, given inceptors basicly fill the tactical role of bikes. at the same time Bikes have always been popular so I could see it happening. My guess will be lance equipped bikes. with a focus on melee rushes over the current ones which are kinda rangedish

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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Aesthetically Aggressors just are not teminatory enough. We need proper Primaris Terminators. The new plastic Custodes Terminators have great proportions, something like that except with the clean hi-tech look of the Primaris. Hammk has made a pretty damn awesome concept art for the thing.


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Hammk's concept art is pretty much exactly what I would want Primaris terminators to look like. Sleek and kinda like graves armor with the new style of chest but still drawing heavily on the old design keeping some of the more noticable parts of the indomitus pattern suits like the rods running along the thighs and dog shaped helm.

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Taht's pretty awesome. Especially likle the enclosed triple-barrel, potentially rotary boltgun.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
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G00fySmiley wrote:I believe based on kit age and rumours bikes are the next primaris splash. followed by a jet pack assault unit.

I really hope you're right. I think bikes aren't terribly unlikely, as they have an aesthetic that ought to be updated. My greatest fear is that as far as Games Workshop is concerned, Inceptors are that jet pack unit. I pray to the Emperor that's not the case, as Inceptors are completely repugnant to me.

I wonder about Aggressors: if not the same as Terminators, what exactly is the role that they are supposed to fill anyway?
   
 
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