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Longtime Dakkanaut




dkoz wrote:
Do Knights get to fire overwatch?

Why would you think they can't?

The only one I'm aware of that has a restriction is the porphyrion.
   
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dkoz wrote:
Do Knights get to fire overwatch?


Barring a special rules from the charging unit that says they can't, they can indeed.

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 bullyboy wrote:
death hex and null zone issue is simple.... You have to get into range, and that knight probably has a nice little 85pt Culexus or Vindicare for you.


To some degree. There are definitely ways to get the librarian there without really risking him to the Vindicare, but it means that the elements of your army that are going to kill the Knight have to survive the Knight for a little bit.


I would definitely try the librarian with null zone strategy. Alternatively, trying to hit it with -3 or -4 to hit from a DA, SW, and Primaris Phobos Librarian seems like another idea, but you've got to be able to keep doing that and there's no guarantee of that with snipers about.

Trying do do mortal wounds to it also sounds like a sound plan.


The tough thing is dealing with it's invulnerable save. I generally approach the problem by massed fire and threatening it with things its controller wants to kill. It doesn't really need to die turn 1 if I have good control over what it's going to shoot and can afford the casualties. Having Penitent Engines instead of 1 Exorcist seems to work if I get the turn, since I can destroy most of it's supporting AT assets with meltaguns and exorcists, and leave it in the situation where it either ignores the pile of meltaguns and rocket launchers, or gets charged by the penitent engine/s [and it probably can't kill all the tanks and meltaguns in one turn anyway].

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As an ork player I do not have an answer to the Castellan beyond getting stuck in combat with thngs and mking sure to surround units so they cannot walk away. and/or kill everything else on the board and ignore it as the castellan alone destroys over 1/3 of my army over the course of a game while i occationally scratch the paint and try to puyll out a bloody victory on points (it is doable but Rarely remove one from the table)

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Best bet when playing space marines is to try to spam mortal wounds using the heavy bolter strat, smite and the DW strat shooting at vehicles.

So on a good turn where everything goes to plan that is 9 wounds off. so will take a few turns.

I put all the MW in the big boy while everything else shoots troops on the ground.

 
   
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 G00fySmiley wrote:
As an ork player I do not have an answer to the Castellan beyond getting stuck in combat with thngs and mking sure to surround units so they cannot walk away. and/or kill everything else on the board and ignore it as the castellan alone destroys over 1/3 of my army over the course of a game while i occationally scratch the paint and try to puyll out a bloody victory on points (it is doable but Rarely remove one from the table)

Literally the best option in the game for killing knights. Shock attack gun. Smash guns.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
So yeah, 340 points (minimum) and 4 CP to take down a 450 point model.


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 Xenomancers wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
As an ork player I do not have an answer to the Castellan beyond getting stuck in combat with thngs and mking sure to surround units so they cannot walk away. and/or kill everything else on the board and ignore it as the castellan alone destroys over 1/3 of my army over the course of a game while i occationally scratch the paint and try to puyll out a bloody victory on points (it is doable but Rarely remove one from the table)

Literally the best option in the game for killing knights. Shock attack gun. Smash guns.
the problem there is randomness.

SAG d6 shots, 2d6 str ap-5 average strength is 7, average number of shots 3.5 BS 5 = ~1 hit. wounding on a 5 so .33 xd6 wounds. I can take the SSAG and spend cp so i am at 2d6 shots so 7 BS5 shots for~2 hits wounding on 5's so .66 xd6 wounds. Now one could get lucky and roll str 11+ and 12 shots hitting 12 6's for dakka dakka and 12 more hits for 24d3 dmg but by that same token you might get str 2 , 2 shots and miss both. SAG is just not a reliable way to do it, it is worth trying but its not somethign that can be relied upon. I find i usually get 1-2 good rounds of shots out of it if it surives 5 turns, usually 2 worthless ones and 1-2 ok ones.

smasha guns have the same issue of can be great but also may suck. d3 hits so average 2, hitting on 4's so average 1 hit, and wounding on a 2d6 roll of 8+ so ~35% chance to deal d6 wounds

and sure you can get 1 reroll in there on something, but better hope its worth it.

I will concede that it is possible to roll great on both and destroy a knight in one turn, but with so much randomness the same chances exist to do nothing to it.

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Lemondish wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
So yeah, 340 points (minimum) and 4 CP to take down a 450 point model.


I dream about having that kind of amazing return on investment.
That also only had a 3% chance of happening, so...

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a squad of 12 Ryza rataphron destroyers in a servitor maniple will chew right through knights

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dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?


Extra attack from death visions, d3 more from red rampage. Maybe D4 thunderhammer if you are willing to risk the overwatch with your 3++. Fight again. Rerolls.

Albeit I think it won't one shot it quite. Normal knight yes but castellan with extra wounds might be bit too tough. But leaves only little to be done by shooting.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
So yeah, 340 points (minimum) and 4 CP to take down a 450 point model.


I dream about having that kind of amazing return on investment.
That also only had a 3% chance of happening, so...
yup, and don't forget the 60-90 grotz you have to buy to keep the lootas alive past turn 1.

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How to kill it with Guard, without relying on super-heavies like the Shadowsword?


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 Hawky wrote:
How to kill it with Guard, without relying on super-heavies like the Shadowsword?

Kill the opponents guardsmen, because a castellen for all people claim it's OP cheese maximum TFG unit still can't kill guardsmen efficiently.
   
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Shoot it with ~1000 points of Guardsmen from within 12".
   
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 Hawky wrote:
How to kill it with Guard, without relying on super-heavies like the Shadowsword?
Lots of punishers or vultures with oldgrudges warlord trait.

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What's a solid way of killing it with mono-Craftworlds? I see shining spears but I don't actually know the strategy behind it.

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Shining Spears will need to charge it. Not easy.

On the upside, if you're running a Spears deathstar, it'll be hard for the Castellan to kill your deathstar.

But Mono-CWE has Doom, which will make things easier. On the other hand, most of our AT is shortranged (6" or 12"), and our LasCannon equivelent wounds on 4s and only has 36" range.
   
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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
What's a solid way of killing it with mono-Craftworlds? I see shining spears but I don't actually know the strategy behind it.

2-3 Fire Prisms and a Warlock/Spiritseer/Hemlock with Jinx is a pretty effective place to start. Use the Linked Fire stratagem to maximise you firepower and put just one Prism in LOS to the Knight. Then use Fire and Fade to move that Prism out of LOS or at least into cover. Add the Alaitoc trait and use Lightning Fast reflexes for extra protection if your opponent manages to get LOS to any of your Prisms.

A Wraithknight with Sword and Board is pretty cheap and should be capable of taking out a Castellan in melee if you can get it there alive. It will suffer if it runs up against a melee Knight like a Gallant though so may not be the best option.

Spears are good against a lot of targets but at S6, they will struggle against a Knight (although Doom will help here).

10 Dark Reapers with Guide, Doom and Jinx plus Fire and Fade will do good work too for their points as well as being useful against most other targets in the game.

None of these options are quite as efficient as allying in Dark Eldar or Harlequins to bring access to Haywire + Doom but if you definitely want to play mono, then the suggestions above are probably your best options.

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I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).

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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).
Culexi cannot be smote.

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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).

I think that a Hammer Captain will put more wounds per point on a Castellan in melee since it only costs 1/3 the points of Bobby G. Bobby G needs to leverage his assorted aura buffs to make his 400 points pricetag worthwhile. Using him as an assault hammer strikes me as problematic.

Smite spam is very effective vs Knights if you can deal with any screening units. Imperial players can do smite spam quite effectively by taking 3 Inquisitors as a SCD. OK the Smite difficulty will increase by 1 each time it is cast but the Inquisitors themselves are Characters and can be screened quite cheaply from retaliation. I have lost Knights by surprise to Smiting Inquisitors before because I underestimated them. They are cheap too.

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 _SeeD_ wrote:
3++ on a knight is FETHING stupid.


No, it´s pretty clever actually. To counter this unit reliably, you will have to buy an IK of your own. All hail to the sales-driven gameplay!
   
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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).


Guilliman cannot kill a Knight in one go, just look at the stats, He got 6 attacks each has 3 dmg. So even he get all his attacks successful, it is only 18 dmg. in reply, the IK will death Grip him to Death with the unlimited mortal wounds.
   
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Neophyte2012 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).


Guilliman cannot kill a Knight in one go, just look at the stats, He got 6 attacks each has 3 dmg. So even he get all his attacks successful, it is only 18 dmg. in reply, the IK will death Grip him to Death with the unlimited mortal wounds.

You forgot the mortal wounds on 6's and he's got inbuilt full rerolls
He then has a get back up roll and a fight again strategum either way he can 1 round a knight.
That is ignoring that a Castellen can't deathgrip.
   
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I don't think G can use Until Death strategem.
   
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Ice_can wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think Bobby G could really feth up a Castellan if he can somehow get to it without getting dirt napped. Also, Thousand Sons could use Smite Spam if they can clear the intervening units (including any Culexus Assassins, a tall order I know).


Guilliman cannot kill a Knight in one go, just look at the stats, He got 6 attacks each has 3 dmg. So even he get all his attacks successful, it is only 18 dmg. in reply, the IK will death Grip him to Death with the unlimited mortal wounds.

You forgot the mortal wounds on 6's and he's got inbuilt full rerolls
He then has a get back up roll and a fight again strategum either way he can 1 round a knight.
That is ignoring that a Castellen can't deathgrip.


D3 MW on a , with aweapon wound the IK on 4s, ok, Lets be generous count 5 wounds goes through, 2 of them are 6s, So that yields 21 dmg maximum, or 19 dmg on average MW rolls. Still cannot kill any Big IK.

I will never count on the "come back" rolls, 70% of the time it fails even I use CP reroll.

Even If He come back with D6 wounds, and strike again that somehow kills the Knight, the Knight will explode dealting D6 MW on him and everybody nearby, exactly killing Guilliman again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, what IK player would be that kind of silly, allowing Guilliman runs near Castellan Knight??? Any IK player that is experienced enough will sent Raven House Gallant Knight charging right where Guilliman is located, where will usually have tons of Marines high value targets. With stomp, slice and the explosion when it finally got brought down, it will easily wreck models worth double of its 350pts cost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/26 12:51:07


 
   
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Well, fortunatley, I play CWE. If I take two of our beatstick HQs and get the charge on the first turn, provided I survive, I have a reasonable chance of killing the it by the end of T7!

Assuming the Castellan rolls a lot of 1s for it's attacks, that is.
   
 
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