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From the fluff i was able to find there really isn't much wiggle room away from the Onager Dunecrawler model apart from the reduction in armour and weaponry.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
That’s awesome SirDonald , looks like an angry Ladybug too.
Also what exactly is saying that the preview picture isn’t the underside of the transport? Especially if it’s a grav vehicle or walker.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
BrianDavion wrote: Honestly I hope it's not a flier, so far Admech has really done a "all our vehicles are walkers" theme and it's one I hope they keep to
Personally I can't wait for them to abandon that daft and artificial restriction. It's only a shame they won't be doing it in the superior way: access to Chimera, Russ, and Rhino chassis vehicles.
There's no reason AdMech shouldn't have access to all that stuff.
There's also no reason AdMech shouldn't have better stuff.
Yes, but they won't get both, and personally I'd rather they got the fancy versions of the STC vehicles(plasma predators, volkite russes, iron fist rhinos etc) than more "unique" things.
I'm fully aware I'm pissing into the wind on that point, since most people seem to prefer newshiny and GW like to sell things.
The problem with having things that already exist is not only that those kits are already there if people want to proxy them as the new Admech transport, but they also are pretty (In my opinion of course) not only boring but also ugly, design wise. Like, a fething leman russ? The cool skitarii/admech aesthetic woul look absolutely incoherent with rhinos and chimeras and ruses. In the other hand just look at the beauty of the Onager Dunecrawler, and the LongLeg Chickens.
I know, in the fluff they absolutely have access to those things, but personally I believe that the tabletop factions are little frames of a much bigger and varied force of the background, and the stronger they convey their aesthetic and "feel", the better, instead of deluting them.
You can have THE ADMECH. Or you can have "Those guys that are a mix of everything else because they do all the things".
Again, at least thats my way of looking at this and why I much prefer new and unique things to the faction, at least one as interesting and with so much room to expansion as Admech (One that was just another variant of a Space Marine or IMperial Guard force, I would prefer to share most of his armory and vehicles with existing factions).
EDIT: Of course if they add access to those vehicles + new vehicles I would have no problem with that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 15:30:24
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
The nature of new product centric profit seeking means even if GW has 30 years of lore saying the Mechanicus use landraiders, we instead get Macrocarid Explorators instead... the same goes for everything else. So I think GW will simply shrug ignore anything else they've written and give us something "cool". I think GW's internal process and the contribution of stakeholders makes it very hard for something mundane but appropriate to get to production.
I think we're going to get the mechanicus equivalent to a heavy Landspeeder Storm or flying rhino. The simple fact is Skitarii are already largely intended to be able to keep up on foot with Mechanicus ground vehicles so unless its significantly speedier enough its a bit pointless. While I'd love to see a larger legged vehicle like an Onager with transport space, I don't think that really adds as distinctive a unit to the army.
BrianDavion wrote: Honestly I hope it's not a flier, so far Admech has really done a "all our vehicles are walkers" theme and it's one I hope they keep to
Personally I can't wait for them to abandon that daft and artificial restriction. It's only a shame they won't be doing it in the superior way: access to Chimera, Russ, and Rhino chassis vehicles.
There's no reason AdMech shouldn't have access to all that stuff.
There's also no reason AdMech shouldn't have better stuff.
Yes, but they won't get both, and personally I'd rather they got the fancy versions of the STC vehicles(plasma predators, volkite russes, iron fist rhinos etc) than more "unique" things.
I'm fully aware I'm pissing into the wind on that point, since most people seem to prefer newshiny and GW like to sell things.
The problem with having things that already exist is not only that those kits are already there if people want to proxy them as the new Admech transport, but they also are pretty (In my opinion of course) not only boring but also ugly, design wise. Like, a fething leman russ? The cool skitarii/admech aesthetic woul look absolutely incoherent with rhinos and chimeras and ruses. In the other hand just look at the beauty of the Onager Dunecrawler, and the LongLeg Chickens.
I know, in the fluff they absolutely have access to those things, but personally I believe that the tabletop factions are little frames of a much bigger and varied force of the background, and the stronger they convey their aesthetic and "feel", the better, instead of deluting them.
You can have THE ADMECH. Or you can have "Those guys that are a mix of everything else because they do all the things".
Again, at least thats my way of looking at this and why I much prefer new and unique things to the faction, at least one as interesting and with so much room to expansion as Admech (One that was just another variant of a Space Marine or IMperial Guard force, I would prefer to share most of his armory and vehicles with existing factions).
EDIT: Of course if they add access to those vehicles + new vehicles I would have no problem with that.
Obviously I disagree, because(and this isn't a snobby thing just my PoV) I've been a fan of the AdMech pretty much since I started 40K in the late 90's. For me giving them the vehicles that have, from my perspective, always been part of the faction isn't "diluting" their identity, because it is their identity - only having raygun gothic walker vehicles and Baymaxbots is an "identity" AdMech have only had for a couple of years, and it's not one I care for. By all means, give them raygun gothic walkers and Baymaxbots, but the idea being able to deploy a few of these, or a couple of these, or something kinda like this but reworked with quad Mauler Bolt Cannons and an open transport bed on the back for Alphas and Secutors to ride into battle like ancient generals on chariots would somehow diminish them is just a bizarre notion to my mind.
Not that it matters, as mythos says with the way GW operates now everyone gets Snowflake Mobiles whether they need them or not, because they don't want to risk anyone just repainting a bunch of Rhinos from an old Marine army or whatever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 15:49:57
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
aka_mythos wrote: The nature of new product centric profit seeking means even if GW has 30 years of lore saying the Mechanicus use landraiders, we instead get Macrocarid Explorators instead... the same goes for everything else. So I think GW will simply shrug ignore anything else they've written and give us something "cool". I think GW's internal process and the contribution of stakeholders makes it very hard for something mundane but appropriate to get to production.
I think we're going to get the mechanicus equivalent to a heavy Landspeeder Storm or flying rhino. The simple fact is Skitarii are already largely intended to be able to keep up on foot with Mechanicus ground vehicles so unless its significantly speedier enough its a bit pointless. While I'd love to see a larger legged vehicle like an Onager with transport space, I don't think that really adds as distinctive a unit to the army.
In my opinion, this is also one of the major benefits of soup and the whole Allies system. It's not just to cherry-pick the most broken combos for gaming, but for those players who want to show a more fluffy, traditional Ad Mech force, you can add in a Guard detachment with a Leman Russ Executioner or two—or whatever you fancy. Extra hobby points if you add in some Ad Mech parts to your Guar—err, Astra Militarum so they have some visual cohesion.
As to the fluff about Skitarri not really needing transports per se—I think we'll have to see if that little bit of fluff stays or is ret-conned out once transports are available. I think it was mostly an artificial contrivance (much like the fact they didn't originally have battlefield HQs in the fluff) to explain away their limited initial release.
Skitarii used various transports in the fluff - old and new
Good to see them bringing them in - be nice if they did the same for the Knight support units and lots of other cool stuff in the fluff.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
The nature of new product centric profit seeking means even if GW has 30 years of lore saying the Mechanicus use landraiders, we instead get Macrocarid Explorators instead... the same goes for everything else. So I think GW will simply shrug ignore anything else they've written and give us something "cool". I think GW's internal process and the contribution of stakeholders makes it very hard for something mundane but appropriate to get to production.
I think we're going to get the mechanicus equivalent to a heavy Landspeeder Storm or flying rhino. The simple fact is Skitarii are already largely intended to be able to keep up on foot with Mechanicus ground vehicles so unless its significantly speedier enough its a bit pointless. While I'd love to see a larger legged vehicle like an Onager with transport space, I don't think that really adds as distinctive a unit to the army.
In my opinion, this is also one of the major benefits of soup and the whole Allies system. It's not just to cherry-pick the most broken combos for gaming, but for those players who want to show a more fluffy, traditional Ad Mech force, you can add in a Guard detachment with a Leman Russ Executioner or two—or whatever you fancy. Extra hobby points if you add in some Ad Mech parts to your Guar—err, Astra Militarum so they have some visual cohesion.
As to the fluff about Skitarri not really needing transports per se—I think we'll have to see if that little bit of fluff stays or is ret-conned out once transports are available. I think it was mostly an artificial contrivance (much like the fact they didn't originally have battlefield HQs in the fluff) to explain away their limited initial release.
it has been officially renamed Militarum "Trademakus" by a certain avian apparently.
As much as I want something like the macrocarid in plastic, I'm not holding my breath. if they were given something inbetween that & a terrax/similar, Admech would be an even better outcome.
The fluff is that they walk everywhere, not that they don't have a transport, so long as the new transport is a walker (ala a AT-AT or AT-TE) the fluff is maintained
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/07 04:09:35
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Oh god, don't remind me of that pish. More than Cawl, more than Return of the Rowboat, more than their mauling of the Iron Hands, I think that one piece of utter nonsense takes my personal "Most Moronic Fluff Evar" award nomination.
"They just walk everywhere, and if they need to get there sooner, they start walking earlier." - christ on a bike who on earth thought that was a clever bit of writing.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Usually there is an odd snippet in an interview, or a blurry picture of something and everybody jumps to conclusions of sorts ... "XY confirmed, CONFIRMED I TELLS YA".
A literal confirmation from GW itself, prominently posted on their own blog, and "Skitarii MIGHT get a transport"? Oh boy...
I nominate this threads title for "Most Restrained N&R Thread Ever".
It's been that way since we got a codex in 7th (skitarii mind you, no idea if the cult guys had this bit). They March everywhere in honor of the original martians. It's why every skitarii gets their legs replaced with bionics at recruitment, so they may March endlessly in honor of their ancestors who ground their feet to bloody Stumps. Except in the same book they talk about how the Onager is derived from an old transport unit called a M.U.L.E that one would think was sometimes used to haul people.
Whoever sat down in the meeting to write the book and unironically said "hey you know the faction that makes every bit of tech and vehicles for the Imperium, let's make em walk, EVERYWHERE!" Needs to flogged with a metal dread in a sock. Don't get me wrong, I love the Walker tech and looks, it definitely fits the idea of what the admech would have kicking around. But the idea that the faction that makes the transportation for all the other militaries in the Imperium doesn't see any point to transports is stupid. Especially when older books and mentions in the lore before the codex existed mention the admech using things like rhinos if I remember correctly.
It was a lazy cop out to explain why they didn't get a transport model when they were released. Remember, they were released at the height of the chapterhouse debacle, where "no models, no rules" was hitting full swing. GW was so hardcore on this approach admech got released in two separate books within a few months timespan, just so nothing was in a codex without a model. It's why we have the skitarii/cult distinction in the first place. We used to have to buy two books, that cost more than a regular codex combined, just to run admech back in 7th, and you couldn't even use the Dominus as an HQ for a skitarii army. It was so ridiculous that skitarii weren't even released with an HQ, you just had to nominate an alpha as a Warlord or maybe try and hide an infiltrator alpha somewhere. The start collecting box had to give us a special formation just so you could use the models in it together.
Admech are a beautiful army that is suffering from being released at the worst possible moment in the Kirby era and it's still paying for those sins. If Admech had been released in 4th or 5th we would've gotten all sorts of Imperial vehicles and probably had crazy customization for our tech-priests to boot. It's doubly insulting because GSC get everything in the guard codex but regiment traits and heroes, yet admech can't even get a bloody rhino that they make by the thounsands
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
They don't get tired so they can just walk directly to the battlefield. Because the sole reason soldiers don't walk to battles is because they get tired.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Worth mentioning that it didn't specifically preclude transports or anything else. It just talked about it as dogmatic relating to the original Martian settlers crossing the planet.
It's been that way since we got a codex in 7th (skitarii mind you, no idea if the cult guys had this bit). They March everywhere in honor of the original martians. It's why every skitarii gets their legs replaced with bionics at recruitment, so they may March endlessly in honor of their ancestors who ground their feet to bloody Stumps. Except in the same book they talk about how the Onager is derived from an old transport unit called a M.U.L.E that one would think was sometimes used to haul people.
Whoever sat down in the meeting to write the book and unironically said "hey you know the faction that makes every bit of tech and vehicles for the Imperium, let's make em walk, EVERYWHERE!" Needs to flogged with a metal dread in a sock. Don't get me wrong, I love the Walker tech and looks, it definitely fits the idea of what the admech would have kicking around. But the idea that the faction that makes the transportation for all the other militaries in the Imperium doesn't see any point to transports is stupid. Especially when older books and mentions in the lore before the codex existed mention the admech using things like rhinos if I remember correctly.
It was a lazy cop out to explain why they didn't get a transport model when they were released. Remember, they were released at the height of the chapterhouse debacle, where "no models, no rules" was hitting full swing. GW was so hardcore on this approach admech got released in two separate books within a few months timespan, just so nothing was in a codex without a model. It's why we have the skitarii/cult distinction in the first place. We used to have to buy two books, that cost more than a regular codex combined, just to run admech back in 7th, and you couldn't even use the Dominus as an HQ for a skitarii army. It was so ridiculous that skitarii weren't even released with an HQ, you just had to nominate an alpha as a Warlord or maybe try and hide an infiltrator alpha somewhere. The start collecting box had to give us a special formation just so you could use the models in it together.
Admech are a beautiful army that is suffering from being released at the worst possible moment in the Kirby era and it's still paying for those sins. If Admech had been released in 4th or 5th we would've gotten all sorts of Imperial vehicles and probably had crazy customization for our tech-priests to boot. It's doubly insulting because GSC get everything in the guard codex but regiment traits and heroes, yet admech can't even get a bloody rhino that they make by the thounsands
I mean...hold on now lol.
GSC get the ability to take a separate detachment of imperial guard, and they have 4 copy/paste units from the guard codex that get a separate keyword, so they don't interact at all with GSC auras, abilities, stratagems etc, and they can't get into guard transports.
Skitarii has the ability to take a separate detachment of imperial guard, and gets to take regiment traits, heroes, and gets full CP for those detachments.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
It was a lazy cop out to explain why they didn't get a transport model when they were released. Remember, they were released at the height of the chapterhouse debacle, where "no models, no rules" was hitting full swing.
They "didn't get a transport model" because the army was really frigging mobile. +3" on anything with "Dunestrider"(Sicarians, Onagers, and Ironstriders) for their Moves, and a free Scout move at the start of the game--it meant they didn't need a transport.
GW was so hardcore on this approach admech got released in two separate books within a few months timespan, just so nothing was in a codex without a model. It's why we have the skitarii/cult distinction in the first place. We used to have to buy two books, that cost more than a regular codex combined, just to run admech back in 7th, and you couldn't even use the Dominus as an HQ for a skitarii army. It was so ridiculous that skitarii weren't even released with an HQ, you just had to nominate an alpha as a Warlord or maybe try and hide an infiltrator alpha somewhere. The start collecting box had to give us a special formation just so you could use the models in it together.
Difference was that each of those books was $33(cheaper than the $50 codices were) and you could field each as their own army.
There's a reason I've harped on and on about being screwed over. I ran Skitarii, I didn't run your garbage War Convocation crap. I didn't need a Dominus as an HQ. I didn't want a Dominus as an HQ. Now I'm stuck having to field a Techpriest I never frigging wanted in the first place just to run my old army--and to boot, I have to do a damn Stratagem to use my army's old mechanic!
Admech are a beautiful army that is suffering from being released at the worst possible moment in the Kirby era and it's still paying for those sins. If Admech had been released in 4th or 5th we would've gotten all sorts of Imperial vehicles and probably had crazy customization for our tech-priests to boot. It's doubly insulting because GSC get everything in the guard codex but regiment traits and heroes,
Or you wouldn't have gotten any of that stuff, period, and just been part of some garbage campaign book. And what GSC get or don't get doesn't matter to AdMech. It is, frankly, more insulting to Guard in that GSC has become Guard 2.0.
yet admech can't even get a bloody rhino that they make by the thounsands
Nobody but Astartes, Sororitas, Custodes, and Arbites get Rhinos.
Y'know, those who are considered agents of the Emperor's will and whatnot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/07 13:37:42
Whoever sat down in the meeting to write the book and unironically said "hey you know the faction that makes every bit of tech and vehicles for the Imperium, let's make em walk, EVERYWHERE!" Needs to flogged with a metal dread in a sock. Don't get me wrong, I love the Walker tech and looks, it definitely fits the idea of what the admech would have kicking around. But the idea that the faction that makes the transportation for all the other militaries in the Imperium doesn't see any point to transports is stupid. Especially when older books and mentions in the lore before the codex existed mention the admech using things like rhinos if I remember correctly.
It was a lazy cop out to explain why they didn't get a transport model when they were released. Remember, they were released at the height of the chapterhouse debacle, where "no models, no rules" was hitting full swing. GW was so hardcore on this approach admech got released in two separate books within a few months timespan, just so nothing was in a codex without a model. It's why we have the skitarii/cult distinction in the first place. We used to have to buy two books, that cost more than a regular codex combined, just to run admech back in 7th, and you couldn't even use the Dominus as an HQ for a skitarii army. It was so ridiculous that skitarii weren't even released with an HQ, you just had to nominate an alpha as a Warlord or maybe try and hide an infiltrator alpha somewhere. The start collecting box had to give us a special formation just so you could use the models in it together.
I think its important to point out that while it's the Skitarii fluff that said they walk everywhere, at the time the codex represented the Skitarii, it didn't represent the Mechanicus as a whole. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the transport vehicles are just part of another branch of the Mechanicus, a specialized logistics branch; like how its the Imperial Navy that typically pilots the Imperial Guards Valkyries and aircraft.
Next, in the novels its made clear on more than one occasion while the Mechanicus hold authority over technology they do not manufacture every last piece of it. Particularly on more advanced planets its been shown that private corporations and guilds exist and are licensed to produce technology, often but not always from designs licensed from the Mechanicus. For example on Necromunda the Van Saar manufacture the lasguns and other weaponry for the region's and Necromundan Imperial Guard regiments and for interplanetary trade.
While on some level they should have access to any Imperial vehicle they want, they don't typically use them. For the longest time in the fluff they only used land raiders, since that's notionally the best in universe imperial ground vehicle, but even then its mentioned in old fluff as the personal vehicle of senior Tech Priests or Magos. The Mechanicus haven't been specifically described as using anything else as far as I'm aware. The closest is that on some of the worlds where the Machine Cult have significant influence and where the world produce imperial guard that while bionic enhanced are typically armed with standard guard equipment. Those regiments might arguably be an extension of the Mechanicus, but really its fancy IG. The Mechanicus generally has access to bolters and lasguns but they don't use them. Access doesn't equate to use.
While the Mechanicus will go on its own crusades, the majority of the time it's army is acting in support of larger Imperial operations or it's acting in a largely defensive role to protect its infrastructure and manufacturing capacity. Independent of other Imperial forces they would spend the majority of their time going into Zone Mortalis type structures in search of lost tech or fighting in and among Sector Mechanicus type terrain. Because of that transports wouldn't generally be a high priority for the Skitarii.
Given their role in the larger military operations, it does make sense the Mechanicus forces would have transports. Those transports just shouldn't be that common. Any transport they have needs to effectively clear and navigate that kind of dense vertical infrastructural terrain, more quickly than a skitarii running around on foot. A rhino or chimera aren't generally going to be doing that and so it wouldn't make much sense that they'd use those.They need quick, flyers that insert their troops to capture locations like control rooms on "such and such" a spire.
It is silly the Mechanicus don't have a dedicated transport unit with a plastic model. Now we're getting one and I'm excited.
I love how the video is a call to fans saying “If you want something you need to post for it in the comment section of all our Facebook posts regardless of the post content and we will make it” ^^.
GW is masochistic now ^^.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
We already have transports - just need 40k rules...
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I love how the video is a call to fans saying “If you want something you need to post for it in the comment section of all our Facebook posts regardless of the post content and we will make it” ^^.
GW is masochistic now ^^.
awesome SirDonald 
, looks like an angry Ladybug too.
~4100
~1660
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester 
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k 
