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 stonehorse wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
surte various codices put little side bars with new stuff there but let's face itm, it was never going anywhere. it's like that special box the grey knights have described in their 5E codex. sure it's fun to speculate, but it's clear that GW had no plans to go anywhere with it, it was meaningless

You mention 5th edition, which is ironic... as that is when 40k died.

The change to Necron background and models, Centurions, Tau Riptide, Grey Knights Dread Knight, etc. That was the start of the rot, the old guard had left, and the new blood wanted to put their stamp on it. That stamp showed a creative bankruptcy, which has only increased and been built upon.

GW learned from the death of WFB that a big dramatic change is too much of a risk, especially with their cash cow (40k), so instead, we'll see slow gradual changes... like all the old marines going to Direct Only, then not being restocked, then rules not being written for old models. Space Marines, namely Primaris Marines are the test bed, if they go well, we'll see the equivalent happen to most if not all the races... my money is on Eldar Aspect Warriors being the next thing GW replace with a new unit(s), then fade the old ones into history.

A bit overly dramatic there. Clearly you don't like change.

No, I like change, what I don't like is change for the sake of change and/or to sell new models. Case in point, when 5th edition hit the shelves Space Marines were already a complete product line, however GW's policy is to add something new to each faction for each edition, as Space Marines are always first inline, we got Centurions. They are just awful, from the models to the way they were shoehorned into the background, and also due to serving no role that was lacking. That is the sort of change I don't like, it adds nothing of value and just cheapens the overall product.

If those creative resources had been focused on fleshing out a previously mentioned race, say the Hrudd, that would have been much better, and kept within the pre established background, while also advancing the game.

centurions where 6th edition not 5th edition. 5th edition IIRC gave us vanguard and sternguard veterns. Also yes GW was putting out new units for an army when a new codex came out. they've shifted that but they still need to put out new units for popular armies. (I've said it before but space Marines pay for everyone else's army) thing is had GW not gave use Primaris Marines, Centurions would be the way of the future. GW's a company first and foremost.

"Being a company first and foremost" isn't an issue. Obviously they have to figure out how to sell more models. There's nothing inherently wrong with adding models.

The WAY in which models are added, and WHAT models are added is where issues arise. I don't remember anybody complaining about Sternguard and Vanguard being introduced. Nor do I remember anybody having any issues with the Land Raider Crusader when it was first introduced, or the Land Raider Redeemer either. Did anyone complain about the Hunter and Stalker kit? It should be obvious that some additions/changes are more of a stickler than others.

Centurions stand out as being a less-than-ideal model launch in terms of community reception.

ohh I agree, Cneturions are awkward a bit silly etc. sadly however had Primaris not come out the centurion likely would have been the new norm. Basicly at the end of the day GW had run out of stuff they could bring into the Space Marine Range, this was IMHO getting obvious. So GW had two choices. 1: stop making Space Marines save the odd replacement kit for old models, or 2: essentially relaunch space marines.

and 1 was NEVER going to happen

Primaris are an obvious move, I agree. I just find it a little tasteless.

That said, it's not exactly clear to me that new kits for the Space Marines couldn't have been done. The Scouts and Terminators are pretty awful compared to current plastics. Imagine if Terminators had gotten some sweet new kits and some rules that made them competitive, with the new option of fielding an all Terminator army. I also recall that people went "truescale crazy" for a while, and also had a fit when the Deathwatch were released and stood a whole mm or two taller than the current Tacticals.

I honestly believe there are plenty of people looking for excuses to buy more Space Marines. Maybe that wouldn't have sold as many kits as the new Primaris line, but people looooove Space Marines, for better or for worse.

Personally I might have purchased Centurions if they didn't look so stupid. Same thing with the Storm Raven. I just think the models are particularly juvenile.

So you're suggesting that they just keep on re-releasing old kits?

I'd rather have the Primaris range, personally. People are very much correct when they point out that the classic Astartes range was completed. It was actually overly bloated and full of unnecessary redundancies and duplicate units.

This "re-boot/refresh" will be very good in the long run.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Primaris are an obvious move, I agree. I just find it a little tasteless.

That said, it's not exactly clear to me that new kits for the Space Marines couldn't have been done. The Scouts and Terminators are pretty awful compared to current plastics. Imagine if Terminators had gotten some sweet new kits and some rules that made them competitive, with the new option of fielding an all Terminator army. I also recall that people went "truescale crazy" for a while, and also had a fit when the Deathwatch were released and stood a whole mm or two taller than the current Tacticals.

I honestly believe there are plenty of people looking for excuses to buy more Space Marines. Maybe that wouldn't have sold as many kits as the new Primaris line, but people looooove Space Marines, for better or for worse.

Personally I might have purchased Centurions if they didn't look so stupid. Same thing with the Storm Raven. I just think the models are particularly juvenile.

and how many assault, tactical and devestator kits have your purchased in the last 5 years? because those kits have all been revamped in the last 5 years. Did you go out and buy a TON of new tactical marines?

Before the new releases of Tac and Devs I had ton of older marines. I haven't bought a single box of the new dev kits and the only new tac kits I have were one that came in some sort of bundle.

Only time I imagine people "might" want to buy a new kit to upgrade is if it is upgrading from metal/resin to plastic or the new kit is just of such different variety that it is actually enticing(Dark Eldar 3rd to 5th edition, the new Craftworld jetbikes).

I think people overestimate the amount of kits people are willing to rebuy. Sure, there are a few whales who keep on buying kits endlessly, but there is also a legion of people who only buy and keep what they need. For the people who want things static just have kits only upgraded Games Workshop would have to be a much smaller business that would probably charge a higher premium for their kits if they were to keep them as is and in plastic.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Before the new releases of Tac and Devs I had ton of older marines. I haven't bought a single box of the new dev kits and the only new tac kits I have were one that came in some sort of bundle.

Only time I imagine people "might" want to buy a new kit to upgrade is if it is upgrading from metal/resin to plastic or the new kit is just of such different variety that it is actually enticing(Dark Eldar 3rd to 5th edition, the new Craftworld jetbikes).

I think people overestimate the amount of kits people are willing to rebuy. Sure, there are a few whales who keep on buying kits endlessly, but there is also a legion of people who only buy and keep what they need. For the people who want things static just have kits only upgraded Games Workshop would have to be a much smaller business that would probably charge a higher premium for their kits if they were to keep them as is and in plastic.

exactly. people will buy upgraded kits if they need em sure. but most of the time they'd have bought the old kit. I mean if the kits are a MASSIVE increase in quality sure someone might buy new stuff (the new CSM kits are a great example) but yeah, by and alrge they won't. As it is since I got into 40K I've seen 4 seperate tactical squad boxes (the one active with 5th edition, the one introduced in 6th edition, the MK3 and the MK4.) and.. there's little real differance. I like having the MK3 and MK4 armor and it feels distinct, but the only change from the tac squad boxes where the inclusion of grav guns.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Before the new releases of Tac and Devs I had ton of older marines. I haven't bought a single box of the new dev kits and the only new tac kits I have were one that came in some sort of bundle.

Only time I imagine people "might" want to buy a new kit to upgrade is if it is upgrading from metal/resin to plastic or the new kit is just of such different variety that it is actually enticing(Dark Eldar 3rd to 5th edition, the new Craftworld jetbikes).

I think people overestimate the amount of kits people are willing to rebuy. Sure, there are a few whales who keep on buying kits endlessly, but there is also a legion of people who only buy and keep what they need. For the people who want things static just have kits only upgraded Games Workshop would have to be a much smaller business that would probably charge a higher premium for their kits if they were to keep them as is and in plastic.

exactly. people will buy upgraded kits if they need em sure. but most of the time they'd have bought the old kit. I mean if the kits are a MASSIVE increase in quality sure someone might buy new stuff (the new CSM kits are a great example) but yeah, by and alrge they won't. As it is since I got into 40K I've seen 4 seperate tactical squad boxes (the one active with 5th edition, the one introduced in 6th edition, the MK3 and the MK4.) and.. there's little real differance. I like having the MK3 and MK4 armor and it feels distinct, but the only change from the tac squad boxes where the inclusion of grav guns.

If you take that idea and run with it the only logical thing to do with 40k is to have a constant churn of new armies with no ongoing support for anything over a month old or just keep rehashing marines so that people have to buy a whole new army every year or two. Hey that sounds like AoS

Well no. The problem is that the classic Astartes were very much a complete and bloated range.

The same isn't true for Primaris or other factions.

SeanDrake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Before the new releases of Tac and Devs I had ton of older marines. I haven't bought a single box of the new dev kits and the only new tac kits I have were one that came in some sort of bundle.

Only time I imagine people "might" want to buy a new kit to upgrade is if it is upgrading from metal/resin to plastic or the new kit is just of such different variety that it is actually enticing(Dark Eldar 3rd to 5th edition, the new Craftworld jetbikes).

I think people overestimate the amount of kits people are willing to rebuy. Sure, there are a few whales who keep on buying kits endlessly, but there is also a legion of people who only buy and keep what they need. For the people who want things static just have kits only upgraded Games Workshop would have to be a much smaller business that would probably charge a higher premium for their kits if they were to keep them as is and in plastic.

exactly. people will buy upgraded kits if they need em sure. but most of the time they'd have bought the old kit. I mean if the kits are a MASSIVE increase in quality sure someone might buy new stuff (the new CSM kits are a great example) but yeah, by and alrge they won't. As it is since I got into 40K I've seen 4 seperate tactical squad boxes (the one active with 5th edition, the one introduced in 6th edition, the MK3 and the MK4.) and.. there's little real differance. I like having the MK3 and MK4 armor and it feels distinct, but the only change from the tac squad boxes where the inclusion of grav guns.

If you take that idea and run with it the only logical thing to do with 40k is to have a constant churn of new armies with no ongoing support for anything over a month old or just keep rehashing marines so that people have to buy a whole new army every year or two. Hey that sounds like AoS

no, because some armies can be expanded. the logical thing to do would be to introduce new armies, in conjuction with welcome expansions to existing ranges. which is more or less what GW's been doing for 40k

If you take that idea and run with it the only logical thing to do with 40k is to have a constant churn of new armies with no ongoing support for anything over a month old or just keep rehashing marines so that people have to buy a whole new army every year or two. Hey that sounds like AoS

Sounds like you don't play AoS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

exactly. people will buy upgraded kits if they need em sure. but most of the time they'd have bought the old kit. I mean if the kits are a MASSIVE increase in quality sure someone might buy new stuff (the new CSM kits are a great example) but yeah, by and alrge they won't. As it is since I got into 40K I've seen 4 seperate tactical squad boxes (the one active with 5th edition, the one introduced in 6th edition, the MK3 and the MK4.) and.. there's little real differance. I like having the MK3 and MK4 armor and it feels distinct, but the only change from the tac squad boxes where the inclusion of grav guns.

People also don't realize that the second hand market for some of those lines is huge. So people can buy the new fancy kit for top dollar or buy the same unit, but older kit, for dirt cheap. Many of the old core kits are like glitter: it's all over the place.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Primaris are an obvious move, I agree. I just find it a little tasteless.

That said, it's not exactly clear to me that new kits for the Space Marines couldn't have been done. The Scouts and Terminators are pretty awful compared to current plastics. Imagine if Terminators had gotten some sweet new kits and some rules that made them competitive, with the new option of fielding an all Terminator army. I also recall that people went "truescale crazy" for a while, and also had a fit when the Deathwatch were released and stood a whole mm or two taller than the current Tacticals.

I honestly believe there are plenty of people looking for excuses to buy more Space Marines. Maybe that wouldn't have sold as many kits as the new Primaris line, but people looooove Space Marines, for better or for worse.

Personally I might have purchased Centurions if they didn't look so stupid. Same thing with the Storm Raven. I just think the models are particularly juvenile.

and how many assault, tactical and devestator kits have your purchased in the last 5 years? because those kits have all been revamped in the last 5 years. Did you go out and buy a TON of new tactical marines?

I did. I've bought at least 6 of the recent Tactical boxes, 2-3 Assaults, and maybe 4 of the new Devastator kits. I'm still planning on picking up a few more Assault kits. I build my army out of those, because they're still minimalistic in decoration compared to things like the Sternguard/Vanguard bling-marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
So you're suggesting that they just keep on re-releasing old kits?

I'm saying that's not necessarily a dead end, especially when some people were so eager to purchase Primaris models and then convert them to traditional marines. You could have increased the scale slightly on the older kits, advertised how cool they looked in comparison to the current human-scale models like Guardsmen or Cultists, and probably done fairly well with them. New Terminator kits and better rules would have gone plenty far, I think. Imo much of the resurgence of interest into the game was the change in marketing strategy, community engagement, and a refreshing rule set that wiped away the inaccessible state of 7th, and the tension brought about by the AOS fiasco. It's unclear to me how much interest in the game was brought about purely because of Primaris releases.

Other races, like Eldar, have gotten along pretty well with just releasing and re-releasing older kits. People have been clamoring for plastic Aspect Warriors for at least a decade now.

That said, Marines can't really be equated with any other faction in terms of driving sales, so Marines remain a special case.

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Primaris are an obvious move, I agree. I just find it a little tasteless.

That said, it's not exactly clear to me that new kits for the Space Marines couldn't have been done. The Scouts and Terminators are pretty awful compared to current plastics. Imagine if Terminators had gotten some sweet new kits and some rules that made them competitive, with the new option of fielding an all Terminator army. I also recall that people went "truescale crazy" for a while, and also had a fit when the Deathwatch were released and stood a whole mm or two taller than the current Tacticals.

I honestly believe there are plenty of people looking for excuses to buy more Space Marines. Maybe that wouldn't have sold as many kits as the new Primaris line, but people looooove Space Marines, for better or for worse.

Personally I might have purchased Centurions if they didn't look so stupid. Same thing with the Storm Raven. I just think the models are particularly juvenile.

and how many assault, tactical and devestator kits have your purchased in the last 5 years? because those kits have all been revamped in the last 5 years. Did you go out and buy a TON of new tactical marines?

I did. I've bought at least 6 of the recent Tactical boxes, 2-3 Assaults, and maybe 4 of the new Devastator kits. I'm still planning on picking up a few more Assault kits.

It is true that some people will always buy new kits and grow their armies. But that is probably not the majority. I know several people who still only run space marines and they are all original metal models, A lot of players build their army and once its done they just keep playing with it. Sure that is not the same type of person who probably plays tournaments or posts on dakkadakka all of the time, but they are probably more the majority than us. More common I would say in my experience for space marines is the player who bought 3 rhinos, 3 razerbacks, 3 drop pods, 6 tac squads, 15-20 terminators and one box of each release. those same players once centurians came out pretty much had everything they would ever need in their space marine line. Most of those same players are now picking up boxes of primaris to expand the army as they see them as new units with a major difference. That is good for GW business model as evident by their recent record profits.

^Let me be clear, I am in no way saying that the Primaris line is a bad business decision. Far from it, I think it was very clever.

But it should also be clear that the recent profits for GW are not purely Primaris driven.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Let me be clear, I am in no way saying that the Primaris line is a bad business decision. Far from it, I think it was very clever.

But it should also be clear that the recent profits for GW are not purely Primaris driven.

well yea, they are releasing a ton of new kits for other armies and whole new armies/ listening to community feedback sometimes. Thier return to using social media and responding to rules questions has gone a long way to improve things. I do think Primaris are a factor though. and it is smart how they are offering boxes where a lot of players are also getting chaos marine armies with primaris kits unavailable by themselves. Heck I have a bunch of deathguard now plus black legion and even more eldar than i had before from box sets this edition. I have not yet expanded those but I usually grab a kit a month and I am closely getting to the point where expanding deathguard will be happening.

It's true, I think that GW has been knocking it out of the park in most cases. There are a few things that bug me, and Primaris is one of them, though I can't begrudge GW for making the decisions that they've been making.

The Primaris thing is just a particular bother for a couple reasons.

A: GW is potentially signalling to me that my SM army as I've been collecting, is soon to be invalidated. Now, I know this has happened to other collections, sort of. . . for example, the All Terminator Deathwing Army that might have been available in one particular edition due to a character unlock (or something), and then is suddenly not playable a few years later as the rules move on. Certain niche builds have always run the risk of getting a "no-rules" treatment. But my collection is specifically based on units that were around since basically the dawn of 40K. Tactical Squads, Rhinos, Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders/Speeders, etc. the very basics of the Marine line. I really do not like the idea that THOSE units might go away.

B: Primaris rules, the sort of character of them, are really. . . simple? Basic? Crude? They come off as just "more-marine-ier-marines" in a way that merely doubles down on the most basic interpretation of marines. Bigger, tougher, etc. They seem like meatheads to me, and I really dislike that they upset what I think of as an old balance between the line-troopers of the various factions. An Aspect Warrior was roughly equivalent to a Marine, except more specialized. A Necron Warrior was roughly equivalent to a Marine, with a Necron-twist. Things like that. The Primaris statline throws that all out, and I hate it.

 stonehorse wrote:
This is why the new lore is a mess, as it is forgets that the old lore wasn't a dead end.

Um, no. It was. Stale, dead end mess that had a single year, 999 M41 see more war than ANY millennium before it, because that was the only year where anything was allowed to happen. You had Ultramarines or Blood Angels in like 20 war zones each, pretty much crushing any semblance of verisimilitude, you had Black Templar characters teleporting all over the galaxy in minutes to actually be in 5 places at once, GW even had to invent excuse 'it's all propaganda and lies' because the inconsistencies and contradictory events in a single year piled up that high. That pile of was already collapsing under its own weight for at least a decade, and the only way forward left before it all becomes comical was opening up M42.

 stonehorse wrote:
No, I like change, what I don't like is change for the sake of change and/or to sell new models. Case in point, when 5th edition hit the shelves Space Marines were already a complete product line, however GW's policy is to add something new to each faction for each edition, as Space Marines are always first inline, we got Centurions. They are just awful, from the models to the way they were shoehorned into the background, and also due to serving no role that was lacking. That is the sort of change I don't like, it adds nothing of value and just cheapens the overall product.

And this is doubly wrong because A) centurions were not added in 5th edition, B) 5th edition was one of the most brilliant and creative fleshing out of Space Marine range ever, with boring, bland "veterans" being given new roles, wargear and rules mirroring the tactical/assault split, new characters like master of the forge and chapter master being added, role swaps allowing you to represent different companies/chapters (bike troops, anyone?), special characters (with tons of flavor changes to better represent their chapters) being added to other SM successors as well, etc etc, it's telling 5th edition book saw dozen different army compositions being viable and played, from drop pod company to mechanized assault force or dreadwing, a feat no other edition managed to match...

And all of the above required zero new models and even explicitly told you to get kitbashing instead. Gee, what shoehorning!

 Insectum7 wrote:
It's true, my interest in Necrons dropped mightily with their 5th Ed codex. It was like a cartoon compared to the previous one.

Yes, you could still make an army based off the older lore, but the gravitas as a faction died for me.

What gravitas? Oldcrons were boring, one dimensional cardboard cutouts that could be summed up by two words: metal tyranids. Or skynet ripoffs. Such creativity, much wow. You could make army of bland, static metal skeletons with zero character or bland, static metal skeletons with some rust on them, led by something that was supposed to be a god (funny how people complaining about primarchs these days forgot that part...) but had pretty terrible stats on par with tyranid mooks. Oh, and you couldn't even make up your own 'god' as only two were left alive. Oops.

Newcrons were from the start supposed to be ultimate exercise in being 'your guys' allowing you to make any fluff you want (even oldcron-like), patched up inconsistencies (why Emperor was so dumb trying to replicate webway when he could just have asked dragon of mars for plans of necron mega-FTL and called it a day?) and stupidity in their fluff, plus expansion of their army from just metal skeletons (with variants like skeletons with really long fingers, or skeletons on surfboards) to a coherent, fully fleshed out faction. How is any of that worse than the oldcrons, I have no idea.

And funny you guys mention 3rd edition Necron book, because it was downright comical, full of immersions breaking moments. Like hyping up that one super-duper-mega gun with impossibly small energy source, which, if you flipped to the end of the book, was equivalent of lascannon, while being bigger and cruder looking. Wow, such advanced technology! Oh, and the 'impossibly small energy source'? Flip over to Cadian lascannon team, and you will see IG mooks in fact use smaller batteries than 'impossibly' advanced Necrons to power up smaller and more powerful guns than 'impossibly' advanced gun carried by half of a skeleton on a skateboard. Um...

^Snark much?

Those "weapons" lacked the strength the technology would indicate, true. Because they weren't weapons. They were implements to harvest life-energy to beam to their living, reality-defying gods.

I've long pointed out I think most of the rest of the Primarchs are coming. Several of them are only supposed to return in Darkest Hour/Wolf/EndTimes prophetical apocalypses. Of course, nobody says how long that time lasts. They're not going to kill the whole world and start anew with Age of Sanguinius. They could bring everyone back and milk it for a few decades before they reset the Armageddon Clock.

Breton wrote:
I've long pointed out I think most of the rest of the Primarchs are coming. Several of them are only supposed to return in Darkest Hour/Wolf/EndTimes prophetical apocalypses. Of course, nobody says how long that time lasts. They're not going to kill the whole world and start anew with Age of Sanguinius. They could bring everyone back and milk it for a few decades before they reset the Armageddon Clock.

alternatively the Primarchs return for an end times event, they play it up all big and the Primarchs and reforged legions prevail. "saving" the Emperor who stays on the golden throne and basically leaves the galaxy as it is.

Ah, I see someone's wheeled out the old "stale" argument.

10,000 years of history to play in on untold thousands of worlds with trillions of inhabitants is "stale"? Ten. Thousand. Years. This is longer than recorded human history so far. Do you know how much scope that gives you?

Instead we get a shoehorned in "story" to no-one asked for (well, someone did as apparently they have no imagination to make their own...) that revolves around a few big characters and no-one else. Now that is stale. 40k was a setting, a fething massive one with the scope for untold amounts of potential stories to be told in it. Who gives a feth if they're not "canon", we got along perfectly well with our own campaigns for the last 2 decades, what makes it any different now?

I'm unclear how the latter is more 'stale' than the former. There is just as much room either way.

Voss wrote:
I'm unclear how the latter is more 'stale' than the former. There is just as much room either way.

The volume (loudness), emphasis, and focus.

There have been large "stories" in 40k before. This one feels different.

Voss wrote:
I'm unclear how the latter is more 'stale' than the former. There is just as much room either way.

Because you've condensed down a massive galaxy spanning saga to just few dozen characters and it makes the world feel smaller and more claustrophobic as a result.

 Argive wrote:
The emprah dying and ascending to some sort of proper godhood would be the next move IMO. At this point might as well...

The Grim dark feeling of being stuck in the dark ages standing on an eternal praecipe of Galaxy wide Armageddon is well and truly gone. We are now spoon fed the narrative and time line is being pushed forward and its really weird because we are talking millenia worth of culture and the never changing imperial behemoth which is stuck in its grim dark ways changing almost overnight. I'm not sure How I feel about it. I liked 40k because it allowed the mind to wonder and get imaginative. Now we don't get to wonder. We are being told what is happening...

Im sure GW would feth it up and make it so that storm casts can appear in 40k because space marines =$$$...By that point its a wrap for a huge portion of the fanbase so perhaps better they don't do it lol.

No one sees change in history coming, either. Sometimes it IS very fast. I don't find the narrative of 30K-40K credible anyway. Such a period of stagnation is likely not possible for a variety of reasons.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm unclear how the latter is more 'stale' than the former. There is just as much room either way.

Because you've condensed down a massive galaxy spanning saga to just few dozen characters and it makes the world feel smaller and more claustrophobic as a result.

Who's 'you?' The massive galaxy is still there. Even if GW were focusing on a few dozen characters in their novels (which they aren't) it has feth all to do with anyone playing the game or doing their own thing.
Don't wrap yourself in chains and claim its somebody else's fault.

Such as?

You know you can post more than a single line per post, right?

French revolution. I like short posts.

Voss wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm unclear how the latter is more 'stale' than the former. There is just as much room either way.

Because you've condensed down a massive galaxy spanning saga to just few dozen characters and it makes the world feel smaller and more claustrophobic as a result.

Who's 'you?' The massive galaxy is still there. Even if GW were focusing on a few dozen characters in their novels (which they aren't) it has feth all to do with anyone playing the game or doing their own thing.
Don't wrap yourself in chains and claim its somebody else's fault.

Don't be so obtuse. You know exactly who "you" refers to in that context (GW).

It IS GW's fault though. They've come in "armed with canon" and started up a storyline that was never there to begin with. 40k was a setting. A setting to make your own stories in, occasionally GW made "official" ones such as Armageddon and EoT campaigns but they were added to the mix and never changed with a march of time. You could still do your own thing and not be constricted by canon. Now, the whole storyline thing would work IF GW had made 40k a storyline from the very beginning, you see it work in WMH and AoS as the writers knew what they wanted out of it from the get go. You can't just pull up a static setting and make a story out of it with a few dozen characters (like, why is Gulliman everywhere? Even though he is a Primarch he should be a insignificant blip in the grand scheme of things) in an unfathomably massive setting. Space is HUGE, indescribably so, yet we get the same characters bumping into one another again and again.