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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






So that begs the question though, is the Vindicator given a new "named" cannon now, or will all Demolishers become that? It would make the Guard one immensely powerful...and thus continue to make the Vindicator look like ass by comparison. Is the Vindicator still 125 points?

 
   
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 Elbows wrote:
So that begs the question though, is the Vindicator given a new "named" cannon now, or will all Demolishers become that? It would make the Guard one immensely powerful...and thus continue to make the Vindicator look like ass by comparison. Is the Vindicator still 125 points?

I guess they could just handwave it as "the Astartes ones are better than the mass-produced ones the Guard get" or something.
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






I would just upgrade the Guard one, honestly. The demolisher was the same template as the battle cannon. If it's an issue, bump the points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/11 19:47:49


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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I'm glad I built Intercessor squads with all three types of bolters now.

Centurions really needed that extra wound, but they really didn't need Dreads getting another points reduction. Hopefully the Devastator version also got a points cut along with the Assault ones. Gravis needed the extra wound too, and they both are happy about getting the extra attacks.

The Vindicator cannon really needed going up to a straight Heavy d6, that's a very good change. That thing having fewer shots against the targets you most wanted to hit with an S10 was always kind of baffling.

Suppressors staying as straight 3-man units is surprising. Kind of expected it on Eliminators though due to Shrouding.

Digging that Infiltrators don't have to go up to six men for the Helix Adept. It's not actually a big deal game-wise but it was messing up my squad numbering scheme. Also digging that the Incursors come in the same box set.

Point reductions for Tacs, Assault Marines, and Sternguard! Huzzah!

Sad that the Phobos warlord traits are now restricted to effecting Phobos units, although I half expected that to turn out to be an oversite. At least we got Recitation of Focus to partially make up for the loss.

Oh, Whirlwinds being able to double-shot but only if they can't see the target is lolzy. "Sir, we can't see the target." "FIRE EVERYTHING!" "Sir, I have visual on the target". "Ok, now take careful aim and don't waste ammunition..."
   
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Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.

I still need confirmation on how named Characters with the successors work though, especially now that we got Gabriel Angelos without the need for Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics existing in the codex.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.

I still need confirmation on how named Characters with the successors work though, especially now that we got Gabriel Angelos without the need for Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics existing in the codex.


The writeup seems to indicate a 2 point reduction coming from the SI bolter being free. So 14 points, which is superb value.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.

I still need confirmation on how named Characters with the successors work though, especially now that we got Gabriel Angelos without the need for Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics existing in the codex.



well the Blood ravens chapter tactic can be whatever you want it to be, per-index astartes. (they literally say use other tactics if you feel it fits them better) the pistol is now a general relic in the book, so the one thing blood ravens get is the chief librarian strat. So Blood Ravens are the ideal chapter to play if you wanna play a sucessor chapter lead by a Libby

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.

I still need confirmation on how named Characters with the successors work though, especially now that we got Gabriel Angelos without the need for Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics existing in the codex.


The writeup seems to indicate a 2 point reduction coming from the SI bolter being free. So 14 points, which is superb value.

That's honestly a bit broken to me.

Did I already mention Lias Bomb? Bet I did like 5× already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.

I still need confirmation on how named Characters with the successors work though, especially now that we got Gabriel Angelos without the need for Blood Ravens Chapter Tactics existing in the codex.



well the Blood ravens chapter tactic can be whatever you want it to be, per-index astartes. (they literally say use other tactics if you feel it fits them better) the pistol is now a general relic in the book, so the one thing blood ravens get is the chief librarian strat. So Blood Ravens are the ideal chapter to play if you wanna play a sucessor chapter lead by a Libby

That's not a bad thing. The previous tactic they were given was plain garbage. They'd still keep the latter part for fluff sake but I wonder what to add to it as a compliment?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 00:28:29


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.


The real question on Sternguard was "is a SIB as valuable as a Stormbolter?" Before the Doctrines I'd have probably said close enough, after the doctrines I'd say probably not. After a point AP starts hitting diminishing returns, going from 0 to 1 on an S4 is big, going from 2 to 3 on an S4 isn't so much. And SIBs cost more than just their points because you really want to use the strat on them and the CP pool is limited.

Making SIBs free might have been a step too far, I guess we'll see.
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

Blood Ravens can be whatever they damn well please. So that is good because the Wound roll Chapter Tactic is way too situational. Knowledge is Power is pretty decent, especially when combined with their Chief Librarian Stratagem. Take a much better tactic to go with it.

I am definitely liking the fact Sternguard went down in price. I probably still won't use them since I have six squads of Intercessors, but I still like them. I might need to combine some Sternguard bits with a squad of Intercessors to make a unit of Veteran Intercessors.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I did hear WinterSEO say the Vindicator was d6 shots, but he said it so despairingly I thought the Vindivator was already d6! I will be adding that to the sheet


It is, but only against 5 or more models. Now it pumps out 3.5 lascannon+ shots for 125 and T8.

If you can get linebreaker off it's a steal.


Lemme tell yeah as an army that has had a 125pt d6 shot T8 tank for a while now, it's not worth the headache or the heartache. Just take something consistent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Sternguard got ANOTHER point reduction?

15 compared to the 12 Tactical I'm still all over Sternguard. Sternguard Lias Bomb still reigns supreme in my book.


The real question on Sternguard was "is a SIB as valuable as a Stormbolter?" Before the Doctrines I'd have probably said close enough, after the doctrines I'd say probably not. After a point AP starts hitting diminishing returns, going from 0 to 1 on an S4 is big, going from 2 to 3 on an S4 isn't so much. And SIBs cost more than just their points because you really want to use the strat on them and the CP pool is limited.

Making SIBs free might have been a step too far, I guess we'll see.



Sternguard might actually be viable now. Maybe. I'm not 100% sure though because they were pretty crap outside of deathwatch, Lias or otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 02:17:32


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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Ravens can be whatever they damn well please. So that is good because the Wound roll Chapter Tactic is way too situational. Knowledge is Power is pretty decent, especially when combined with their Chief Librarian Stratagem. Take a much better tactic to go with it.

I am definitely liking the fact Sternguard went down in price. I probably still won't use them since I have six squads of Intercessors, but I still like them. I might need to combine some Sternguard bits with a squad of Intercessors to make a unit of Veteran Intercessors.


I think the best, in terms of fitting the chapter is to run knowledge is power combined with Master artisans (reflecting the ravens tendancy to hoard relics)

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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Confessor Of Sins




 Daedalus81 wrote:
bort wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
bort wrote:
What is considered Unaligned to not interfere with the doctrine bonus? Assassins? Anything else?
Not Assassins. Fortifications.

But you can add an Assassin via the strat.


Oh right, fortifications.

So an Execution Force would break doctrines, but using the 2cp strat to take 1 would not?


Correct. There is also some other unaligned BSF models that no one uses.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
not sure assasins are needed with the new sniper marines.


If you don't take Tigurius then it might benefit to be able to keep a Callidus around.


This is actually not correct. Combat Doctrines state that you can only benefit from combat doctrines if every unit in your ARMY(NOT on your army LIST)except Servitors and things that are unaligned(which Assassins are NOT unaligned) have the combat doctrine rule.

So RAW, you can use the strat to set aside the points for an assassin without breaking doctrines, but the second it hits the table, your doctrines shut off.

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In My Lab

ERJAK wrote:
This is actually not correct. Combat Doctrines state that you can only benefit from combat doctrines if every unit in your ARMY(NOT on your army LIST)except Servitors and things that are unaligned(which Assassins are NOT unaligned) have the combat doctrine rule.

So RAW, you can use the strat to set aside the points for an assassin without breaking doctrines, but the second it hits the table, your doctrines shut off.
Really? That stinks. I own all four Assassins.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 JNAProductions wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
This is actually not correct. Combat Doctrines state that you can only benefit from combat doctrines if every unit in your ARMY(NOT on your army LIST)except Servitors and things that are unaligned(which Assassins are NOT unaligned) have the combat doctrine rule.

So RAW, you can use the strat to set aside the points for an assassin without breaking doctrines, but the second it hits the table, your doctrines shut off.
Really? That stinks. I own all four Assassins.


It could get FAQed either way depending on what GW's intent is for the stratagem, but atm RAW is pretty clear that assassins shut off doctrines.

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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I'm fine with no assasins for Marines, it forces a choice,

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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I am cool with incentive to go monodex.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in us
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 alextroy wrote:

GW has already stated there will be an FAQ at the time of Codex release to allow you to use all those Space Marines goodies and add Shock Assault for the non-Codex Astartes.


Oh I know. My point is - they then wrote the codex to specifically prohibit what they said you could do, when they could have put those instructions in the codex instead. The instructions for how to use the new Codex SM with the Non-Codex Chapters should have been in the book, not a PDF to be named later.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User






But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


except centurions are not a DA/BA/SW unit and are not intended to be. the Primaris stuff on the other hand..

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Made in es
Been Around the Block





I truly find Sternguard interesting now. I was a Vanguard Veteran guy, but with Sternguard during tactical you need to realize you are firing Power Sword attacks now. S4 AP-3. That's mean

As someone else said, Lias BOMB.

It would be amazing that the two models included in the RG supplement are Shrike and Lias.
   
Made in ie
Fresh-Faced New User






Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


This is assuming that you want to add new models to your army. If you just want the few updates that carry across all marine chapters you're hardly going to buy a whole new book. The DA/BA/SW aren't a supplement to SM (yet anyway). There's a difference between getting the new SM codex to add optional units to your list and being required to get the SM codex to play your current army.

   
Made in gb
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


except centurions are not a DA/BA/SW unit and are not intended to be. the Primaris stuff on the other hand..


To be fair the GW previews initially said all chapters got access to the full generic marines book. The even called out Space Wolf Stormravens and Dark Angel Centurions as being an option, it was then redacted off the articles at a later date.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 09:53:43


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


except centurions are not a DA/BA/SW unit and are not intended to be. the Primaris stuff on the other hand..


To be fair the GW previews initially said all chapters got access to the full generic marines book. The even called out Space Wolf Stormravens and Dark Angel Centurions as being an option, it was then redacted off the articles at a later date.


yeah, my guess is that was a internal communication issue.

"ohh and tom while writing the article mention that the stuff in this codex can be used by space wolves etc" the person who says that is intending the new stuff but tom interprets it to mean everythin

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


except centurions are not a DA/BA/SW unit and are not intended to be. the Primaris stuff on the other hand..


Did they change their mind? Wasn't that one of the things everyone was talking about, that DA/BA/ETC can now take Cents and what not? If they're not buying the book, why do they need the PDF for how taking things from this book works with their army?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Sentineil wrote:
But then you'd have to buy the SM codex just to get shock assault on your DA?

FAQing the existing codexes makes more sense than publishing it in something you might not intend to buy


Why aren't they intended to buy it again? Are they expected to download a Centurion datasheet with a code from their DA codex? They are intended to buy this codex. Between points changes, and new units this is where they're supposed to get their shared units.


except centurions are not a DA/BA/SW unit and are not intended to be. the Primaris stuff on the other hand..


Did they change their mind? Wasn't that one of the things everyone was talking about, that DA/BA/ETC can now take Cents and what not? If they're not buying the book, why do they need the PDF for how taking things from this book works with their army?



I explained it already. the new stuff that BA/SW/DA will be able to take will be the new primaris, infiltrators, incursors, impulsors. eliminators etc.


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in ca
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Ottawa, Canada

Are Stratagems not found in the new codex still usable? Killshot and Linebreaker don't appear to be in the new book.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Interesting...no wound marine units on a 1 or 2 as a successor trait.

That seems damn good.


eh.. i mean it only matters for str 8 or above. That is what would be wounding on a 2 anyway, so not sure here how good this is. improved ~16.7% survivability vs str 8 or higher. seems like the iron hands ignore wounds on a 6 is just better for overall survivability.

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 Orodhen wrote:
Are Stratagems not found in the new codex still usable? Killshot and Linebreaker don't appear to be in the new book.


No.
   
 
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